Really great podcast...I cried with Kristin!  Thank you, Sean.

Thank you everyone for writing. A fellow member named "Beyondconfused" asked me to reply to her first post (link) so here goes: 

1. First post and new to the forum. Newly separated 20 years together, 12 years married and 4 beautiful daughters together ranging from 17 years to 4 years. So a little bit of background husband has been a serial cheat and compulsive liar for the majority of the relationship....always protested never went any further than texting and very slight sexual contact always with women.

I'm going to assume that you're both 40+ which puts you right in the demographic of most couples having relationship issues. As for his "never went any further than texting and very slight sexual contact always with women" that's just complete bullsh*t. I always apply an "iceberg" approach to cheating, porn, sex toys, cams etc. meaning 9/10ths of the truth is usually under water.  

2. For the last 5 years he has been caught numerous times on various chat sites namely gay sites and then proclaimed he liked talking to guys about him and other person doing things to myself as it was a fantasy, on every occasion he would always promise it was nothing more than that and wouldn't happen again I was his everything.

What's more romantic than going on gay wank/cam/jerkoff sites to...talk about your wife? Because gay men just LOVE talking about women. Erm no. That sounds a bit like, "I was thinking of you the entire time I was screwing ________." This man is deluded. 

3. 15 months ago I walked in our shed to find said husband, that I can only describe as like a rabbit caught in headlights, heavy breathing and in quite an obvious panic asked him if he was OK and he said fine but minutes later my eyes fall upon a rather large sex toy I have never seen before thrown under the chair on which he is sitting. Obviously questioned him about and he protested not gay but couldn't explain why he did it.

I'm assuming a large dildo he was inserting into his anus but feel free to clarify. 

4. Fast forward to July 2020 when a major family trauma left me seeking therapy for my own undisclosed at the time childhood sexual abuse, on the same day as I start my first session I find out he has been talking with another woman and in phone conversation said he felt the spark had gone from our relationship. I left the marital home for a week for my own mental health and upon return he declared he wanted to work on the marriage had told the woman this and revealed he had also been sexually abused as a child and stated that was why he did the things he did ( watching gay porn, gay chat sites and his shed business).

I'm so very sorry that you were abused as a child. Turning now to your husband, there are two possibilities when a cheating spouse claims he was sexually abused as a child: 

1. He's telling the truth. 
2. He's lying. 

If he has a history of lying, you're fully justified in being skeptical. Regardless, it's not the straight spouse's role to fix a husband claiming childhood sexual trauma. Most husbands demand couples' counselling after disclosing childhood sexual abuse. This is akin to demanding joint swimming lessons during which his wife does all the swimming as he piggybacks. Husbands claiming childhood abuse, whether real or fabricated, need to work through this trauma alone which means individual therapy. He needs to learn how to swim...alone. 

5. I continued with therapy for 8 months working on myself, how to create healthy boundaries in relationships, growing and learning my own worth etc etc....during this time to my knowledge he had disposed of his toy and was invested in working on our relationship. The further I progressed the more distant he became and the more he shut off communicating. 

Good for you on getting individual therapy and for setting boundaries. This sounds a lot like him punishing you for: having boundaries; questioning his abusive behaviour; questioning his sexuality; calling him out for cheating; and generally no longer buying into his bullsh*t. 

6. 4 months ago I found out he had been using the garage where this said woman worked two to three times a day and when I sat him down to talk about it, explained how it made me feel and how I couldn't understand if you were committed to working on your marriage why you would continue to do that he said he understood and knew it was wrong, it was me he wanted, blah blah blah so again I continued to try.

By my estimation, most couples go through the conflict/reconciliation/try again cycle 5-7 times before separation/divorce. 

7. Now to the current 4 weeks ago I walked into the shed to find and New sex toy and lube hidden in the space of just a few days positioning moved several times so I questioned him about it and he got very defensive at which point I asked him to leave and he was more than happy to just walk away without any fight. 5 days later after spending the day in the family home with me and our children he then said he had to go but was very sheepish after proceeding to the shed and of course after leaving I checked and the toy and lube had gone. Same day he is back on gay chat site all evening, the following morning and again two days later.

What a pr*ck. 

8. In between these days he was telling me he was going to get himself sorted out, he knew it was all his fault and that he was going to put everything right. Also confessed to taking it out of the shed and said he had thrown in away on route to work ( he didn't go to work during that time) I then confided in one of our mutual friends regarding the whole situation and explained all of what had been going on in the hope if he knew people would be supportive he would seek professional help but on finding out this he went ballistic said " it was his secret to tell" and I just wanted to change him I couldn't just be happy for him to have his secret life in the shed at 2am.

Good for you on sharing all of this. You deserve love and support. 

9. When discussing taking wedding pictures down because of how much it hurt to look at them he made comments such as " don't put them in the closet will you" and has also said in response to my saying he should be true to himself or he will never be happy " when I'm 70 and with my husband Bob because nobody cares at 70 do they, you can tell me I told you so."

Ask him what's worse: a. taking down wedding photos; b. catching your husband with a large dildo up his arse; or c. catching a husband cheating. I reckon "b" and "c" are more painful so he can just suck it up. 

10. I've now found out that 6 days after leaving he also contacted the woman from the garage and has since taken her out for dinner and told me he is unsure what will happen between them " she told me she doesn't want to get in a relationship with me as she doesn't want to be a rebound" " she doesn't want to step into your shoes and is anxious about meeting the children" comments which make me think there is more to it than he says of course. My question is though I'm seriously confused my gut instinct is he is not being true to himself but his actions are saying I'm a hetro man that fell out of love with you and moved on to another woman....

I agree it's confusing. But if he's no longer in your life or is perhaps on his way out...time to let him go I reckon. 

11. Has anyone here had any experience with a gay married man being a serial cheat with women?  Could this be his own way of trying to affirm he is not gay? Is this new woman just another mask for him? 

It's not uncommon for gay or gay-in-denial husbands to remarry women as a kind of "f*ck you I AM STRAIGHT" type thing to their ex-wives. But this normally happens with men who are over 50. There are two possibilities: 1. He's bisexual; or 2. He's gay and the "woman" in question is actually a man. 

12. He is still insisting he is not gay all sites and toys are now gone out of his life since the weekend after leaving because " I aint doing that no more" " I don't want that in my life."

Lather, rinse, repeat my friend. He's been down this lube-covered road before and quickly found himself another sex toy. So he's lying to himself. 

13. Sometimes feel like I'm going crazy and after listening to his lies and bull crap continuously  for 20 years its very difficult to not fall into his trap of believing since leaving 4 weeks ago he is now a changed man and this was obviously just a problem with me even though my logical brain try to tell me different. 

I reckon that how we feel with our spouses/partners ultimately decides whether to remain together or divorce. Few of us define marriage as lying, cheating, and a total absence of intimacy. The idea that your husband, through sheer force of will, is no longer a dildo-riding, gay cam wanking, serial womanizer is laughable. So what's my point? Who he wants to sleep with is secondary because clearly he's no longer sleeping with you, his wife.

14. Some of the replies suggest he could be bisexual but my gut instinct is not one of that. I wonder if there would be any specific differences between what a bi sexual man would look at in comparison with a gay man?

My friend Dr. Joe Kort wrote a book about this, "Is my husband gay, bi, or straight?" and in the book he offers a checklist to answer that question. While I'm not a mental health professional, I use the following simplified checklist: 

- If a man no longer has sex with his wife, hasn't had sex with women in years, watches gay porn, fantasizes about gay men, and has sex with men (whether "real world" sex or "virtual"), he's gay! 
- If you do the above with men and women, you're bisexual! 

The current fashion in mental health circles is to claim something like, "Who we sleep with doesn't define our sexuality." I call bullsh*t. You can't sit in front of me, chow down on a 20 oz steak, and still claim... "I'm a non-practicing vegetarian." At some point, our actions have to dictate our (sexual) preferences. Clearly if you're husband is ridin' dildos and wanking with men in his garden shed, then he ain't straight! 

15. I believe the cheating with women (always done around his friends) is more to affirm to himself and them that he is a heterosexual man rather than an actual attraction to woman? Is this at all possible?

I'm happy to share my own experience. While closeted, I faked having a sexual attraction towards women, dated a woman, married a woman, and infrequently had sex with my girlfriend/wife. It's possible that your husband's cheating is purely to prove to himself and others that he's straight. In my personal opinion, we're 100% ourselves when we're alone online, meaning when no one is watching. So I reckon your husband's shed play, online viewing preferences, and toy collection suggest his true sexuality.    

I hope that helps my friend but please feel free to post again with any questions. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (October 2, 2021 12:18 pm)

Thank you for writing friend. In reply:

1. Your podcast compelled me to actually register for the site.  I appreciate the courage it took for you to be so honest. 

Honestly, I'm not sure how courageous I am my friend. I'm just a gay guy sharing my story. I think you straight spouses (or straight ex-wives) are the true heroes here. 

2. I still have a question - is the gay community as supportive of this "alternative lifestyle" of  closeted gays marrying straight women as they seem to be.  I ask because my ex had exclusively gay roommates in college and they were his attendants at our wedding. 

I'm not a spokesperson for the entire "gay community" although I'm always happy to share my personal opinions. BUT I'll need some more details if you don't mind. Here are my questions: 

- How old were you two when you met?
- What year did you meet?  
- Did he disclose his sexuality from the beginning of your relationship? 
- How was sex during your relationship? 
- How long were you two together? 

3. I always considered them to be friends of mine until I discovered that my ex also was gay. 

Ouch. Can you describe how you found out his secret? 

4. There is no way they could have been as deceived about his sexuality as I was. 

It's possible, but please provide more information if you can. 

5. Particularly when his bachelor party was a night of gay bar hopping.

That's certainly a "pink flag." 

6. I would appreciate some insight into the gay community's views on these types of marriages, understanding fully that not all gay men share the same values. Thanks in advance for any insight you could provide.

I'm happy to share my perspective and personal experience. Right up until the late 1990s and early 2000s, there was a phenomenon called "lavendar marriages." These were arranged marriages between gay men and straight women, purely to hide the gay man's homosexuality. The most famous lavendar marriage was back in 1955 between a deeply closeted Rock Hudson and his secretary Phyllis Gates (When Hollywood Studios Married Off Gay Stars to Keep Their Sexuality a Secret - HISTORY). Similarly, gay US servicemen sometimes married straight women for better housing, benefits, and as cover during the "don't ask don't tell" era. In my personal experience, men 50 years or older most often married straight wives to conform and this was my personal experience. In North America, the inflection point appears to be around 2011-2012 when a majority of Americans and Canadians supported gay marriage. Not surprisingly, this was when I came out to my (then) wife. For me personally, I understand why gay like me men married (past tense) women, but it's not something I now support. In fact, given that marriage equality has more than 70% public support, few gay men outside of deeply religious communities feel the need to undertake their own "lavendar" marriages. 

I hope that partially answered your questions my friend and look forward to reading more about your relationship. Be well! 

Hi Sean,

Just like walk, my husband didn't marry me due to family, religious or societal pressures.  His family wasn't religious or particularly conservative. They were from Key West, FL, and my ex moved to San Francisco with his family in 3rd grade, around the time of Stonewall. His parents were pop musicians. 

My ex did what he wanted and was strong willed. Am guessing, but not certain, he was punished for liking boys as a kid. He probably fought back knowing him.  He never went out of his way to please his parents or extend himself when I saw them. 

His parents returned to Florida during my ex's first year of college here at a large public college. He had no other family here.  No pressure to stay in the closet. Lots of fun for a single and young gay man in 1980's SF.

I was born and raised here. LGB came to SF to be openly gay. It is an oasis.  It's supportive, There's no reason on earth to be in the closet.

My GIDXH had a master's degree and worked in his field in a company with out gay men. Some in very good positions. No worries about getting ahead.

Am assuming his attempts to find a gay sugar daddy didn't go well due to his bad temper and manipulative behavior.  He found me - naive with a very marketable degree. I was hard working and responsible. He pulled a con on me. He eventually stopped working.

On a related note, I am a lifelong practicing Catholic and am puzzled why this religion is automatically associated with someone being shamed into the closet.  I have never seen or heard a word uttered anywhere in church or among parishioners against LGBT+ in my life.  Most churches have a Dignity Club, which is for LGBT+ parishioners. There have been a few priests in the Archdiocese  who stated they were gay.  I don't doubt many Catholic dioceses are homophobic and many parishioners remain closeted due to that.  It's not universal.

Getting back to beards, here's a list of woman in show business who thought they married gay men with a few contemporary couples. (Hone in the late Carrie Fisher's creepy ex-husband. What a lout.)

https://www.more.com/celebrity/18-famous-women-who-unknowingly-married-gay-men/

I have come to believe that homophobia doesn't have much to do with straights, we're being blamed for it as usual but I believe it's mainly closet gays hating openly gay.  

The father who disowns his son when he comes out as gay being an example.