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May 31, 2021 3:20 am  #1731


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Blue Bear wrote:

MJM017 wrote:

If I may tag on another question - can a man be straight and have gay sex or watch gay porn occasionally? They seem GID or bi to me. Have seen articles in Psychology Today and on PubMed which claim these guys are straight.

Yes, but only in the same way a "vegetarian" can occasionally eat a filet mignon wrapped in bacon.

 

 

May 31, 2021 8:27 am  #1732


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

In my opinion, a man who has sex with another man is gay.

 

May 31, 2021 4:07 pm  #1733


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

MJM: If I may tag on another question - can a man be straight and have gay sex or watch gay porn occasionally? They seem GID or bi to me. Have seen articles in Psychology Today and on PubMed which claim these guys are straight.
Gloria: In my opinion, a man who has sex with another man is gay.

Blue Bear: Yes, but only in the same way a "vegetarian" can occasionally eat a filet mignon wrapped in bacon.


Thank you everyone for posting. I have exchanged countless messages with straight spouses grappling with the question: "Is my husband gay?" My opinion hasn't changed: I don't believe that 40+ year old husbands who no longer have sex with their wives (nor any other women), watch exclusively gay porn, and only have sex with men should label themselves as straight.

I've recently come to appreciate that the term "gay" is often too radical, too charged, and too dangerous for many gay-in-denial husbands. I came to this conclusion listening to 
Dr. Malebranche's SSN podcast. (Dr. Malebranche is a gay physician and HIV specialist based in Atlanta.) During his interview, he spent the better part of an hour tying himself in knots to avoid labelling himself or others as "gay", even when they have sex exclusively with men. He even invented a new term, "same sex loving" which doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

Few straight spouses actually hear "Yes I am gay" from their husbands so please manage your expectations accordingly. Husbands who no longer have sex with their wives, watch gay porn, and have sex with only men often continue claiming they are "straight", even in the face of overwhelming evidence. They often minimize their behaviour by saying they are "curious" or claim they're acting out because of some "past sexual abuse." My advice to straight spouses is to focus on her relationship/marriage rather than spend years trying to figure out her husband's sexuality. After all, why try to define his sexuality for him when he's spent a lifetime hiding and lying about it?  

So what's my point? If your husband refuses to have sex with you and prefers having sex with men (either online or in real life), he's clearly "queer" or "not straight." Now the straight spouse is ready to move on and focus on her relationship. And here is what I suggest: 

1. Stop letting the clown (your husband) "drive your marriage bus." You're now in charge. 
2. Write a "help wanted ad" defining exactly what you want in a husband/partner.
3. Post this ad somewhere you can read it every day and perhaps add how you're feeling at the moment.
4. Now that you've defined the husband/partner you need, you can start looking at your relationship.
5. Accept that your husband's sexuality is beyond your control. You cannot "ungay" him as he was born gay.
6. Further accept that the onus is now on your husband/partner to save your relationship.  
7. Your husband cannot be honest with you about his sexuality, which is why couples counselling won't work. Individual counselling is much more effective for both of you. 
8. If you want to determine the evolution of your marriage, look back at the last 2-5 years and then use this information to predict your future. For example, if in the last 2 years you've had sex 4 times (or 2x a year), you'll likely have sex 15-20x over the next decade.
9. After 6 months or a year following "discovery" of gay cheating and/or gay porn, go back to your "help wanted ad" and list of how you were feeling following discovery to determine if your relationship and life have improved.

While I'm not a mental health professional, I firmly believe that husbands who secretly have sex with other men are not straight. In my opinion, straight spouses should focus on facts, rather than your husband's back story. For example, if your reality is as follows: 

1. My husband lies to me, most recently about his sexuality. 
2. My husband no longer has sex with me and we haven't had satisfying sex in years. 
3. My husband watches gay porn. 
4. My husband cheats on me with men. 

I'd urge you to focus on behaviour rather than excuses. Not surprisingly, many of the straight spouses who write me wrongly focus on his version and his justifications. We do this because few couples want to separate/divorce. Again I believe blindly believing a dishonest husband is letting the "clown drive the bus"  so to speak because most non-straight husbands have a history of lying about their sexuality. And those excuses sound like this:  

1. My husband lies to me...and says he was just curious about gay sex
2. My husband no longer has sex with me...because he says I gained weight.
3. My husband watches gay porn...because we no longer have sex.
4. My husband cheats on me with men...because he claims he was abused as a child.

If after years of trying to fix him through things like couples counselling: 

1. He still cheats...
2. The couple no longer has sex...
3. He continues to watch gay porn...
4. He continues to have sex with men...

Then perhaps it's time to accept that things won't likely ever improve. End of rant! If you disagree with me, please feel free to post your rebuttal. Be well. 

Last edited by Séan (June 2, 2021 1:11 am)

     Thread Starter
 

May 31, 2021 7:07 pm  #1734


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thanks, Sean. I like the clown driving the bus analogy. I immediately pictured my late GIDXH.

He stopped sex with me a year after marriage due to repressed memories surfacing of sexual abuse with an adult female. After a few years of therapy about it, nothing improved.  I thought he was lying and gay.

I went to a clinical psychologist in 2000 who earned her PhD from a prestigious university, I wanted help to divorce him. (I have great health insurance.  Not showing off. Showing how out of touch with reality a supposedly well-qualified therapist was.). The doctor said repressed memories could do this. It takes time to heal. Do therapists still say this? Anyone, please chime in.  I didn’t leave him then because he threatened me when I told him why I saw the therapist. Another story for another time.

I often wonder if some gay men want to be the sole breadwinner to have their wife be unable to afford a divorce? In California, you have the right to stick your spouse with your legal bill if you are a stay-at-home mom, regardless of who filed. There’s also alimony, community property in most states, getting part of his pension,  and child support.  Your state may have the same law.

I agree that lying about one’s sexuality and using excuses for cheating with the same sex, is the straight partner’s time to make plans to bail.  My husband became more abusive when I insisted on the truth. This is the rule and not the exception.  They want to hang onto this one sided secret MOM for dear life.

P.S. I wish my ex had told me. I would have helped him. Life would have been easier for both of us if he spilled the beans. He knew I supported gay rights and supported gay marriage. Not legal then.  I am a practicing Catholic. In my city, it’s common to be for gay rights and attend church regularly.

I think this shows his lack of interest in me.  His choice. He was not focused on the marriage & didn’t care about building trust. The fear of facing consequences had nothing to do with it. I would have not violated his privacy. That’s my behavior.

Last edited by MJM017 (May 31, 2021 7:23 pm)


No - It's not too late. It's not hopeless. Even there, there's something I can do. I just have to find the will. Ikiru (1952), film directed by Akira Kurosawa 
 

June 5, 2021 1:59 am  #1735


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for posting MJM. In other news, I will be interviewed for the SSN podcast next week. Please post or message me questions you would like a gay ex-husband to answer. It can be about anything at all. 

     Thread Starter
 

June 14, 2021 9:28 pm  #1736


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Checking in.  I’m the one with the gay closeted boyfriend (who hasn’t wanted sex pretty much anytime the last 17 years).   Never.  The few times early on that we did have sex it was very mechanical and I initiated.  Here’s my dilemma…

1. he is definitely gay and I have heard other people know it.  Like service people gossiping at the country club he is a long time member of, and other members talking among themselves.  Like close friends of his who have said things to him that I wasn’t supposed to hear or understand.  How many people have known this?  That really pisses me off to think the people we are “friends” with and business acquaintances have known this for years and likely either look at me like I am a freak, or laugh or feel sorry for me.  That hurts.  Badly.  

2. he is gay with LOTS of people.  Business people, waiters, janitors, and I suspect people at the halfway house across from his office.  Younger men too.  Gross.

3. I’ve been celibate for FIFTEEN damned years thinking I was not attractive enough or successful enough.  

4.  I’m pissed and he knows it.  He also has an extremely bad temper and tends to try to “get back” at people who cross him.  Like reporting people to the IRS kind of stuff.  He is very influential and wealthy in our community.  We have not talked about this because he is extremely private.  And he blows up and the smallest thing.

5. I love his family and have been there for his children growing up.  His daughter is getting married in December.  His mother is 96 years old and very close to him.  His sisters too.  His son is very close to me too.  It’s like there is a gigantic elephant in the room and only I see it.  Everyone is very very formal with each other.  

how the Hell can I get out of this without getting hurt (maybe physically-he has very rich and scary friends, talking mafia types).  How can I ease out without hurting his family?  

Sean, you said before that I am in a burning building and I should focus on getting the Hell out.  Any words of advice? I’m honestly stuck but I can’t live my life in this hole anymore.  ?

 

June 14, 2021 10:15 pm  #1737


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Hello Dixie,

Not Sean, but the only way to leave the relationship, in my opinion,  is to move far away and break contact with him & his family. Your safety is of paramount concern - staying a couple or not.

If you decide to stay, detach from the situation. Be as fake as you can be in front of him. Spend a bit less time together.  Kind of like an eff-u in secret. I’ve done that with bad bosses when I couldn’t leave the job right away. It gave me a sense of control and preserved my sanity.

I didn’t have sex for 18 years out of a 19 year marriage. It wore me down to face continual rejection from him. I yearned for intimacy and closeness. My heart goes out to you.

Thinking good thoughts for you.

Maria


No - It's not too late. It's not hopeless. Even there, there's something I can do. I just have to find the will. Ikiru (1952), film directed by Akira Kurosawa 
 

June 16, 2021 1:27 am  #1738


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thanks for the update Dixie. In reply: 

Checking in.  I’m the one with the gay closeted boyfriend (who hasn’t wanted sex pretty much anytime the last 17 years).   Never.  The few times early on that we did have sex it was very mechanical and I initiated.  Here’s my dilemma…

1. he is definitely gay and I have heard other people know it.  Like service people gossiping at the country club he is a long time member of, and other members talking among themselves.  Like close friends of his who have said things to him that I wasn’t supposed to hear or understand.  How many people have known this?  That really pisses me off to think the people we are “friends” with and business acquaintances have known this for years and likely either look at me like I am a freak, or laugh or feel sorry for me.  That hurts.  Badly.  


I'm sorry he and others have hurt you. Question: now that you've acknowledged that he is gay, what are your plans? While I think it's normal and healthy to be angry with those around you who apparently knew his secret, you can't change them. So what are you going to do now? 

2. he is gay with LOTS of people.  Business people, waiters, janitors, and I suspect people at the halfway house across from his office.  Younger men too.  Gross.

Ok. 

3. I’ve been celibate for FIFTEEN damned years thinking I was not attractive enough or successful enough.  

I have often posted that sexual neglect is abuse. Period. I'm so sorry he deprived you of intimacy. 

4.  I’m pissed and he knows it.  He also has an extremely bad temper and tends to try to “get back” at people who cross him.  Like reporting people to the IRS kind of stuff.  He is very influential and wealthy in our community.  We have not talked about this because he is extremely private.  And he blows up and the smallest thing.

Anger can often be a weapon in abusive/toxic relationships. It sounds like he's letting you know that his sexuality is, and forever will be, off limits. 

5. I love his family and have been there for his children growing up.  His daughter is getting married in December.  His mother is 96 years old and very close to him.  His sisters too.  His son is very close to me too.  It’s like there is a gigantic elephant in the room and only I see it.  Everyone is very very formal with each other.  

I reckon we define "love" differently my friend. While there may be a form of affection, your boyfriend has likely groomed/manipulated his family to maintain his cover. And unfortunately this means that they are not your friends nor allies. I'd recommend discussing all of this with a qualified mental health professional. You will likely have to detach from them (with love) to truly find freedom and start healing from this toxic man and abusive relationship. This means cutting off all contact with his "enablers" which includes everyone keeping his secret. As I shared in a previous exchange, you're not going to survive and thrive if you continue to surround yourself with people who deny his homosexuality.  

6. How the Hell can I get out of this without getting hurt (maybe physically-he has very rich and scary friends, talking mafia types).  How can I ease out without hurting his family?  

If you ever needed confirmation that you are a codependent, look no further than this statement: "How can I ease out without hurting his family?" Put bluntly, f*ck him, his closet, and his family of enablers. Start thinking about yourself my friend. You are the only person you can change. As for your security, I wouldn't recommend staying in a relationship because you fear physical harm. I'd suggest discussing all of this with your friends and family who are not in contact with this toxic man. You need allies who are not within his reach and who can't be manipulated.  

7. Sean, you said before that I am in a burning building and I should focus on getting the Hell out.  Any words of advice? I’m honestly stuck but I can’t live my life in this hole anymore?

I'd suggest working with a mental health professional to understand what is really going on here. While I would ultimately defer to a qualified counsellor's opinion, here is how I see the situation: 

- Accept he is gay and that you deserve more than an abusive, loveless, and toxic relationship.  
- Acknowledge that this man is a black-belt manipulator and abuser.
- By choosing to remain in this toxic relationship, you are indirectly consenting to his continued neglect/abuse. 
- His family does not love you because no one who loves you would continue denying reality (he's gay) while asking that you remain in an abusive relationship.
- I reckon his family loves the role that you play as his beard/cover because it maintains the lie that he's straight..and likely takes a lot of pressure off of all of them. 
- Please contact a qualified counsellor who understands trauma and co-dependency.
- I believe you need to leave this man immediately and work like hell to rebuild your self-esteem. 

I hope that helps my friend. Please post again if I haven't answered your questions or if you disagree with anything I've written. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (June 17, 2021 1:52 am)

 

July 5, 2021 5:16 pm  #1739


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Hi Sean,

I have a question I’m very confused by. I’ve read multiple posts here of how GID spouses keep from having sex with their straight spouse and that is a form of emotional neglect. Well I’m the straight spouse and having trouble connecting and having sex freely with my husband who I’m trying to understand. Would that be the same thing? Am I not committing emotional neglect?

Thx.

 

July 19, 2021 10:55 am  #1740


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

My apologies Treelovingvegan ("Tree" for short) for this late reply as I didn't see your question. In reply: 

1. I have a question I’m very confused by. I’ve read multiple posts here of how GID spouses keep from having sex with their straight spouse and that is a form of emotional neglect.

For any new members "GID" means "gay in denial" and "GIDH" means "gay in denial husband." You might have read the "emotional neglect" statement in this thread because that's my personal opinion. I'll restate my opinion again: I believe that when a wife still wants to have sex with her husband and yet that GID or questioning husband refuses to have sex with his wife, that is a form of abuse. And that abuse is compounded when the same wife finds out her husband has been having gay sex via screens or through hook ups with men. 

2. Well I’m the straight spouse and having trouble connecting and having sex freely with my husband who I’m trying to understand. Would that be the same thing? Am I not committing emotional neglect?

It's certainly possible, but I do want to distinguish between a straight spouse's circumstances and that of her GID or questioning husband. Based on my time here, a straight wife's desire to have sex with her husband follows this pattern: 

Stage 1: She still wishes to have sex with her husband, even though he's never really been interested. 
Stage 2: She suspects him of cheating (with men) or has caught him (yet again) on gay porn. And yet still wants to have sex to prove he still "loves" her and that their marriage has a chance.
Stage 3: He admits to some form of infidelity (again with men) and is now on a short-term mission, called a "honeymoon phase", to prove he's heterosexual. She's pleased but also disoriented. She's also secretly worried about STIs and whether he is truly gay.  
Stage 4: The husband grudgingly admits he's "sorta bisexual" or perhaps even "gay." The couple then stops having sex altogether. He stops because he's never been interested in heterosexual sex and she now finds herself repulsed by her questioning, dishonest, and cheating husband.

Tree would it be fair to say you're now in stage 4 (see above)? Based on our previous exchange of messages, I reckon you want to be in love with your husband but, at the same time, you do not define "love" as dishonesty and infidelity. If this is correct, I reckon you no longer want to have sex because you are no longer physically nor emotionally attracted to your husband. Moreover, if you do have sex, you risk catching an STI/STD because many cheating spouses have unprotected sex. Please let me know if you agree. Be well!   

Last edited by Sean (July 21, 2021 4:19 pm)

 

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