Apologies Rose as I didn't respond to your last post. Here goes: 

1. Hi, Pink - this is me too, and I’ve been wishing that for six years now. And very often  feeling very alone in the marriage for about sixteen or even twenty years now - Sean said it here. He is incapable of that honesty. We don’t get it - we’d be capable. But whatever he’s internalized, whatever stories he’s told himself…he can’t do it. Not while he’s married to you.

I believe you're referring to straight spouses like Pink who ask, "Why doesn't he just admit that he's gay? Why can't he come out to me?" This is something I discussed during my first podcast interview with "Our Path", namely a closeted/questioning husband's complete inability to say "I'm gay..." even  in the face of overwhelming evidence such as: cheating with men; gay porn; and a total lack of intimacy between husband and wife. Here are the podcast links: 

S4 Ep 3: A “Narcissist in Recovery” Gets Real - OurPath
S5 Ep 5: A Former Closeted Narcissist in Recovery Answers Your Questions - OurPath

Few straight wives hear an "I'm gay" admission from troubled husbands; often because their husbands were programmed by church communities to equate homosexuality with perversion, sexual deviancy, and (gulp) pedophilia. (I want to repeat, yet again, that there is no proven link between homosexuality and pedophilia.) So for some gay-in-denial husbands, admitting "I'm gay" is similar to stating "I'm a predator." They just can't do it. 

2. I’m finally on my way out. (After a gay stalker boyfriend who sent me dirty pics where they were playing with GIDH’s wedding band. (“It was a one-time mistake. You are everything to me.”) Multiple burner cells and a lot of BS.) And he is blaming me, angrily and aggressively: “YOU are the one putting the nail in the coffin” etc.

Wrong. He betrayed your marriage by cheating...over and over again. 

3. Like a lot of women here he is “my best friend” - charming, smart and otherwise caring. But it’s a careful constructed facade. And at least in my experience, it’s not budging. Not while I’m around; and maybe never. But my life counts too - and for everyone’s well being, including what I am modeling for the kids, I need to insist on that, and go, now.

Well said. I firmly believe that by staying in an abusive gay/straight marriage, we force our children to deny reality (dad's gay), force them to deny their own emotions (out of fear that causing conflict will somehow end the marriage), and model totally dysfunctional relationships for them. As I've shared during our previous exchanges, tech-savvy adolescents know everything about dad's other life, including the gay porn, Grindr history and cheating. But they labour under the terrible burden of dad's secrets for fear of causing mom and dad to split. It's cruel and unfair to our children which is why divorce is sometimes a huge improvement for them.   

4. I’m going to say it: please don’t waste too much time avoiding the reality that is most likely in front of you, no matter what he says. His actions are different than his words.

Truth! 

5. You can’t do his homework for him, but you need to do yours. For the kids, too. Sending a lot of love - Rose. 

Thank you Rose. Please provide an update if you can as I believe you moved out late last year. For every straight spouse posting here, there are hundreds eagerly following and learning from your journeys. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean01 (January 12, 2023 4:46 am)

Jewels46 wrote:

I have been married to my husband for 24 years and we have 3 children, the last of them graduated high school this year and moved away to college. I have known for a long time that he has a same sex attraction and I confronted him about it I 2015 due to some behaviors (getting handsy with male friends) that were getting more frequent and public. He admitted he was attracted to men back then but didn’t think he could ever act on the attraction. I offered to let him explore if he needed to, not wanting to be in a marriage with a closeted man who might come out later and he declined. In May of this year, my husband kept “jokingly” saying we need to invite a particular male friend of ours for a sleepover. This lead to us having a threesome with him and eventually deciding to open up our marriage. This past summer we played with another couple and my husband had his first interaction with a man and it was like Pandora’s box was opened.

I don’t comment here much because I usually don’t have much to offer and Sean does a much better job than I can at it but from a different gay guy’s perspective. Sorry this is so late, but I think it might be helpful for someone else. The thing with gay is that it isn’t so much about having sex with men. It is about WANTING to have sex with men and there is a big difference between the two.   He didn’t think he could ever act on that attraction because acting on that attraction would mean the lost of the marriage. You may have offered it, but he likely would not have accepted until he was good and ready to. Sure he may have wanted you to open the relation at that time but it may have scared him as well plus the whole kids thing was also in the equation (i.e. Don’t want to break up the marriage and hurt the kids).  

The thing with “attraction to Men” is that it haunts you like a ghost. It does not go away. It does not care a lick about what you want logically (Wife, Kids, White Picket fence, a relationship with Barbra not Bob). It just wants to “Cuddle,  Wuddle, and rip his clothes off” . Being gay in a straight marriage is like a ticking timebomb (there is a strong probably it is going to blow up).  You didn't open Pandora's Box. You accidentally set off a mercury switched timebomb that just needed a slight vibration to go off.

In the beginning it was like a honeymoon period. We talked all the time and had frequent sex, although there was always a realistic dildo involved. He was very insistent that all of our explorations be done together as a couple. Then 3 months ago he decided we could explore on our own and he has been seeing men exclusively. He has completely checked out of our relationship. There’s one man that he has been seeing locally regularly. Last week he took off on a trip with a man he met on a gay dating app.

Sean might have a better explanation for the honey moon period but seeing men exclusively is something I can understand. He logically wants a relationship with you, of that there is no doubt. However  the more irrational part of him wants to spend time with guys, cuddle with them, get lost in their eyes and be sexual with them. That is the reason for those actions. 

He insists he is bisexual, not gay and wants to remain married and not break up our family. He says he has has done sexual acts but not had penetration but I think he is lying. I feel like I’m just in the way and getting fed bullshit constantly. I asked him to move out today, I can’t take the secrecy, lies, and him having control any longer.
Is he gay in denial? Why does he insist on saying that he is bisexual? I would think a bisexual person with a pass to explore would be seeking out both genders for sex.
Should I seek the advice of an attorney? We have not even discussed divorce yet. I don’t know what next steps should be, but I do feel I am delaying the inevitable

It really does not matter if he has done penetration or not(other than from an STD perspective) and there are lots of things you can do with men that don’t involve that. The reason why he insists he is bisexual is because bi is easier to handle than gay. The G word is kind of big and scary. It will take time for him to shall we say better align the label with the contents of the package(if he ever does so at all). I won't give advice about the attorney and I don't know what is going to happen next but yeah the guy is probably more towards gay than bi and sure as heck is not 100% straight. Gay men can have some attraction to women, but it is like comparing a dying flash light(attraction to women) to blinding sunlight(attraction to men).. 

Hi Sean,

I have some questions. I'm a man married to a now coming out lesbian wife. I've known for almost two years. Her IG is often LGBT activism posts, her with our kids, her with friends. I'm in a holiday picture now and then. It's not that important, just a metaphor for how I feel in our relationship in general. I poured my entire adult life into our family and loving her, only to be mostly erased because she realized she likes different parts (she actually used those words once).

1- She went dancing drunk at a gay bar with a woman. I signed up for dating apps. Why would she think what she did is perfectly fine and then rage at me, screaming and crying, because I wanted a straight woman to show interest in me? (I literally wanted a straight woman to express attraction to me, that was all, I wouldn't have even met irl).

2- It feels like she's trying to slowly exit our relationship while keeping me as a source of safety and stability. I feel used, I do support and affirm her, authentically, not just lip service. Why does it seem like she can't do the same for me?

3- I'm not angry at her for being gay, or coming out, or even how this is blowing up my life. I don't blame her for that stuff. What is destroying everything is the way she's handling things and treating me through it. Why doesn't she support me as much as I'm supporting her? Why doesn't she take more responsibility for this? Why am I expected to shoulder so much when the only thing I did to cause this is fall in love and marry her? I gave up so much for her and it's like she's spitting on that. I don't expect that there's a roadmap for doing this better, but then again, is there? 

I know you can't know what her reasons are but your perspective might help. Thanks! 

Thank you for writing HereInMpls and Blackie. In response to HereInMpls' post: 

1. I have some questions. I'm a man married to a now coming out lesbian wife. I've known for almost two years. Her IG [Instagram] is often LGBT activism posts, her with our kids, her with friends. I'm in a holiday picture now and then. It's not that important, just a metaphor for how I feel in our relationship in general.

I'm so sorry you've found yourself in this position and posting on this forum. When reading my comments, please keep in mind that I'm a gay man offering a gay perspective. I have few lesbian friends and, other than some exchanges here, have little experience with straight husband/lesbian wife marriages. With that in mind, here goes...

2. I poured my entire adult life into our family and loving her, only to be mostly erased because she realized she likes different parts (she actually used those words once).

How heartless. You deserve better. 

3. She went dancing drunk at a gay bar with a woman. I signed up for dating apps. Why would she think what she did is perfectly fine and then rage at me, screaming and crying, because I wanted a straight woman to show interest in me? (I literally wanted a straight woman to express attraction to me, that was all, I wouldn't have even met irl).

It sounds like your wife is going through gay adolescence. Regardless of age, the newly-out man/woman goes through a period of teen-like exploration meaning; sexual exploration; becoming an LBGTQ warrior; lots of "I HATE you! Now give me money to go to the mall"-like conversations. We of the closet never really went through puberty because we lied about our sexualities. So when I came out at 42, I acted like a petulant, horny, gay 13-year-old until about age 44. Newly-out members of our communities are also referred to as "baby gays" or "gaybies." This may explain why your wife is acting like she's 13, but in an adult body. And like a teenager, get ready for her to fall completely in love with her first (but not last) girlfriend. 

4. It feels like she's trying to slowly exit our relationship while keeping me as a source of safety and stability.

I disagree. There is nothing "slow" about drunk dancing around a lesbian bar in my opinion. 

5. I feel used...

Damn straight! 

6. I do support and affirm her, authentically, not just lip service. Why does it seem like she can't do the same for me?

I'm happy to share my opinion but please keep in mind that I'm not a mental health professional. If your wife's experience in any way resembles mine, I reckon she isn't supporting you because she currently has all the empathy and emotional maturity of a 13-year-old lesbian K-Pop fan. While I'd suggest discussing all of this with a qualified counsellor/therapist, she's screaming at you because she is currently THE SUN in her rainbow-coloured universe...everyone else (meaning you) is just a tiny speck of a planet in her orbit. During this self-centred adolescent phase, I wouldn't expect to have any adult conversations with her. Put bluntly, you're like the annoying dad keeping her from being 100% authentic. Your relationship might have become more father/daughter than husband/wife. 

7. I'm not angry at her for being gay, or coming out, or even how this is blowing up my life.

The anger will come...eventually. 

8. I don't blame her for that stuff. What is destroying everything is the way she's handling things and treating me through it. Why doesn't she support me as much as I'm supporting her?

Likely because she and her new entourage (or girlfriend) see you more as the man keeping her from being her "authentic self." I'm going to make a huge generalization here but most of the lesbians I know aren't huge fans of men in general. Unfortunately, as a straight husband married to a lesbian wife, you-just-can't-win my friend because you don't have the right "parts." If your marriage follows the common arc, she'll start making demands to spend more time with and/or travel with her new best friend (read: girlfriend). And if things weren't already f*cked up, she might even start to make you feel like "you're keeping them apart." It is indeed a mind f*ck but there was little logic to my actions during my own gay adolescent phase.   

9. Why doesn't she take more responsibility for this?

Because she's not emotionally mature enough to do so and likely won't be until you split. Sorry if that's too blunt. 

10. Why am I expected to shoulder so much when the only thing I did to cause this is fall in love and marry her? I gave up so much for her and it's like she's spitting on that. 

I often ask straight spouses this question: if an adult son or daughter came to you and confided that their spouse was doing the exact same things as your lesbian wife, what advice would you give your children? Most people start their posts by writing, "She's my best friend and I love her..." only to then share a grocery list of abusive behaviours. In reply, I don't know your full relationship history but most gay/straight (or lesbian/straight) relationships were pretty God-awful, even before the gay thing became an issue. Based on my years of posting here and based on my own relationship, these marriages were largely one-sided meaning the straight spouse put up with years of emotional abuse and sexual neglect...even before the coming out and blatant cheating. So what's my point? I can only assume that your wife believes her behaviour and actions are completely acceptable. Put bluntly, this is her current definition of marriage. Straight spouses like you are often supportive following disclosure/coming out because, deep down, they often think that by being the best spouse possible, they can: turn back time by rekindling a sexual relationship; transform their gay spouses into bisexuals (rather than gay); or perhaps help their self-centred spouses be more like them. So what's my point? Your future ex-wife isn't going to change until she has to deal with the real-world consquences of her totally unacceaptable behaviour. In my opinion, you're enabling her.    

11. I don't expect that there's a roadmap for doing this better, but then again, is there? I know you can't know what her reasons are but your perspective might help. Thanks! 

In my opinion, you are fully justified in separating while she figures all of this out...on her own. I've just read your first post which started with: "My wife is my best friend." Perhaps it's time to revisit that statement brother. Best friends don't cheat (kissing in gay bars), scream at, and neglect their loved ones. I read that you have six children and am concerned how this turbulent and perhaps toxic home environment is affecting them. 

I have to agree with Blackie's approach on this one, namely: 

I have gone 100% no contact since December to protect myself and my sanity. She continues to rage at me, and I always remind her, "you chose this, this is what you wanted, you dont get to use me and drive me into the water to keep yourself afloat" She hates hearing that....other than that and communication for our kids, I do not speak to or even look at her. 

I second that. As I've often written here, you don't have to stay in the pool with a drowning spouse. And why? Because until your wife learns how to swim on her own, you'll both sink. I hope that helps in some way my friend. Be well.  

Last edited by Sean01 (February 6, 2023 11:31 pm)

Thank you for sharing Blackie. In reply: 

1. Sean - thanks so much. Tremendously insightful and helpful. I realize this may not be the answer for both my and HereIn's situation, but your prospective is honest and truly appreciated. 

Thank you. But please keep in mind that I've done many of the terrible things I now calmly write about in my posts. In my opinion, you straight spouses are the heroes...not me. 

2. For me, in addition to everything she has done, she is either lying outright (even more) or still confused, since her online dating profile is "looking for men". Not bi sexual, just looking for men. Guess she thought I wouldnt see it? I am a straight male looking for women....anyway, ever experience that or see that as common? 

It's very common for the questioning/closeted ex to rush into another heterosexual relationship, particularly when he/she was outed/dumped prematurely. ("Our Path" podcast host Kristin Kalbli discussed this during one of our interviews as her husband married a woman shortly after their divorce.) The most important thing for we closeted crazies is maintaining our carefully crafted facades as "straight acting." As I shared during my podcast interviews, I also reckon acting hetero is a kind of "f*ck you" to the straight spouse andperhaps community at large. While I'm not a mental health professional, I believe it's the closeted/questioning spouse's final gasp at heterosexuality while also trying to continue controlling the narrative and at the same time undermine the straight spouse's credibility. Put bluntly: more mind f*ckery. In more practical terms, I'd urge you to stay the course: limited contact and for God's sake don't reach out to any future boyfriends. If you've determined that your future ex-wife is toxic and/or radioactive, maintain a healthy distance while focusing on your own healing.  

3. Thank you again, super helpful. Hope to finalize divorce and pick up the pieces of my life in weeks (its been almost a year of dealing with this) Best and highest wishes for you, Sean.

Good luck my friend. Be well. 

Last edited by Sean01 (February 6, 2023 11:34 pm)