OurPath Open Forum

This Open Forum is funded and administered by OurPath, Inc., (formerly the Straight Spouse Network). OurPath is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit that provides support to Straight Partners and Partners of Trans People who have discovered that their partner is LGBT+. Your contribution, no matter how small, helps us provide our community with this space for discussion and connection.


BE A DONOR >>>


You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

Is He/She Gay » A gay ex-husband answers your questions » April 5, 2024 12:12 pm

Dutchman
Replies: 2410

Go to post

As long as the "openly have sexual relations/relationships with same-sex partners" is practised privately in their own home, I think it would be considered "orderly".
Church is a place of worship, celebration of who God is and what He has done through Christ. Our services follow a somewhat traditional protestant pattern: singing songs, prayer, a sermon. After the service we drink coffee and meet our fellow christians, we talk about everyday life, the Bible, comments on the sermon we heared, things like that. It's not place for demonstrations, culture war, waving rainbow flags, political expressions etc. 
We have better and more useful/important things to do than that.

Yes, the Catholic stance is that someone can be same sex attracted (no problem there), but should not act on it (celibacy). 
It's their church, it's their stance. They have the right to do so. If someone doesn't like that, they probably should go to another church or convince the pope to change church teachings on the subject. In practise: "the soup is not eaten as hot as it's being served" (Dutch pronoun). At least here in the Netherlands the catholic church is not that harsh. I think they have compassion for the trials and tribulations of the people involved. I'm not Catholic, I have no first hand knowledge, so I can't comment on that further.

As I explained, in our church we have no official stances on matters like this (homosexual relations). Probably some people will think along the catholic teachings I described, others will have another opinion. Having other/different opinions is totally okay. We're one in Christ, that is our common ground and we treasure that. It's allowed to have different opinions, to have conversations on the matter with the open Bible on the table. Sometimes it's complicated/fuzzy (like with Covid) so the conclusion could be that we agree to disagree and respect unresolved different opinions.

To understand an "independent evangelical church" like ours, you have to unde

Is He/She Gay » A gay ex-husband answers your questions » April 4, 2024 7:15 pm

Dutchman
Replies: 2410

Go to post

(last post of the day, it's well after midnight here)
Our church is an independent church so we don't have rules opposed on us from some overall organization. Next to that we chose to not "freeze" our stance on all kinds of topics because we only consider the Bible as authorative. Interpretations that are expressed as written formal rules, could potentially block the possibility of better/revised understanding of the biblical text.
First and foremost we believe every believer in Christ is under grace and forgiven of sin. So whatever someone's opinion on the matter is, we always think/start from there. By definition judgement, hell or damnation is out of the question. 
I've had several conversations with our pastor on the subject of homosexuality where we talked about the interpretation of the relevant bible passages. He has no definitive view on the matter because it's not that clear cut and simple topic as some people like to think. Of course he knows about our MOM situation, there was never any problem regarding my wife's sexual orientation. Furthermore everyone is welcome in our church, as long as they behave orderly.

To carry (bearing) the image of Christ and the Church in marriage, comes directly from Ephesians 5. The text is actually quite clear and straigthforward. The man as image of Christ, the woman as image of the Church. Marriage shows/depicts the intimate relation between Christ and the Church. One body, of which Christ is the head connected with the body (all believers). It's essential this image is depicted by a man and a woman (in marriage). 

This has nothing to do with love the sinner condemn the sin. (? and I don't see why you make this connection)

Strategies for MOM's » A Grounded Theory of Fulfillment in MOMs » April 4, 2024 5:13 pm

Dutchman
Replies: 8

Go to post

My impression is that the author's choice for North Star was mainly pragmatic. Appearently she knew the organization, and via them she got access to a number of couples in a MOM who were willing to participate. It's irrelevant what that organization is about. The stories of participants of the study is the important thing here. They don't tell they have "overcome sexual orientation", nor healed, converted or something like that. Instead, what I read is that they are still same sex attracted, but their wife is the one exception to that rule. And this is the pattern I encounter over and over again, in other stories than in this article (not about LDS members and some not even religious), and of course the same applies in my own MOM. 
It's not bisexuality, it's something else that has no "offical" label. The article mentions sexual fluidity (Lisa Diamond), and maybe that has something to do with it, but I think it's actually something different. 

This is an open forum friend.

No, it's not. It's for straight spouses, only your specific topic is open for you to post. 

What I take issue with are posts promoting essentially religious opinion pieces posing as serious research papers. 

I'm not LDS, and have plenty of theological differences with them, even to the extent I don't consider the LDS church a true christian religion. But I have no personal problem with the people in that church and as far as I know they generaly try to keep to a high moral standard. I have no reason to consider them different or less than for example agnostic or non believers. Everybody has the right and freedom for their opinion, stances and convictions, regardless whether I agree with them or not. 

The LDS background of the participants is not relevant, ignore it. Focus on the human aspects that caused their MOM to be successful.
If the author of the article had picked the participants from the local chapter of the Hells Angels, it would have been the same t

Strategies for MOM's » A Grounded Theory of Fulfillment in MOMs » April 4, 2024 7:51 am

Dutchman
Replies: 8

Go to post

When I found the article at first I was skeptical because most of the participants that were interviewed were from the LDS church (not all though). Given their (LDS) teachings about homosexuality and eternal marriage, people were more of less pushed into MOM's, and the MOM was like a prison. Obviously this isn't a healthy base for marriage, and so it often led to misery and failure.
I expected to find this religious coercement in the stories, but to my surprise I found quite the opposite in the cases presented.
When I considered this and the setup of this study, it made sense. Because the study explicitly focuses on successful MOMs, unsuccesful and/or unhappy MOMs were excluded. So IMO it also demonstrates that coerceing and threatening with hell (or whatever things like that) is counterproductive, hence you won't find those couples in successful MOMs stories presented in the article. 

I think you misunderstand the setup and intention of the study. It's not a 7 step program (LDS or otherwise) how every MOM should/could be successful.
It's also totally clear that a high percentage of marriages that find themself in a MOM situation won't make it. 

However, by looking at the characteristics of those MOMs that are successful and happy, is very informative to contemplate what the factors in those cases are that led to this possitive result. It's not a bias as you call it, it's the deliberate choice of the study!

I too reckognized several aspects in the stories that overlapped with our own experience. It's precisely these things that this group of succesful MOMs have common that makes this study so interesting.

The author of the article acknowledges the limitations of the study (p80). But this doesn't render it useless or biased. The interested reader can distract a lot of helpful information, for much is not that specific to the participants' situation or religion. The LDS background of the participants that sometimes was mentioned, didn't hinder me (protestant chr

Strategies for MOM's » A Grounded Theory of Fulfillment in MOMs » April 2, 2024 8:27 am

Dutchman
Replies: 8

Go to post

I found this very interesting article/study on succesful MOM's. 

quoting from the absract:
Mixed-orientation marriages (MOMs) are often misunderstood. There is a general cynicism in research literature and in the broader culture regarding the relational viability of same sex attracted (SSA) individuals who marry someone of the opposite sex. However, there exist couples in MOMs that are resilient and attain satisfaction. The purpose of this study is to better understand how MOMs might become successful

https://digitalcommons.acu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1476&context=etd
 

Strategies for MOM's » Coping with His SS Desires » April 1, 2024 11:49 am

Dutchman
Replies: 2

Go to post

Hi Supernova,

what you say about your feelings in this situation is so recognizable to me. It's very hard to cope with that, for it shatters the dreams and expectations you had. It sure is terrible. but it explains the desception that you experienced.
On the other side: you realy love your wife, you still want to achieve that goal you had in mind when you married.
What you express is not grasped, it falls beside the road. It's so frustrating, for it's good what you intend and give. Why isn't that reciprocated?
Well, the short answer is: the sexual orientation doesn't match. 
The long answer is that this doesn't has to describe the final consequence and outcome.

The consequence of the short answer is easily formulated: divorce. 
The long answer demands a lot of effort and commitment to go for it, that comes from both sides. So there has to be motivation to go for that route. It's going upstream for both, so You'll have to have a really good reason to want to go that way. If you both have that, it can be done and turn out to be better than you ever expected.

A few months in, means you're at the starting point of that path. In my experience the rollercoaster phase, highs and lows. Trying to get a grip on this whole new situation. It's good you have your faith, it keeps you more or less on track in this turmoil. It varies how much support you get from your christian community. Most don't know how to handle the situation you're in. Their intentions are probably good, but they don't know what you're really going though. Find your own way, do this with your wife. Talking, communication, is so important! It's difficult, but too important to avoid.
Do it! This is an aspect you can find external help from, relation therapy or something like that. 
Whatever you go for, don't want them to stear you regarding "LGBTQI+" and so forth for some political or ideological purposes. 

What you write about your feeling, actualy lack of feeling of your wife:
This is the catch, the

Strategies for MOM's » Happy MOM for 15 years and going (lesbian & str8 man) » January 2, 2024 10:07 am

Dutchman
Replies: 58

Go to post

Hi Emeraldsong

You find yourself in a very different situation in your life. But this situation actually existed longer before. You (both) just weren't aware of it, but the sexual orientation mismatch was the actual hidden cause. Maybe your husband felt off in the intimate aspects... not really into it... maybe you sensed it. But you both couldn't give words to what the problem exactly was, it just developed that way. While the relation on itself felt reasonably friendly and good. It seemed to miss a certain driver. Well, probably the hidden cause for this was the mismatch in sexual orientation. Nobody's fault, but that was simply the thing that wasn't operating the way it was supposed to.

I don't think you should take the blame too much for shortcomings. Maybe you feel you get some control over it that way, if so... I understand. Because then it's something you can work on. But actually: it's really not your fault.
Recent events/revelations turned out to be the explanation, there is nood to no blame either direction. Forgive each other, without putting guilt on yourself or either party. And yes... it all was necessary to come out. Because there was something missing and not okay all along, even if you weren't able to identify it. But now: you both have to deal with it, and... have the opportunity to turn it into something very good and better than it was.

I want to repeat again, you BOTH have to be into that! You, as the straight spouse plays an essential role, your certainly not (!) a bystander looking how your spouse works out his problems. But it won't succeed if the gay spouse isn't willing to do very (hard) work. That is: takes his responsibility for his own life and marriage. Yes... making choices for himself too. His coming to grips with his sexuality and integreating that into your the relation is essential. A healthy happy sexual relation has to be an ingredient of a MOM. It's a bit to fresh and early to go into that in detail, but this is part of it. A

Support » This is so new and so painful » December 30, 2023 12:35 pm

Dutchman
Replies: 8

Go to post

To me these last reactions sound like a lot of generalizations with little regard of what OP actually told about her specific situation. Maybe people should be aware of that fact or at least consider that,

Strategies for MOM's » Happy MOM for 15 years and going (lesbian & str8 man) » December 30, 2023 8:54 am

Dutchman
Replies: 58

Go to post

Hi Emeraldsong,

I know it's a very difficult time you go through at this moment. With emotions all over the place, desperately trying to get a grip on your thoughts. It's of course unavoidable you have to go through it, it's a shock and your life is hustled, it takes time to find some solid ground beneath your feet again. I hope our story helps you a bit in that direction. (btw. my wife SamanthaNL has a single topic in this section, her account may also be helpful to you).

I recognize the disparity between how your husband feels and what it is to you at the moment. Even when he is (tries to be) supportive, his own discovery is that much in the foreground of his thoughts that he doesn't really understand/feels what you are going through. It makes you feel carrying your own burden alone, even when you both have a positive intention with your relation. Looking back on those early years I'm still somewhat bewildered how it's possible my wife for (an important) part missed what I was going through. Only much much later the penny dropped for her. Maybe I wasn't clear enough back then, too protective of her feelings and absorbing the pain I felt. Then again it was necessary not to come down to hard. It's a complicated balancing act to get forward together and at the same time not sacrifice your own feelings and limits.

However: certainly be loving and empathetic, but draw the line where it shall not be crossed!

Setting limits and be clear about that from the unset is important. Sometimes straight spouses feel pressured to give in, out of a false sense of obligation to be "supportive". Following up to cultural pressure, but maybe also hoping this will rescue the marriage. I think it will only causes damage, and even if it succeeds... the resulting marriage is degraded and twisted to something that isn't worth it. Well, in my opinion it's better to seperate in that situation, and find someone else..
Both spouses have to be on the same page. Wholeheartedly, I would say: b

Strategies for MOM's » Giving the MOM the best chance we can » September 6, 2023 12:03 pm

Dutchman
Replies: 24

Go to post

Grace,
Though I live a continent away from you, consider this as a (virtual) hug to you.
Dutchman.

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum