jkpeace wrote:

 He even went to counseling to try to figure out what child custody arrangement would be best for our children.  The counselor convinced him that 50/50 would Not be best for our children.  Sadly, he agreed.  A narcissist wouldn't have done that.

First, jkpeace, I am in no way suggesting that your H is an N. From what you have written it sounds as if your H is truly trying to do what is in the best interest of your children and following the counselors advice clearly illustrates that.   However I want to address a subject you brought up, that is "Children and the Narcissist" for others on the board who may be trying to navigate divorce, custody and visitation with an actual Narcissist... 

My experience with my N was the exact opposite. Narcissist will give up the kids.  Children will be retained by the N so long as they serve a purpose.  The hard core NPD gives the illusion of being the quintessential parent but truly the day in day out effort, burden, and expense of being a full time parent is more work than the N wants to put out.  To the true N, the world revolves around them and there is little room in their world for children who have age-appropriate developmental narcism.  They don't need a rival for attention and it has been suggested by some experts that the N secretly abhors children for their neediness and narcissim.  If you are divorcing an N, they may be very happy to turn over their rights and visitation, if the cost outweighs the benefit.  This does not mean they will give it all up easily and they may fight you tooth and nail, but in the long run the N has little stamina and endurance to be connected to others unless they receive adulation and Narcissistic Supply in return.  An N will happily allow you to raise their children and do all the work.  After all, we should all be happy to serve them.

And I was happy to raise the kids myself because at that time it was believed that NPD was purely a learned behavior. Â

Kel, your post made me chuckle.  I was the exact opposite.  In the end I knew my H was a Narcissist because our marriage counselor told me.  But I did not know about him being on the Down-Low for several more years.  I remember devouring a book on NPD. It was not an easy read, but it helped me navigate the full depth of narcism he was unleashing.  One Chapter was titled "The Gay Narcissist".  I was so very grateful to be able to skip that chapter because he was not gay!   I was certain of it.  Ha ha ha!

Séan wrote:

And being married to a woman who continued to love me unconditionally while I so hated myself made me see red. I just want to lash out. I wanted to make things so bad that she'd leave me. I didn't deserve her and hated her for it. I made her life hell for a time. 
 

Sean, I have not read other posts here on this thread and so I am that pesky person jumping into the middle of the movie asking questions...but...

Why couldn't you detach from your W with kindness and love instead of hate?   I am curious as my X did the same.

Steve, thank you for the confirmation.  Yes, JV was there in the earliest days too along with jj and Patti.  Your post made me smile remembering the "usuals", all people I have never met but who have made such a difference in my life.  Amazing amazing people who let it all hang out and through the pain made lemonade out of lemons.  Although we may fight from time to time, for me the good outweighs the bad. Hopefully someday I will be able to convey my thanks in person.  But til then, please pass my gratitude on to all. - WT

PS - get some sleep, man.

Here is a story of a couple in love who worked out all the particulars of a MOM.  My male BFF is a gay man.  We met after I divorced my GIDXH and I had established my new life.  We bonded over a work project and found that we had many interests and hobbies in common.  When I quip that being with my X was never like being with your gay best friend, my relationship with my BFF is what I am referring to.

So my BFF has another dear dear friend who is a Str8 woman.  They adore and love each other and have done so for decades. They are the perfect match on every single level except that he is gay and she is straight.  They have talked at length about a possible future MOM in their Golden Years in the event that neither one of them finds the love that they are looking for. They would provide all forms of companionship to each other with the exception of sex and each would be free to engage in sexual relationships outside of their MOM. This would be truly workable too because neither has any illusions of a sexual relationship with the other and they are both clear that although possible, they are not desirous of starting a family at this point in their lives.  They have discussed their plans with their families, children, and friends and absolutely no one batted an eye and it was universally accepted because it just works for them.

Fast forward 7 years and the straight woman found a straight man that curled her toes and as is commonly done, the straight woman dropped my BFF as fast as a hot potato, which he lovingly accepts and gets.  But that does not mean in the future, in their later years that they would not commit at that time. I think why the idea works is that they have set very clear and understandable boundaries and rules and they firmly know who they are sexually.

For me, I would have to be told up front, prior to a commitment that I was entering into a MOM for a MOM to work.  Although had my XH come to me earlier on in our marriage and proposed a MOM