Thank you everyone for writing. In reply: 

Josephine wrote: 

I only have the one email as physical proof. He was a computer wizard so he knew how to cover his tracks. I knew it was true when I found it because it was the Piece of the puzzle that made most of my feelings and observations fit.  I always had a nagging feeling that there was Something!  He did tell me of an encounter when he was hitchhiking in the 70's with a man but didn't tell me the specifics.  I didn't think too much about it as  people were experimenting so much in the 70's. He also never initiated sex, and even though it was good at the beginning, it always felt like a performance. I did always have the feeling of trying to save him although I never knew what from.  I guess that the most pronounced sign was that I had to explain how to please a woman.  I don't think most straight men would need an explanation.

What you've described are some classic "pink" flags that a husband is questioning/closeted, namely: 

1. Discloses an attraction to or sex with another man before marriage. 
2. Total lack of interest in sex with women and rarely initiates. 
3. When having sex it feels performative and/or completely without passion. 

Shhh0406 wrote:

1. I have another question. I read a post where you said that men that say they were sexually abused are mostly lying when gay in denial and using that for an excuse or last resort attempt to be a victim and I agree.

Questioning/closeted husbands often claim they are cheating with men due to some past trauma like sexual assault. From what I understand, there is no proven link between sexual trauma and sexual orientation. While I don't normally get into the weeds as far as this issue, I do urge straight wives to gage their husband's honesty when it comes to his attraction to men. If your husband has a history of lying about his sexuality, lied about watching gay porn, lied about his Grindr profile, and lied about having sex with men, you could probably score him at about a 2/10 on the honesty scale. This means that when he's talking about his sexuality, 80% of what he says is bullsh*t. So I'd apply the same bullsh*t meter to claims of "trauma reinactment." 

2. I also agree with you saying i think you made the example about someone getting caught on fire would stay away from fire or something of that sort. I can't remember the example. This is true with alot of lesbians as my best friend is one and she was sexually molested when she was younger by her uncle. She hates men and won't sleep with them but for men I think they sexualize it and make it a control thing. I'm speaking in terms of men that have been sexually abused. Sorry if this is hard to follow. 

Perhaps. 

3. I'm speaking in terms of men that have been sexually abused. Sorry if this is hard to follow. Also I've seen alot of posts on Reditt where gay men are having sexual thoughts about women and in a relationship with another man. They say they don't know where these thoughts came from but I see it often on there. Any insight?

Well Reddit is sometimes the McDonald's drive thru of advice; meaning lots of greasy opinions getting thrown around. I always suggest fellow members discuss their issues with a qualified mental health professional. In response to your question, yes we can have sexual thoughts or fantasies, most people do. But acting on these thoughts/fantasies, often multiple times, is a completely different situation. A questioning husband who loves his wife, enjoys sex with her, and has a one-time hookup with another man is one thing. But a questioning husband who emotionally abuses his wife, lies to her repeatedly, refuses to have sex with her (often for decades), and spends years hooking up with multiple male partners is something completely different. In my opinion, there is a potential future with the "one-time-hookup husband" whereas I believe there is no possible future with the latter.   

Rosecolored glasses wrote:

1. Hi, Sean and everyone else here, too! I’m still several years in to trying to cope with my closeted, in denial - but cheating! - husband. This discussion here has been extremely helpful to me as I’ve tried to cope and chart a course for our family despite or around - circumnavigating? - the denial. It’s so hard. If you are coping with someone who is supposed to be telling you the truth, but isn’t, where does that leave you?

Probably confused, particularly if you two are still living together. 

2. A great piece of advice I got was: try to stay in your own reality. The thing I don’t get tho is why he’s still lying and trying to manipulate everyone into his fantasy world where he’s not gay, or at least if he is, it doesn’t count. Why?

Because he probably doesn't want to be gay. When gay author Bill Dameron was confronted by his straight spouse, she asked, "Are you gay?" He replied, "I don't want to be."  

3. Wouldn’t it be a relief to move into one’s authentic self?

While I've never met your husband, I do remember our exchanges over the years...yes it's been years. I suspect your definition of gay is different from his definition of gay. Similarly you might have different definitions of marriage. For example, you might define gay as a man who has sex with other men whereas a cheating husband often defines gay as wanting to have a long-term relationship with another man. Straight wives often define marriage with terms such as honesty, intimacy, and monogamy. Unfortunately, many closeted/questioning husbands believe they can lie and cheat while still remaining married to their wives. 

4. Aren’t we supposed to - Jung or someone, right? As it is, I feel like Sysiphus (sp?) but I’m not the one who cheated! Just still pushing that boulder uphill…. Ugh. Anyway, the reality check here is much appreciated- thank you all!

I'm so sorry you're struggling friend. Here is your first post to me back in March 2022: 

Sean, I feel like I am living in a nightmare. My closeted-husband is still insisting I am all he wants. He had at least one affair with a man who sent me dirty pictures of the two of them having sex through my social media accounts as well as sexy text messages, etc. My husband minimizes all this, says it was a one-time identity crisis. There is no way this is true: there were other weird pocket dials, taxi receipts, strange trips. I am convinced we need to divorce, for our health and the health of our children, now 16 and 19, who have overheard a lot and who I am convinced also labor under burdens of shame and fear. 

Reading the above, what advice would you give to your March 2022 self? I'd urge you to think about that and then take your own advice now. Good luck! 

Thanks for writing Shh0406. Doesn't this sum things up?  

"We haven't had sex in 6 months and I'm starting to see this relationship for what it is."

Why are you still with this loser? You're trying to force this man to be honest and logical when clearly he's incapable of either. I will comment on this interesting exchange: 

Boyfriend: Let me give you an example. What's a type of guy you aren't attracted to whatsoever. Like physically I mean?
Shh0406: Bigger, hairy, dresses ugly
Boyfriend: The point I make is this. If I accuse you of checking out a fat n hairy guy, it'd be completely ridiculous because u have no attraction for them. I have even less attraction to men than u do to fat n hairy guys. Same thing with women that are a skinny twig . So your thoughts that I've been checking out guys in public is simply not true.

Bullsh*t. He's on Grindr, a gay hookup app, while sitting in the same room as you. If this were truly a similar situation, it would be like you (Shh0406) claiming you're not attracted to "bigger, hairy, dresses ugly" men while using an app called "bigger, hairy, dresses ugly hookups." If he is on Grindr, a gay sex app, he is searching for sex with men. Using Grindr to suck d*ck while yelling from the rooftops "I'm straight!" is about as logical as confidently walking into a steakhouse only to devour a steak all while screaming, "I'm a vegan!" It's gaslighting and it's complete bullsh*t.  

Sadly he's not alone. Many closeted/questioning men go through similar mental acrobatics to explain away why they're having sex with men. At the end of the day, he's admitting he has sex with men or is having sex with trans women with penises, all while no longer having sex with you.  

You should be asking yourself this question: "What am I getting out of this relationship?" From what you've shared, the answer is NOTHING. Don't waste another day on this sexless and emotionally toxic relationship. Move on! 

Last edited by Sean01 (November 7, 2023 1:08 am)

Hi Sean, I wanted to give you and everyone an update. 
What an awkward time! I am legally separated and can file for a divorce in early January! I must admit the detachment phase has been challenging. However, I have discovered what honoring myself and owning my voice means. We are coming up on the holidays and I told my Ex-future husband that we will not host our Families for Thanksgiving. We can have Thanksgiving dinner with the kids. My future ex-husband asked me, "Why did my Family decide not to join us for dinner?"! I told him it was awkward for us and we were still sorting through our new normal. I think he is still in denial! 
I have stopped trying to keep things the same and accept traditions may change. For example, my future GID Ex is taking the kids with him on Sunday to celebrate his Sister's birthday party. While it's a change, I welcome the alone time! I'm hosting my best girlfriends for a birthday dinner party! YAY! I also told my husband we are having a Christmas tree this year! We haven't had a tree for years because of him! I look forward to decorating the tree with my children!
 
Here's my dilemma. My hardest problem is trying to make him admit that he caused the demise of our Marriage! We had a heated discussion last night where he blamed me for my inability to love. I know it's bullsh** and blameshifting but it's the highest level of insult and injury. I still find myself trying to make him see it my way. I know it's useless! I know HE will not confess that his relationship with a married Man is the reason his Marriage ended. I have been dating a good man and now my GID Ex likes to evade accountability by trying to include me in this failed relationship. I tell him that his initial actions to invite his love-interest Boyfriend, Bill, into our lives ruined our Marriage. His dishonesty and bisexual practices caused our Marriage to end. I know it's a pointless conversation and I plan to stop. I needed to vent!

Sean - Thank you. I'm letting it go and walking into my future! 

Hey Diff I guess and Sean,
I'm recognizing that just like you said Sean there is no point in asking anymore questions. He lies and denies and isn't capable of telling the truth because he believes his own lies. Friday night for instance, at 1am I heard my back door shut (like somebody was outside and coming back in) and heard him in the kitchen making food. Mind you I feel asleep at 1030-11. I look up and the tv and the screensaver for Netflix is on. So the tv screen is black which takes app 30 minutes to happen. I know I tested it. I feel his side of the bed and it's cold like someone hasn't been there for awhile. I look down and his phone isn't on the charger. He comes into bed and I go where were you. He says I was making food and watching Netflix. I said the tv is off and has been for awhile. He said no it hasn't. The next day I ask him, "where did you go last night?" He says real defensively, "I didn't leave the house and would never do that. You have no reason to believe that I left the house because it didn't happen. I was in the bathroom jacking off then I made food. Your imagining the door shutting because I didn't hear it." Just like Sean says he changes his lies day after day and I wasn't asking him if he left the house. I asked him where did you go meaning out of the bedroom but he kind of told on himself. I think? What do you think? What could he be doing sneaking out at 1am and I've felt like he's done this before. 
Another thing is he never touches me when we sleep. This has been going on since day one. He won't wrap his arm around me. Won't even lay a hand on me and I've never experienced this in a relationship before. He says it's because he can't sleep like that and it's uncomfortable but can hold a pillow. This is one of the main reasons I don't trust him. His words don't match his actions. You say you miss me and love me but won't touch me while we sleep? Has anyone experienced this with their spouse before?  Sean is right he's gay, gay, gay. I don't really think he's bisexual Diff I guess but I don't know. It's so confusing. I think he's a gay in denial man.

So, Diff I guess, when you said "The problem here is expectations.  You have a very reasonable expectation that the guy you are with not cheat and esp. not cheat with trans people.  I don’t think he can fulfill it." Did you mean you don't think bisexual men can stay monogamous? I do think your correct and he would date a transexual beyond sex but there's to many negative aspects. He did say he messed around with a transexual that ended up committing suicide and that was the only one he actually had a good experience (sexual) experience with.

I also want to say that we haven't had sex in 6 months because I don't want to. He tries to all the time (well sort of) he'll make sexual remarks and try to kiss me and I won't because of this whole bisexual thing and him lying about it and me not knowing if he's cheating. Am I wrong for doing this? Maybe it's just an act I dont' know but I know any other man wouldn't go 1 week without having sex with me. He seems to mention it every couple of days but it doesn't seem that he cares. Prior to not having sex for 6 months, he would wake me up in the middle of the night and I wouldn't deny him of sex. This happened often but he hasn't done it in the past 6 months. Even though he knows I'll have sex with him in the middle of the night everytime. 
Sean, I am going to leave him. I financially cannot at the moment. I'm going to school full-time and work full-time with 2 children to take care of. My bills are way more then my income and I can't afford my rent alone without his help. I am emotionally detached and am starting to see this relationship for what it is and you've given me a new perspective. Everyday I read your posts and it helps me tremendously in trying to figure this hell of a relationship out. Thank you everyone for all your support and I appreciate you being patient with me through this process. You guys are really helping me see things how they are. It's just really hard and confusing. I appreciate you all from the bottom of my heart. This has been a terrible heartbreaking experience. Sure builds character doesn't it. 

 

Last edited by Shh0406 (November 13, 2023 4:07 pm)