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March 10, 2021 4:30 pm  #1661


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for posting. In reply: 

1. I AM enjoying my new-found freedom. I'm still sad a lot of the time and still have much healing to do. But there are also wonderful things in my life that I'm grateful for. I have a career, a therapist who's been an immense help, and family who love and support me. I lived alone for the first few months post-separation but recently moved in with a single girlfriend I've known since junior high, and that's been great for my mental health. I wanted to hide/isolate, but ultimately knew that probably wasn't the best choice.

New beginnings! Well done my friend. 

2. The future ex and I spent the majority of our marriage living thousands of miles away from family but moved back to our home state in 2018 and I'm so glad we did. I imagine this would've been an even harder journey if we still lived on the other side of the country.

Agreed.

3. I agree that it's not healthy to remain in contact with him and my therapist has said much the same. I think I'm playing nice and staying in contact because I'm afraid if I cut him off or I out him he'll retaliate, either in the divorce or in some other way.

Fair point. 

4. Our relationship absolutely fit the narcissist/co-dependent mold and we all know narcissists don't fight fair. In our final years together there were plenty of instances where I'd confront him about something he did that hurt my feelings and instead of apologizing he'd launch an attack on my character and bad mouth me to friends and family, even make up outrageous lies about me. I mentioned this fear to my roommate recently and she laughed and assured me that nobody would take him seriously, but I still worry.

He sounds like a monster. 

4. I think you're spot on that he's worried about what people will think if/when they learn what a jerk he's been. I WANT to believe that he's not a terminal narcissist, that he only developed those tendencies as a coping mechanism, as a result of hiding and lying for most of his life. I want to believe that he'll eventually accept the damage he's done and apologize and make an effort to grow and really change, but maybe that's naïve of me. I don't think he's ever given me a genuine apology. It's always been "I'm sorry BUT" or "I'm sorry YOU feel that way."

Again he sounds like a complete pr*ck. As for the narcissism, I reckon I'm living proof that toxic, lying, manipulative narcissists can indeed change. But change was only possible once I'd come out of my closet. If he desperately wants to remain closeted, please keep in mind that you'll have a huge bargaining chip during your divorce negotiations. Just sayin!  

5. So yes, despite all of the sh*t he's put he through, all of the lies and the hurt, I DO still feel that need to protect and heal him! UGH!

I'd suggest checking out CODA - co-dependent's anonymous. And it's free!  

6. Thanks again for your time and your reply Sean! Writing this all out was a useful exercise and has helped me see where I should and shouldn't be spending my emotional energy.

Come back and share as much as you like; either here or on your own thread. Be well! 

 

March 30, 2021 12:15 am  #1662


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Original Post: Author, Upside, Link: Straight Spouse Network Open Forum » The Big List of Red Flags (boardhost.com)

"Disclaimer – This list was compiled from experiences within this forum and the resources below:
[i]Am I A Lesbian? Masterdoc
Secret Sexual Basement found by Longwayhome[/i]

Is My Spouse Gay, Lesbian, Bi, or Questioning?

Only your spouse can truly answer that question.

That said, many spouses are hesitant to openly disclose their hidden desires to their partners out of shame, fear, or selfishness. The first phase of this Secret Sexual Basement is when a spouse hides these sexual activities, deceives their partner, and creates an alternate sexual life that is compartmentalized from their daily existence.

For a straight spouse, this process can be very disorienting. Your once-loving relationship now feels different, but you're unable to identify exactly what has changed. You repeatedly ask your spouse but their answers feel inauthentic. There is a looming dread that has you on edge.

As a straight spouse begins to look beyond the surface, the questioning partner may disclose partial truths about their sexuality to gauge a reaction. Or the questioning partner may choose to dig deeper, tunneling further to protect this compartmentalized sexual life, lying, gaslighting, and manipulating to make sure their world is never found.

Who Is This Guide For?

If you feel your spouse hasn't been fully truthful, then this guide is for you.

Proving your spouse is LBGT is nearly impossible. Proving that they have a pattern of deception in regards to their sexuality is very possible.

The list below is a list of external signs that you can utilize to help ground your suspicions. While they aren't certainties of an LBGT spouse, each clarifies the existence of a secret sexual basement.

Do Words Match Actions?

With each of the checklist items, it can be helpful to think: do my spouse's words match their actions?

If your partner is saying one thing but finds themselves consistently doing the items below, then they aren't being truthful with you. You can then prove that a secret sexual basement exists and then decide how best to move forward.

Sex and Intimacy
☐ Having sex with the same sex in secret.
☐ Minimizing sex with the same sex as "no big deal", "just a blowjob", or a "one-time thing".
☐ Giving ultimatums that involve them having sex with a same-sex partner.
☐ Using gay/lesbian dating apps or websites.
☐ Minimizing meeting the same sex in dating apps as "no big deal".
☐ Using dating apps or websites with a gay/lesbian profile.
☐ Minimizing sending or receiving pictures in a dating app.
☐ Minimizing messaging men/women in dating apps as "just curiosity" or "I would never do that".
☐ Taking prep medications.
☐ Hiding condoms or dental dams when you're in an exclusive relationship.
☐ Wants to open the marriage "for you" but you have never expressed any desire to do so.
☐ Visiting hookup locations, like bathhouses, often in secret.
☐ Accidentally saying the name of someone of the same sex while having sex.
☐ Sudden interest in threesomes that include the same sex, without your desire.
☐ Purchasing sexual toys, clothing, or drugs in secret.
☐ Sudden interest in new sex toys or moves which emulate gay/lesbian sex acts.
☐ Sudden interest in using condoms during the middle of a monogamous relationship without valid explanation.
☐ Learning new, surprising sexual moves after a long period.
☐ A sudden unfamiliarity with your sexual preferences. 
☐ Inability to engage in sexual acts with you because "they're not in the mood" for many months or greater.
☐ No lust or emotional attraction when intimate. Simply disgust.
☐ Panic attacks when you are about to be intimate.
☐ Making up physical ailments to avoid having sex.
☐ An inability to look in your eyes during sex.
☐ Time-limited or sexual act limited intimacy. "I will do X for 5 minutes then we're done" or "We can only do X".
☐ Drifting emotional intimacy, with sex treated like a chore.
☐ Sex is done "for you".
☐ Your partner openly communicates their dislike of sex with you.
☐ Sex only occurs under the influence of substances.
☐ Continued pressure to engage in sex acts that make you highly uncomfortable, often used in gay/lesbian sex.
☐ Sexting with the same sex in secret.
☐ Minimizing sexual conversations with the same sex as "just fun".
​☐ Shaving intimate areas in new ways, especially if attempting to hide it from you.

Pornography
☐ Visiting Gay/Lesbian Porn Sites.
☐ Collecting Gay/Lesbian Porn.
☐ Masturbating to the same sex.
☐ Hiding any of the above.
☐ Minimizing Gay/Lesbian Porn as "Everyone does it" or "It just popped up".

Secrecy
☐ Your partner will not discuss their sexual past or preferences.
☐ Past sexual acts with the same sex which were only recently disclosed.
☐ Your partner is vague in their sexuality, not willing to openly commit.
☐ Quickly leaving phone conversations when you enter a room.
☐ Hiding their screen when you enter a room or sit with each other.
☐ Having passwords on devices and not sharing.
☐ Having secret folders on their phone.
☐ Receiving many text messages, but you have no idea whom.
☐ Turning off phone tracking features so you can't locate them.
☐ Not showing up when they were expected and crafting unbelievable tales about where they were or what they did.
☐ Having gaps in their story that don't add up. Unable to address them on further pressing.
☐ Inability to explain when the spouse is caught in a lie.
☐ Having hidden email accounts with fake names.
☐ Having hidden social accounts with fake names.
☐ Receiving emails from the same gender soliciting sex and referencing an account online.
☐ Receiving emails for gay/lesbian dating apps or websites.
☐ Deleting email accounts without logical reason.
☐ Liking or following social accounts that contain gay/lesbian porn.
☐ Deleting social accounts without logical reason.
☐ When confronted with any of the above, blames you as "untrusting" or paranoid.

Attraction
☐ Your partner shares their sexual, emotional, or romantic attraction to the same sex.
☐ Your partner prefers effeminate men or masculine women. They push you towards these roles to maintain their attraction.
☐ Your partner finds it difficult to name members of the opposite sex they find attractive. They are only attracted to people on TV, in books, or in the movies. In reality, their attraction to the opposite sex dissolves.
☐ Your partner expresses gender confusion, changing from hetero to asexual to bisexual.
☐ Noticing your partner lusting after the same sex in public or private.
☐ Minimizing sexual, emotional, or romantic attraction to the same sex as "everyone has a girl crush", "I'd never act on it", or "maybe in the future".
☐ Attraction to the opposite gender sounds like a logical choice, versus a feeling.
☐ Past relationships of your spouse were based on the opposite gender's partner's attraction to them.
☐ Your relationship with your spouse was because you went after them.
☐ Uncontrollably flirting with the same sex in front of you.
☐ Referring to your relationship as a contract they are resigned to fulfill.
☐ The emotional intimacy within the relationship is a chore or burden, devoid of passion.
☐ Negotiations on how to continue your relationship "without the sex".

Friendships
☐ Having gay/lesbian close friends that appear to be more.
☐ Never being invited or considered on activities with their gay/lesbian close friends.
☐ Having friendships that say "I love you".
☐ Having friendships that involve secrets or privacy.
☐ Having friendships that are described in romantic terms.
☐ Prioritizing secret friendships over your relationship.
☐ Having friendships that involve sexual innuendo or flirting.
☐ Having friendships where more is disclosed to the friend than to their partner about large areas of their life.
☐ Having friendships that give romantic gifts, especially in secret.
☐ Having friendships that have hidden get-togethers.
☐ Having friendships that contain large gaps in time without the ability to explain. Explanations seem bombastic.
☐ Minimizing friendships with sexual innuendo as "everyone does it" or "we would never act on it".
☐ Your spouse has a hard time enforcing boundaries and the line between friendships and crushes is murky.


How Did Your Spouse Do?

The more of the red flags above that are seen in your relationship, the greater cause for concern. 

When your spouse's words do not match their actions you can prove they have a secret sexual basement. The discovery of a secret sexual basement is devastating, but it is also the first step towards taking control of your own life.

What Happens Next?

I wish I could answer for you.

There are many possible paths to take ahead. Communication. Snooping. Confrontation. Therapy. MOMs. Decoupling. Whichever path is best, this community is here to help support you. We've been in your shoes, know the pain of discovery, and can share what we've learned firsthand.

Wishing you strength in your journey!

Notes: I've no doubt missed hundreds of red flags. If you have any to add please share below and I will flow these in."

 

March 30, 2021 9:10 am  #1663


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

"Sean, That you would re post Upside's post on your thread speaks volumes to me, thank you!

I've been helped by many people in this forum, I want you to know, that you are definitely one of those people.  Thank you for helping us! Take care and be well!" longwayhome

I second that emotion.

 

March 30, 2021 1:00 pm  #1664


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thanks for posting longwayhome and MyExodus. If you can, please let me know where you are in your journeys and particularly how your son (longwayhome) and daughter (MyExodus) are coping with your situations. In response to 2naive's questions: 

1. I'm more than 3 years out from D day and still trying to get my head around things.

Gosh...so sorry you're still struggling my friend. Question: are you still married? 

2. Do straight men suspect or know a closeted gay man easily? Especially when discussing women ie; finding them attractive or sexually desirable?

I reckon you'd have to ask a straight man my friend as I am 100% gay, with zero attraction to women. However, I am happy to share my personal experience and opinions so here goes. Most straight men I know, like my brother-in-law, are totally clueless when it comes to gay men and they have zero gaydar. In my experience, straight (and not straight acting) men see homosexuality like they see modern art: they just don't get it. However, if a "straight" man talks about the gays, acts anti-gay, and constantly labels others "gay" or "f*ggot" then I just assume he's closeted. Women, on the other hand, can usually sniff out a gay man in about 10 seconds. 

3. How do they, both the closeted gay and straights tend to deal with each other in friendship situations, work relationships or as neighbors?

Again I can only share my personal experience. Growing up I had a number of straight friends I secretly lusted after. Looking back, my friendships with straight males were totally f*cked up because of the one-sided sexual tension I caused. I was highly possessive, jealous, and exclusive with my straight male friends while they were completely clueless of my burning sexual desire. 

4. Do closeted gay men realize that they are not fooling a straight man on topics such as their phony marriage?

That wasn't my experience. Most of the straight friends I had as a closeted husband/father were so clueless they never even thought I was gay. I reckon straight men just aren't that intuitive. However, most women and bicurious, closeted, or out gay men knew I was gay...immediately. Funny you should bring this up. I was talking to a female co-worker, let's call her Mary. Mary and I were discussing another (male) co-worker. Let's call him Mike. Roughly 30 seconds in to a recent Zoom call, I knew Mike was gay and brought this up in conversation a week later with Mary. I asked if he had a boyfriend. Mary told me Mike was married to a woman and I commented, "Well Mike's wife is in for quite a surprise because he's as gay as a rainbow." There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Mike is gay: the voice; the demeanour; and some rather telling references to loving Broadway and Madonna. So what's my point? If you really want to know if your husband/partner is gay, just ask another gay man.      

5. Hope this isn't a ridiculous thought.

Not at all. 

6. Now that I'm aware of closeted gay men faking straight, it seems like their straight colleagues are playing along too or are they expressing doubts among each other when the gay man is not present?

Again I reckon you don't understand how truly indifferent/clueless straight men are about gay men and homosexuality. Most straight guys I know can't even find the mustard in their fridges, let alone determine a man's sexuality. And if a supposed "straight" guy obsesses about another man's sexuality, he's probably closeted himself.

I hope I've answered your questions 2naive. If not, please feel free to post again. Be well! 

Last edited by Séan (March 30, 2021 1:31 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

March 31, 2021 12:31 am  #1665


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

"Women, on the other hand, can usually sniff out a gay man in about 10 seconds. "
I do not agree with Sean on this statement. If women can sniff out a gay man that easily, why do we marry them? Also had this been true, I would not have stayed in a marriage for 38 years whilst knowing my STBX is gay. I did not realize that he is gay until he told me in so many words. He actually told me "and by the way I am gay"(his exact words)  7 months ago in a raher aggresive way. He also appointed about 5 male employees in the past two years who are gay and I was oblivious to the fact that these men were either married to men or have a relationship with a man. I really wish that I had that gay radar! My brother who is 100% straight did tell me that he always thought my husband could be gay, unluckily after the fact. My husband's sister, who is also gay and with whom he has a  close relationship, was very suprised when my husband came out as being gay at the age of nearly 61 years. Like me, she never suspected anything. My point is that contrary to Sean's statement, not all woman have gay radars.

 

March 31, 2021 3:27 am  #1666


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for posting 2naive and Oliviap. In reply:

2naive:

1. I notice closeted gay men interacting with obvious straight men and wonder if the closeted man attempts to fit in with the straight guy's talk of lusting after women or if they stay silent. How did you deal with 'guy talk' regarding the straight men around you checking out women. It seems like a closeted gay man would try to keep his cover and would have to fake some sort of a reply? These thoughts got me wondering what my ex said about me, his spouse, to straight men.

We older gay men will sometimes lower our voices and "butch it up" when around straight guys. Pre-COVID it was something I joked about with my gay friends..."Ok so everybody put on your straight voice now because we're going out." In response to your questions, I myself was terrible at guy talk because, like a lot of gay men, I had zero interest in organized sports and man hobbies. I was good at pretending I was interested in women because I'd been doing it since age 5 or 6 when I was first asked, "Do you have a girlfriend?" Where I really excelled was in giving Oscar-worthy performances as "the perfect husband" in front of friends and family. Like a lot of gay men, I was super attentive to the needs of others (think of any business-class American Airlines steward or hairdresser). For me personally, I was very attentive and loving towards my wife, particularly in front of others, but it was 100% platonic.  

Oliviap:

2. "Women, on the other hand, can usually sniff out a gay man in about 10 seconds." I do not agree with Sean on this statement. If women can sniff out a gay man that easily, why do we marry them?

Is there a face palm emoji? You are 100% correct! 

2. Also had this been true, I would not have stayed in a marriage for 38 years whilst knowing my STBX is gay. I did not realize that he is gay until he told me in so many words. He actually told me "and by the way I am gay"(his exact words)  7 months ago in a rather aggressive way.

Wow...what a pr*ck! Again fair points although most straight wives I interact with instinctively knew something was wrong at the start of their relationships because he never seemed interested in (hetero) sex. And most women start playing detective because they no longer have sex with their closeted husbands. Question: how was your sex life with this man? 

3. He also appointed about 5 male employees in the past two years who are gay and I was oblivious to the fact that these men were either married to men or have a relationship with a man.

Understood. 

4. I really wish that I had that gay radar! My brother who is 100% straight did tell me that he always thought my husband could be gay, unluckily after the fact.

Interesting. Question: did your brother say it from the beginning or just recently? 

5. My husband's sister, who is also gay and with whom he has a  close relationship, was very surprised when my husband came out as being gay at the age of nearly 61 years.

Age/generation may explain the disconnect with my prior "gaydar" post and your experience. Allow me to explain. In my experience, the older the generation, the darker the closet and deeper the denial. While younger people in their teens and 20s have fewer issues with being LGBTQ, 40-somethings like me are divided between the "out and proud" and "discreet" people who still prefer to pass as straight. With my 50-60 year old friends, many still suffer from a form of PTSD because, for that generation, being gay often meant lost jobs, isolation from friends and family, and sometimes jail for "lewd conduct."  

6. Like me, she never suspected anything. My point is that contrary to Sean's statement, not all woman have gay radars.

Totally agree and my apologies if I offended in any way. Feel free to repost if you like. Be well! 

Last edited by Séan (March 31, 2021 8:22 am)

     Thread Starter
 

April 1, 2021 12:57 am  #1667


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Hi Sean, our sex life was basically non-existing in the past 5 years. The reason was not really him - I did not want to have sex because it was very painful. Previous to this we had an active sex life, but I never found it very satisfying. I was still a virgin when we started dating and I did not have anything to compare it with. It was only when he started sleeping with men 12 months prior to his confession that he did not even try to fake any intimacy - he told me he had no sex drive. It also was at this stage that I started questioning his sexual orientation and I asked him if he was gay twice - he denied it. I then thought that it could be his medication that caused his lack of a sex drive. He always abused me emotionally and said things to me like "you stupid fucking bitch", "you fat fucking bitch" (I am not over-wheight)and I actually said to him that he treats our gardener with more respect than me. The emotional abuse got even worse when he started sleeping with men. He is a prize prick - problem was and is that I still love him. My story is a long and bitter one but the last thing that I ever thought was that I will divorce at the age of 60. He now has a 40 year old boyfriend and he does not even have the decency to treat me fairly financially. I just wish there was a button that you can turn to switch off your love...

 

April 2, 2021 6:22 am  #1668


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thanks for writing friends. In reply: 

2naive: 

1. I really appreciate you for sharing your personal experiences and helping me to understand things from my ex's world view. It's helpful to me at my stage in this process. I'm finally starting to remove the negative emotion and "reframe" the past.

Well done. Don't hesitate to post again if you want more insight into the gay husband's mind. 

2. These are just some of my crazy thoughts about how did he get away with the lie for so long with everyone else in his life, especially male co-workers. I guess I'm still sorting things out.

I reckon it takes a few PTSD years to recover from an abusive gay/straight relationship. 

3. As far as my gaydar goes, it's mind blowing to watch a closeted gay man believe that he's fooling anyone. Of course, I would never bring it up, but honey please.....

I'm sure lots of people felt the same way about me not so long ago. 

4. I totally agree with your clarification on the generational differences. The Millenials and Zoomers are much more tuned-in to their sexuality. They keep coming up with more terms and categories.

True. 

5. My ex is in his 60's and from the south. I'm realizing that his lifelong denial may have been purely survival.

For me personally, I grew up in a place and time without positive gay role models. (That is unless you consider a b*tchy, deeply closeted Paul Lynde camping it up on the old "Hollywood Squares" a role model.) Now almost every mainstream television show has positive queer characters. Many women have asked me, "Didn't you know?" and my answer is always, "I did. But I just couldn't be gay at the time. Or perhaps I just didn't know how." I married because I didn't want to be gay. I just couldn't be gay. It was dirty, evil, and socially unacceptable. I did it to survive and will forever regret hurting my ex-wife and kids.    

oliviap: 

6. ...our sex life was basically non-existing in the past 5 years. The reason was not really him - I did not want to have sex because it was very painful. Previous to this we had an active sex life, but I never found it very satisfying.

It's very common for: straight spouses to think they are somehow to blame for a lack of intimacy (false); and for sex to be rather "meh" from the beginning.  

7. I was still a virgin when we started dating and I did not have anything to compare it with. It was only when he started sleeping with men 12 months prior to his confession that he did not even try to fake any intimacy - he told me he had no sex drive.

This mirrors my experience. As a gay man, I found every excuse possible to avoid sex with my (then) wife. And once I'd had sex with a man, I could no longer have sex with my wife. 

8. It also was at this stage that I started questioning his sexual orientation and I asked him if he was gay twice - he denied it. I then thought that it could be his medication that caused his lack of a sex drive.

Very few straight spouses actually hear "I'm gay" from closeted husbands. 

9. He always abused me emotionally and said things to me like "you stupid fucking bitch", "you fat fucking bitch" (I am not over-weight)and I actually said to him that he treats our gardener with more respect than me. The emotional abuse got even worse when he started sleeping with men.

What a monster. You deserve better. 

10. He is a prize prick - problem was and is that I still love him.

I'm so sorry. 

11. My story is a long and bitter one but the last thing that I ever thought was that I will divorce at the age of 60. He now has a 40 year old boyfriend and he does not even have the decency to treat me fairly financially. I just wish there was a button that you can turn to switch off your love...

What a terrible man. Please share as much as you like, perhaps here or on your own thread. Most straight spouses who post here regularly heal thanks to the support of kind members who understand your pain. Good luck my friend. 

If any straight spouses have questions for a gay ex-husband, please feel free to post them here. 

 

April 2, 2021 1:26 pm  #1669


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Hi Sean,

Thank you for taking the time to provide your support and perspective to this group.
I am new to this forum...I have many questions as I am sifting through the confusion around my marriage and my husband's sexual orientation. My husband and I have been together for 13 years, married for 7 years. We met around age 20 through mutual friends. In hindsight, our relationship had a slow start in the physical/sexual areas, but we enjoyed each other's friendship and wasn't a deal breaker at the time. I remember around 2-3 years into our relationship, I felt like we weren't having sex frequently and definitely felt a lack of intimacy. I confronted him about it at the time and he told me it was because he watches porn. I was confused and hurt by this, but we must have resolved things (or so I thought) as our relationship continued. About a year after that, I began having thoughts that be may be gay. I'm not sure entirely why I thought this at the time, but it was just little comments that he would make. I did ask him at the time, and he denied it. Again, things must have smoothed over because we continued on the "traditional" path.....married....house...child. I had a lingering feeling that something was off but didn't really reconsider the homosexuality possibility until about a year ago.
Within the past year he has made numerous comments and innuendos about men. He also tends to bring the topic of gays up in conversation when it seems out of place. About a year ago, he brought up a suggestion about an open marriage (not something I have suggested) and also said he would have a threesome with me and another guy (also not something that I have suggested). However, when I bring up this conversation we had he has brought up a number of excuses... told me it didn't happen, I remember it wrong, he was under the influence of medication (he wasn't).
So last August 2020 things seemed to be going pretty smoothly in our relationship, until I came across text messages between him and a former male coworker, who I am aware of but haven't met. The messages were flirty, intimate, sexual. In my mind, definitely crossing the line over friendship and also between him and another man. When I read these messages, I was shocked but also felt a weird sense of relief that I may have an answer to years of confusing behaviour. I waited a few days to talk to him about it and approached him by saying that I came across the messages that surprised me and asked if there was something more he wanted to explore. He became very defensive and said that he was offended that I could think that about him. He focused on the fact that I looked at his phone. And just flat out told me again, that he is not gay. He then deleted all the the texts.
A few weeks after that, I had a bit of a freak out on him asking him why he doesn't show me any affection then and that I wanted to talk with him about separation. In short, without getting into the really private details, this lead into an emotionally heightened day that he disclosed to me a lifelong secret about a childhood abuse incident.
Our relationship shifted to giving him the space to seek counselling and work on healing. However, he didn't really do that....and then he continued to make more homosexual comments...but whenever I approach the topic, he says that he is joking and that I am reading too into it, etc.
So our relationship hasn't really progressed much since the summer, we are living pretty separate lives in the same household as we care for our 3 year old. I have repeatedly brought up the topic, but he continues to deny and defend. Then last week, he told me he would tell me something in writing but not face-to-face. I was fine with that, so we corresponded by email (sounds weird but worked for him). In that email, he tries to tell him that the "real reason" for our lack of intimacy and his disinterest in sex with me at times is because he watches porn. I really don't feel this is the reason and I told him that.
Sorry for the long winded history above. I guess my main questions are around denial and disclosure. I'm sure I will have more questions along the way.

In your experience, is this type of denial common and how can it be approached? My patience and compassion and giving him space to figure this out within our marriage is running thin. If he would be open with me in any way, I feel we could be amicable and supportive.

Also, this may sound odd but I have this feeling that he would respond well to someone telling him that he may be gay. We went through couples counselling, which turned out to be a disaster. She asked him - "Are you gay?" - No.  "Are you bisexual?"-No. "Are you heterosexual?"-Yes. Then he left in the middle of the session overwhelmed and crying. Do you have any experience with men that disclose their sexuality when its presented in a different way?

Hope this makes sense. Please comment on any of the above and thanks in advance.

 

April 2, 2021 4:55 pm  #1670


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Welcome to the forum PrairieGirl, although I'm sorry things aren't working out with your husband. Before getting started, I'd urge you to review this excellent list for straight spouses:

https://straightspouse.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=28678#p28678 

Now in response to your post/questions: 

1. My husband and I have been together for 13 years, married for 7 years. We met around age 20 through mutual friends. In hindsight, our relationship had a slow start in the physical/sexual areas, but we enjoyed each other's friendship and wasn't a deal breaker at the time. I remember around 2-3 years into our relationship, I felt like we weren't having sex frequently and definitely felt a lack of intimacy. I confronted him about it at the time and he told me it was because he watches porn.

These are common red flags: more friends than lovers; a lack of intimacy; and (gay) porn.  

2. I was confused and hurt by this, but we must have resolved things (or so I thought) as our relationship continued. About a year after that, I began having thoughts that be may be gay.

Again this is quite common with gay/straight marriages. As I shared in a recent post, none of the women in my life were terribly surprised when I came out. So I'd trust your intuition. 

3. I'm not sure entirely why I thought this at the time...

Well it sounds like "gay" was your first instinct. 

4. ...but it was just little comments that he would make. I did ask him at the time, and he denied it. Again, things must have smoothed over because we continued on the "traditional" path.....married....house...child. I had a lingering feeling that something was off but didn't really reconsider the homosexuality possibility until about a year ago.

Understood.  

5. Within the past year he has made numerous comments and innuendos about men. He also tends to bring the topic of gays up in conversation when it seems out of place. About a year ago, he brought up a suggestion about an open marriage (not something I have suggested) and also said he would have a threesome with me and another guy (also not something that I have suggested). However, when I bring up this conversation we had he has brought up a number of excuses... told me it didn't happen, I remember it wrong, he was under the influence of medication (he wasn't).

Again, this follows a common pattern. By suggesting a threesome (and it's always with another man with closeted husbands), your husband was likely testing your reaction. When you reacted negatively, he denied he'd ever suggested it. I'd look up the term gaslighting.   

6. So last August 2020 things seemed to be going pretty smoothly in our relationship, until I came across text messages between him and a former male coworker, who I am aware of but haven't met. The messages were flirty, intimate, sexual. In my mind, definitely crossing the line over friendship and also between him and another man. When I read these messages, I was shocked but also felt a weird sense of relief that I may have an answer to years of confusing behaviour.

I can imagine. So to recap, your husband: has little interest in sex with you (his wife); watches porn (likely gay porn); seems obsessed with men/gay culture; and now has had a relationship with a former male co-worker. Is this accurate? 

7. I waited a few days to talk to him about it and approached him by saying that I came across the messages that surprised me and asked if there was something more he wanted to explore. He became very defensive and said that he was offended that I could think that about him. He focused on the fact that I looked at his phone. And just flat out told me again, that he is not gay. He then deleted all the texts.

We he's certainly checking all the boxes. By focusing on the snooping, a cheating husband distracts from the real crime - his cheating - while also putting his wife on the defensive. While I'm going to sound like a broken record, I'd suggest you start reading up on, or watching videos about, narcissism. Why? Because your husband is using a lot of the tactics narcissists and abusers use to keep their partners in line.    

8. A few weeks after that, I had a bit of a freak out on him asking him why he doesn't show me any affection then and that I wanted to talk with him about separation. In short, without getting into the really private details, this lead into an emotionally heightened day that he disclosed to me a lifelong secret about a childhood abuse incident.

Wow...these guys are all reading from the same script. If you read my previous posts, it's quite common for closeted husbands to claim sexual abuse is the cause of their homosexuality. And most of them make such claims when their wives ask to separate/divorce. While many disagree with me, I reckon it's the closeted husband's "Hail Mary" attempt to change the narrative. Claiming childhood abuse does several things: first, it abruptly ends all discussion of separation/divorce because most straight spouses are caring empaths who overwhelmingly feel the need to heal their husbands. Second, it effectively ends all discussion of cheating/homosexuality because it's now just "too painful for him to discuss." And finally, it indirectly absolves him of any wrongdoing because, in his mind, all of his "acting" out is due to this trauma. As you can read in my previous posts, I typically call "bullsh*t" when closeted husbands allege abuse. My logic is simple: if he's capable of hiding his sexuality and has lied his whole life about porn/cheating, there is a very strong possibility he's lying now. 

9. Our relationship shifted to giving him the space to seek counselling and work on healing. However, he didn't really do that....and then he continued to make more homosexual comments...but whenever I approach the topic, he says that he is joking and that I am reading too into it, etc.

Again this is quite common. Most straight spouses throw themselves into healing their husbands and marriages whereas the husband appears to be disinterested or even hostile. I reckon what bothers most closeted husbands are straight wives challenging them on their bullsh*t. And by bullsh*t I mean, if you watch gay porn, have sex with men, and no longer have sex with women, you're as gay as a rainbow. 

10. So our relationship hasn't really progressed much since the summer, we are living pretty separate lives in the same household as we care for our 3 year old. I have repeatedly brought up the topic, but he continues to deny and defend. Then last week, he told me he would tell me something in writing but not face-to-face. I was fine with that, so we corresponded by email (sounds weird but worked for him). In that email, he tries to tell him that the "real reason" for our lack of intimacy and his disinterest in sex with me at times is because he watches porn. I really don't feel this is the reason and I told him that.

Question: what kind of porn is he watching? 

11. Sorry for the long winded history above. I guess my main questions are around denial and disclosure. I'm sure I will have more questions along the way. In your experience, is this type of denial common and how can it be approached?

If I'm reading your timeline correctly, you started thinking "my husband's gay" about a decade ago. You two then seem to have followed a pattern of "conflict, denial, reconciliation, repeat" for most of your relationship. If your husband is anything like me, he likely starting hiding his sexuality around age 5 or 6. So in response to your question, I recommend you do the following and these may seem a bit strange: 

- Remember that you and your child come first...the two of you are now your priorities
- Write a "help wanted" ad for the husband you need (ex. straight, honest, monogamous, sexually compatible etc.)
- Print this ad and read it daily...feel free to leave it where he can see it as well
- Determine how long you want to give your husband to get his sh*t together or get "fired" (a 3-month honeymoon is typical following conflict but normally 6-12 months will show you how your relationship will play out for the next 10-20 years).
- Start writing down everything your husband says so that he can no longer "gaslight you"
- Your husband will again insist on couples counselling. Don't agree. Couples counselling suggests there is something wrong with you, whereas he is the cause of your problems. 
- Go to individual counselling, create a thread here and post often, and share all of this with a trust friend or family member.  

12. My patience and compassion and giving him space to figure this out within our marriage is running thin.

Amen! 

13. If he would be open with me in any way, I feel we could be amicable and supportive.

Your husband is likely drowning emotionally and, unfortunately, you can't swim with him and a three-year-old on your shoulders. Most closeted husbands aren't bad people per se. We just can't be honest about our sexuality, particularly with our wives.   

14. Also, this may sound odd but I have this feeling that he would respond well to someone telling him that he may be gay. We went through couples counselling, which turned out to be a disaster.

I'm sorry you had to go through this. 

15. She asked him - "Are you gay?" - No.  "Are you bisexual?"-No. "Are you heterosexual?"-Yes. Then he left in the middle of the session overwhelmed and crying. Do you have any experience with men that disclose their sexuality when its presented in a different way?

I've never read about a straight man crying when challenged about his sexuality. Sadly, most straight spouses never hear "I'm gay" from their closeted husbands. Tragically, some straight wives spend decades trying to coax the truth out emotionally damaged husbands...to no avail. Based on what you've shared, I reckon the gay thing is secondary. Your husband appears to be emotionally damaged, appears to be borderline abusive, and hasn't made you happy in almost 10 years. Most importantly, he shows little sign of ever becoming the man you need. I'd suggest spending the coming weeks and months focusing on you, the baby, and your future. As others have posted here, the ball is now in his court. Let him save himself and your marriage...if he can.  

I hope that helps in some way my friend. Please post again if I haven't answered your questions. Be well! 

Last edited by Séan (April 2, 2021 5:05 pm)

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