Strategies for MOM's » Those in successful MOM long term: what worked, what didn't? » June 12, 2025 8:46 am |
Stickseason wrote:
We've also been reading some Dutchman and Samantha posts. Did they ever write the MOM First Aid or how to guide? I know every story is different, but we're learning from each one of them.
We tried to write some guidelines, but it felt too much like pressing a button A to achieve result B, while the reality is just too complicated.
However, we did create a website (in Dutch, but with an English option as well).
Some of the content reflects what we already posted on the OurPath forum. But it's more elaborate concerning Samantha's experience through it (ie. how her thinking developed from disclosure, to the place we eventually came in our marriage). Feel free to send us a message or mail us,
Strategies for MOM's » Five years after disclosure… » January 29, 2025 11:22 am |
Hi Tangled,
I'm glad you're doing so well! I do understand, once you worked things out, it moves to the background.
For us it's often because we are somewhat active in support for others in a MOM, we discuss the subject of sexual orientation regulary. But that's in another mode so to speak.
However, for us it's important to acknowledge the mixed orientation aspect of our relation too (in balance with what we are overall).
Afterall, effectively we're just an regular husband-wife couple, which is logical of course and no harm in that. But for my wife that could sometimes feel like her sexual orientation is put in a corner collecting dust. Unintentionaly it could become and feel like a subject and aspect that's invisible. That's not what we intended, we intentionally chose and went for acceptance of ourself and eachother. Rainbow flags or painting her hair blue won't do, that's not us and it's not about group statements. On the contrary, we are persons, we choose eachother.
For us it can be in other, less obvious, things to communicate this. Like my wife telling me she finds a woman attractive. It's not threatening to me, we're way beyond that, and it's also absolutely certain she won't act on those litle flings in any way. But it's an expression of her sexual orientation she shares privately with me.
Sometimes I don't get that, blunt as I (typical man) can be, I don't understand well enough that this is important to her. I could easily discard it like: "well, I often see a woman I think attractive too". But no, it's important I give it attention, a sort of acknowledgement of her sexual orientation, simply because that's part of who she is. But not to dwell on it further makeing it bigger than it ought to, after all it's nothing threatening, nor is it putting me down being her husband. But I think these small things prevent silence could feel like avoiding the subject.
It could well be in your situation this is less important than MOMs where the gay is more on th
Strategies for MOM's » Happy MOM for 20 Years and Going (Lesbian & Straight Man) » January 27, 2025 8:57 am |
We’ve been married for 40 years. Halfway through our marriage (we were about 40 years old), my wife discovered her attraction toward women and realized she’s lesbian.So technically, we’ve been in a MOM (mixed-orientation marriage) for 40 years, but we didn’t know it during the first half. In retrospect, there were, of course, signs, but at the time, we thought there were other causes for them.
It’s been over five years since my first post on this forum. You can read it here:
It should be clear that a happy (monogamous) mixed-orientation marriage is certainly possible. However, I don’t want to assert that every MOM will succeed. In most cases, it will not. But this is not due to random chance that can simply be expressed as a percentage. It depends on the people involved—their personalities, stance in life, the relationship, their history together, etc.
In our situation, there was no real closet or denial. My wife didn’t know she was same-sex attracted. She discovered it (i.e., fell in love with a woman) and, after making sure of her feelings, told me not long after that. She did not cheat and didn’t intend to do so. She didn’t want to break up our family (we had four children) and wanted to continue our marriage.
Nevertheless, it was no piece of cake—far from it! But it’s important to note the difference compared to other stories on the forum. Issues like cheating, denial, gaslighting, etc., are serious red flags indicating a successful MOM may not be an option. Even in our case, we had to go through several hard years to work it out. It wasn’t just the challenges my wife faced, but also the ones I faced as a straight spouse. It’s a joint venture, a process where each spouse has unique and different difficulties to overcome.
When I wrote about our life story five years ago, we had trouble naming the remarkable change in my wife’s sexual and emotional feelings. We wo
Strategies for MOM's » Stages MOMs Go Through Post-Disclosure » July 27, 2024 8:37 am |
Ordinary_guy,
I didn't invalidate your love for your wife, it's rather comparable to my own love for my wife. The problem of it in the MOM situation, is it mangles your being and feelings to bits over the years. It's like running into a brick wall, again and again and again. And it doesn't even make a dent in the wall. For me straight, I decided for total resolute acceptance, letting go of the consequences it had to me. This lifted me above the situation and the hurt. It's a strong decision, it's a choice from the heart, and my feelings followed it. The hurt deminished that resulted from being in a relation that isn't reciprocated the way it should be. I don't think it's unabtainable, but it's hard to make that decision. I had to hit rock bottom in my despair, before I was able to fully make that choice. I don't know if it's the only way, but I do know that going on like I had been going, hitting the wall, would have destroyed me, at the same time, it wouldn't have changed or improved anything in our relation nor for my wife.
As far as I can see, the only alternative would have been divorce. Like you I didn't want to do that. so, it's a dark dead end alley, the doors are locked and the surrounding walls are not giving in. The only way out is climbing up, at least there is sunlight and fresh air.
However the love that is really and actually wanting, is not yours, but your wifes. Assuming she's not an evil narcissist, her level of love for you is like good friendship. Well, if she's lesbian that makes sense, you're simply of the wrong gender to invoke other feelings and another kind of love in her. For her too it's a brick wall. Maybe with the difference she doesn't crash into it like you do, I think she's probably somewhat aware of it, but doesn't truly understand how it feels for you on the other side of this wall.
At that stage my wife thought our marriage was good enough, our relation was friendly and sort of sustainable. We kept sexual intimacy going, I h
Strategies for MOM's » Stages MOMs Go Through Post-Disclosure » July 25, 2024 12:09 pm |
Setting the Kinsey scale as the all important defining thing, is at the root of the problem. Because it's exactly this line of thought that undermines developing a MOM into a succesful and fulfilling relation. Western culture promote to assume sexual orientation is at the top of a persons identity. Everything else should be subject to that or else one isn't "authentic".
Well, if that's the case, good luck trying to make a MOM work...
I think it's destructive and degrading humans to mindless followers of their feelings. Sure, we all have feelings and attractions, but we're capable of reflection and making choices. Choices that are based on our whole identity. An identity which is composed of much more than described by a Kinsey scale. Sexual preference is only an attribute amongst many other attributes, and by no means deserves top position as description of identity.
People can choose to do so, and contemporary culture certainly promotes that, but it won't result in a happy and fulfilling MOM.
In my experience it was this aspect, that was the hardest to crack. For my wife as well as for me. My wife describes it like a monkey that has a grip on a banana in a jar. The grip prevents getting the banana, as well as the hand out of it, it's trapped.
Letting go of the grip, denying sexual preference the importance and position it had, freed her to have a different view. A view from love towards her husband, opening up unhindered emotional connection, which in turn formed the base of sexual connection.
Ordinary_guy I don't know your situation or what you seek to find here. I recently read a rather odd statement of yours in another topic in which you suggest that relations shouldn't need any effort (?). Have you been in that (or any) kind of long term relation I wonder? For that's not realistic, nor what is should be. Relations need an amount of effort, this enhances both and is mutual beneficial.
However, this is within limits, there should not be abuse or denial of the
Strategies for MOM's » Stages MOMs Go Through Post-Disclosure » July 24, 2024 12:11 pm |
To me, your relections sound not that sensible. As if all can be described and predicted by some well defined measure of "sexual orientation".
You're attempting to control something that is so much more complex and intricate than models. This reductionist approach is in a sense similar to fundemental christians ideas like "pray the gay away". No way! It's not that simple and confined, it's not grasped and controled by statistiscs nor dogma.
For example, the chances of winning the lottery can be calculated. Suppose there is a 30% chance of winning some money. But does this apply if I don't even buy a ticket? Obiously not, my chance of winning a price would be zero. So, It's not just a matter of chance, but it depends on the choices of people involved.
If people are inclined to follow contemporary cultural scripts, have no independent strong conviction or view on marriage, they will obviously be inclined to choose a path that submits to realizing their sexual preferences. No rocket science needed to deduce that. The same goes for straight spouses who think it's expected from them to follow these paths.
So what is it really that determines the outcome of a marriage when there is a sexual preference mismatch? It's not statistics nor lists, it's rather about:
Communication
Openness and honesty.
The meaning of real Love (with the capital, not hollywood style).
For the gay spouse: it means letting loose of the idol that sexual preference can be. In essence, it's setting priority: not sexual preference at the top, but set it somewhere down the line where it belongs. Because Love is the top, with your spouse at the focus. That kind of love holds beauty and value. So also no denial about sexual preference... it's there, among other things. (and... being accepted and acknowledged in that).
For the straight spouse you're challenged to total acceptance.
That certainly doesn't mean accepting any behaviour! But accepting your spouse as she/he is, with all th
Strategies for MOM's » Just found out my Fiancé is Gay. Can we make this work? » June 28, 2024 10:27 am |
You'll become aware of "The unknowns" as you call it, by open honest communication and being transparant.
If you won't invest because of fear, then you'll never built a relation on trust.
Your best advice to newly weds is to see a lawyer... ???
My advice to you is to reflect on yourself, how you dealt with your husband and your marriage.
What mistakes you (both) made, what you should have done different.
Maybe... opening up your relation wasn't such a good idea.
Maybe... communications was terrible,
Maybe... seeking the interest of the other was not there. etc etc.
Honest reflecting on yourself and your own marriage history will give you insight.
This will be more effective than simply projecting your own situation onto others. (who clearly deal with things totally differently then you ever did)
However, we share our concern about those "gay spouses", that lie and cheat, seek their own interest (secretly), the narcisists, the gaslighters etc. Those are real scum! Low lifes. I keep some option open for repentance, but only when it's sincere and proven to be real. Because this world is generaly not a save place.
That said, not all gay spouses in a MOM are these kind of scum.
Some are what I call "fools", being caught up in culture. They seem to have no own personal identity. They're caught up within a group and they feel happy in there. The identity of the group is theirs. I've no particular problem with that, but when they're in a MOM this is a sad thing.
Our western culture seems to be about the individual, but actually it's about conforming to well defined scripts.
Those choosing for a MOM and worked it out in possitive and constructive manner, are looked down upon. Because they don't conform to the expected cultural script society layed out for them. They are the pain in the ass, not conforming to a box. Even here in SSN we're not that much liked and/or acknowledged.
Strategies for MOM's » Just found out my Fiancé is Gay. Can we make this work? » June 26, 2024 7:55 am |
Hi Roka,
Congratulations with your marriage! I (and my wife SamanthaNL) wish you both many meaningful and happy years together.
And yes, no doubt: for better and for worse, because that's life. Even though we all prefer the "for better", the "for worse" part is necessary too, for this displays the value of what Love realy is. To quote the title of a favourite song of us: "Love is not a feeling, it's an act of your will".
And to this we'll add: If your will is genuinly focussed on Love(ing the other), feelings will follow suit.
Next year we'll celebrate the 40th anniversary of our (monogamous) MOM. The SSA (and all that came with it) became increasingly less and less important, nowadays (actually for many years) it's like a non-issue to us. But we do have to keep working on our relation, like every married couple regardless of sexual orientation.
For example: Busy times, work, family and children, obligations... but we haven't been really talking with eachother for much too long. So let's take walks in nature together! Talk and reconnect! Is this simple common knowledge? Well, you do have to decide to.These are lessons learned. Marriage is absolutly work in progress.
Alas, we're getting somewhat older. How do we keep our sexual relation exciting and interesting? I'm sure many (straight) couples that are long time married face this same question. A benefit of a MOM is having learned to be candid and open on this subject, and I would say: dealing with it in inventive, unexpected and possitive ways. (mind you: within the boundaries set by marriage). This background stimulates to be creative in that regard.
We aren't static and frozen in time, so we have to adjust to eachother. It's interesting, but it also asks from us to keep finding ways.
No no, not opening up the marriage. I'm always a bit worries some people might think in that direction. So let me be very clear: opening up a marriage is the most NOT-creative, NOT-loving, NOT-possitive, NOT-etc, solution
Is He/She Gay » A gay ex-husband answers your questions » April 5, 2024 12:12 pm |
As long as the "openly have sexual relations/relationships with same-sex partners" is practised privately in their own home, I think it would be considered "orderly".
Church is a place of worship, celebration of who God is and what He has done through Christ. Our services follow a somewhat traditional protestant pattern: singing songs, prayer, a sermon. After the service we drink coffee and meet our fellow christians, we talk about everyday life, the Bible, comments on the sermon we heared, things like that. It's not place for demonstrations, culture war, waving rainbow flags, political expressions etc.
We have better and more useful/important things to do than that.
Yes, the Catholic stance is that someone can be same sex attracted (no problem there), but should not act on it (celibacy).
It's their church, it's their stance. They have the right to do so. If someone doesn't like that, they probably should go to another church or convince the pope to change church teachings on the subject. In practise: "the soup is not eaten as hot as it's being served" (Dutch pronoun). At least here in the Netherlands the catholic church is not that harsh. I think they have compassion for the trials and tribulations of the people involved. I'm not Catholic, I have no first hand knowledge, so I can't comment on that further.
As I explained, in our church we have no official stances on matters like this (homosexual relations). Probably some people will think along the catholic teachings I described, others will have another opinion. Having other/different opinions is totally okay. We're one in Christ, that is our common ground and we treasure that. It's allowed to have different opinions, to have conversations on the matter with the open Bible on the table. Sometimes it's complicated/fuzzy (like with Covid) so the conclusion could be that we agree to disagree and respect unresolved different opinions.
To understand an "independent evangelical church" like ours, you have to unde
Is He/She Gay » A gay ex-husband answers your questions » April 4, 2024 7:15 pm |
(last post of the day, it's well after midnight here)
Our church is an independent church so we don't have rules opposed on us from some overall organization. Next to that we chose to not "freeze" our stance on all kinds of topics because we only consider the Bible as authorative. Interpretations that are expressed as written formal rules, could potentially block the possibility of better/revised understanding of the biblical text.
First and foremost we believe every believer in Christ is under grace and forgiven of sin. So whatever someone's opinion on the matter is, we always think/start from there. By definition judgement, hell or damnation is out of the question.
I've had several conversations with our pastor on the subject of homosexuality where we talked about the interpretation of the relevant bible passages. He has no definitive view on the matter because it's not that clear cut and simple topic as some people like to think. Of course he knows about our MOM situation, there was never any problem regarding my wife's sexual orientation. Furthermore everyone is welcome in our church, as long as they behave orderly.
To carry (bearing) the image of Christ and the Church in marriage, comes directly from Ephesians 5. The text is actually quite clear and straigthforward. The man as image of Christ, the woman as image of the Church. Marriage shows/depicts the intimate relation between Christ and the Church. One body, of which Christ is the head connected with the body (all believers). It's essential this image is depicted by a man and a woman (in marriage).
This has nothing to do with love the sinner condemn the sin. (? and I don't see why you make this connection)