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July 17, 2021 10:04 am  #11


Re: Disclosure and Vulnerability

TakenbySurprise wrote:

Soon after we got married, my stbx husband could never open up about any topic.  He would often say he "didn't feel safe" sharing his thoughts or emotions.  I read every marriage book on communication, sex, you name it, I read it or tried it. I found out that his reticence was because he was lying about everything.  He never seemed to connect with people in real life either.  Because he was only able to communicate all of his feelings to online strangers. 

 
This sounds exactly like my stbx husband. He constantly tells me that he doesn't feel safe to share with me. I also know he is lying about everything. Now I don't expect him to be honest with me about anything. He is two different people. Like yours, he can't connect with it people in real life either. No friends, no connection with family. Just me. Its exhausting.

 

July 17, 2021 11:55 am  #12


Re: Disclosure and Vulnerability

What TakenBySurprise and AuroraMoon have said about their spouses describes my now-ex as well. 

Had no close friends and did not know how to make, nurture, or keep friends.  (He does, however, have an intensely close relationship with his sister.)  Could never open up to me in person or by phone, but would at times when we were apart write dramatic emails or letters to me (including one bewailing the fact that he had no friends).  Mostly out of touch with his own emotions--I would be the one to say, "You appear to be angry/sad/frustrated, etc."-- and he once told me that I was better at perceiving how he was feeling than he was (it pleased him, by the way, that I focused on his emotional state).  He also once wrote to me when I was out of town that he didn't do well when I was away, and that his identity was fragile.  He did, however, develop a relationship with an ex-student who admired him, a relationship that on both sides broke all the norms and boundaries, and she was the person he opened up to about his longing to be a woman and his belief he might be transgendered, after which she encouraged this belief and helped him "experiment."    The only people to whom he has disclosed his trans-identifying status are the ex-student, me, and his sister (in that order). 
  
  After he disclosed to me his belief he was transgendered, during the period I was trying to see whether I could stay married to him, I told him he needed to be honest and communicate because I needed to know how he was thinking so I could make a decision about my future (he had declared he couldn't guarantee that he wouldn't change his mind about his current decision that he would not transition), he alternated between honesty and silence/secrecy, and told me, more than once, "I know I need to communicate better" (but never did).  When we were divorcing, he said "our problem was communication, but I didn't feel safe communicating with you." 

 AuroraMoon, I think you have hit the nail on the head.  They are two different people.  I believe this is the result of their repression/denial/secret lives. 

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (July 17, 2021 12:04 pm)

 

July 17, 2021 2:01 pm  #13


Re: Disclosure and Vulnerability

AuroraMoon wrote:

....... No friends, no connection with family. Just me. Its exhausting.

 

I used to think he just wanted to be with me. Maybe a lot of it was just his naturally reserved personality, maybe it was a progression of his coming to terms with his own sexuality.
Pity I learned too late why, why the quietness of our social life was almost always because he didn't like people, why he could chat with, swap photos, meet other people if it was in a sexual setting but shied away from having a 'group of our own friends'. This (our life) was almost a script written by him that only turned to custard when one of the actors (me) rebelled against the words she was meant to say.
I'm angry he was prepared to threaten our future, to ruin what we'd built and more than that... Say he'd stuff all those feelings down and not say another word about one
day "fucking a man"....like I was supposed to forget every he'd said..!!

Bit of a rant but these days I'm almost as contained as him though the reason is that I'm thinking about the endgame of this chess match

Elle


KIA KAHA                       
 

July 17, 2021 6:52 pm  #14


Re: Disclosure and Vulnerability

Ellexoh_nz wrote:

 Maybe a lot of it was just his naturally reserved personality, maybe it was a progression of his coming to terms with his own sexuality.
Pity I learned too late why, why the quietness of our social life was almost always because he didn't like people, why he could chat with, swap photos, meet other people if it was in a sexual setting but shied away from having a 'group of our own friends'. This (our life) was almost a script written by him that only turned to custard when one of the actors (me) rebelled against the words she was meant to say.

My GIDXH was outgoing with many acquaintances outside the home. We had no "couple" friends. He made excuses why. The sad truth is just like yours, Elle.

Ellexoh_nz wrote:

Bit of a rant but these days I'm almost as contained as him though the reason is that I'm thinking about the endgame of this chess match

Elle

Does that mean it's time to move on without him? You deserve a better life!


lily wrote:

but from my perspective it was teaming up with the girlfriend that made it possible for me to see that my ex was being cruel to me.  it is horrifying to think that I might still be there with him.  oh man, I had not realised til now how far I have come.  I really am grateful to myself for walking outta there.

I realize that in hindsight. I believe it was birds of a feather flock together. He made it seem like she was the kindest person on earth.  She was not.

Lily, am glad we both had the good sense to get away from those cruel people. 😊


No - It's not too late. It's not hopeless. Even there, there's something I can do. I just have to find the will. Ikiru (1952), film directed by Akira Kurosawa 
 

July 17, 2021 8:32 pm  #15


Re: Disclosure and Vulnerability

MJM017 wrote:

.....
Does that mean it's time to move on without him? You deserve a better life!
... 😊

  Ahh Mj.... If only it were that easy. I have, apart from the Mindfuck...a good life, an easy life. No pressures at all, and my mind comes back to this when I think about the reasons for not leaving/leaving. I don't see myself as his beard because I don't care if he's out there seeing men, fucking women, I'm too far removed from it now for it to bother me.
I'm here because I don't have the replacement situation that I'd need that would make it worth it to leave. I do know how shallow and selfserving that sounds but it doesn't bother me anymore

Elle


KIA KAHA                       
 

July 17, 2021 11:31 pm  #16


Re: Disclosure and Vulnerability

The no couple friends thing has weighed heavily on my as we are going through divorce.  There aren't any friends "to split" because we didn't share any.  With this issue and others, I'm having difficulty relating to more typical people who divorce.  I still have the issues of infidelity, porn, and deception, but I also have to ask myself who was I even married to?  Was there anything that was real?  

 

July 19, 2021 11:57 am  #17


Re: Disclosure and Vulnerability

The answers here have been eye-opening. Thank you all for sharing your experiences.

My personal theory on this:

To me, it certainly sounds like codependency is a requirement at some level. Many GID don't seem to see themselves as full people, requiring someone else to validate their existence. They bottle up hidden thoughts because they are fearful of how our view of them may change, as we are their worlds. They fear movement toward these hidden desires as they can only exist in our image of them.

It seems conflict often arises when an independent person sees them in a way that aligns with their inner desires. Who are they if not who we see them as? What are they allowed to be? What harm will further exploration cause? And so compartmentalization occurs, splitting their worlds, pushing many to act in secret. They are quite literally different people, as they have no stable sense of self.

The 'no friends' trend is surprising. My closet bisexual wife had no close friends for 10 years and was very angry by this. When men and women began showing interest in her she was willing to do anything to keep them, including starting relationships. She would later say that she said she loved them out of fear of losing their friendship. She denied having sex with them, yet I have proof this is false, showing she was willing to do anything they requested. But this wasn't because she was thinking of others, she was afraid of losing who she became in their eyes.

TakenbySurprise, I've come to accept that what we saw was real. But much like reading every other chapter in a book, we were purposefully deceived and manipulated. We cannot be judged for someone else's deception, so we have to accept we did our best with what our spouses chose to share with us. Wishing you strength.

     Thread Starter
 

July 19, 2021 12:34 pm  #18


Re: Disclosure and Vulnerability

Upside wrote:

It seems conflict often arises when an independent person sees them in a way that aligns with their inner desires. Who are they if not who we see them as? What are they allowed to be? What harm will further exploration cause? And so compartmentalization occurs, splitting their worlds, pushing many to act in secret. They are quite literally different people, as they have no stable sense of self.

The 'no friends' trend is surprising. My closet bisexual wife had no close friends for 10 years and was very angry by this.

This is spot on. Their ability to compartmentalize is quite amazing...and scary (as the straight partner). They always act in secret—whether it's watching gay porn, chatting/camming with strangers, building up a secret toy collection, or initiating DL meetups on apps like Grindr, Scruff, Reddit, Adam4Adam, or HER (hate that I know all of these). 

I discovered my closeted bisexual husband was Googling local gay bars. While I don't yet have any proof of infidelity, I know that faithful husbands don't go to gay bars. I can honestly say I never saw any of this coming.

Like your wife, he also never had any friends the entire time we've been together...but at least 2/3 of his childhood friends are now adult gay men. I wonder how common that is. 

 

July 19, 2021 12:57 pm  #19


Re: Disclosure and Vulnerability

^^ This is very common behaviour in those who have “damaging” truths about themselves that they need to hide. It is the original driving concern for finding a “beard” to hide behind. They then unconsciously develop a disassociated personality to hide the truth from their “beard”. It allows them to live in two separate realities simultaneously without remorse or regret. Unfortunately when discovered, they seem to all to often use this personality as the de-facto self that then regards the straight spouse as necessary collateral damage on a journey to self actualisation.

Last edited by Ordinary guy (July 19, 2021 12:57 pm)


And now here is my secret, a very simple secret. It is only with the heart that one can see clearly that which is essential is invisible to the eye.
 

July 22, 2021 2:46 pm  #20


Re: Disclosure and Vulnerability

Upside wrote:

The answers here have been eye-opening. Thank you all for sharing your experiences.

My personal theory on this:

To me, it certainly sounds like codependency is a requirement at some level. Many GID don't seem to see themselves as full people, requiring someone else to validate their existence. They bottle up hidden thoughts because they are fearful of how our view of them may change, as we are their worlds. They fear movement toward these hidden desires as they can only exist in our image of them.

It seems conflict often arises when an independent person sees them in a way that aligns with their inner desires. Who are they if not who we see them as? What are they allowed to be? What harm will further exploration cause? And so compartmentalization occurs, splitting their worlds, pushing many to act in secret. They are quite literally different people, as they have no stable sense of self.

The 'no friends' trend is surprising. My closet bisexual wife had no close friends for 10 years and was very angry by this. When men and women began showing interest in her she was willing to do anything to keep them, including starting relationships. She would later say that she said she loved them out of fear of losing their friendship. She denied having sex with them, yet I have proof this is false, showing she was willing to do anything they requested. But this wasn't because she was thinking of others, she was afraid of losing who she became in their eyes.

The likelihood is that one or both of their parents is GID - that must play a role in shaping their behaviour, who they are even I would have thought.  Already the person they turned out to be before they met us.


 

Last edited by lily (July 22, 2021 2:48 pm)

 

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