Thank you for the reply.

You are correct, I didn't dive into the entire bi revelation in 2020 because I did not want to write a book. He did come out as bi in 2020. At this time I was as supportive as I was able to be. I did a lot of research into LGBTQ, what this meant, even met with a sex therapist and reviewed sexuality etc. I told him to take all the time he needed to decide if he wanted to remain in the relationship. He went to a therapist. I was clear and open about all boundaries.

I told him flat out that he needed to figure himself out and what he wanted. That if the relationship didn't work for him, to tell me and we would work out an amicable divorce. Several months passed, and he sat down with me and basically begged me to stay. He cried. Told me how much he loved me. How committed he was and that he was in this for the long haul.

So.....stupidly, I stayed. I believed him....and I made a lot of changes in my life. I worked on rebuilding trust. I went to therapy. I looked at my own hang ups, and dived into reworking my own attraction (because I do not find 2 men having sex a turn on, I am most definitely straight). 

I asked him to do one thing. I said, if he had any doubts. If he was confused. If he found himself still questioning his sexuality, that he had to talk to me, and we had to work this out together. Because we are a partnership. I also asked him point blank if he thought it was possible he was gay. I told him my fear was that, years from now, he would sit me down and slap me in the face with "I'm gay and I want a divorce" (it's like I had super power foresight there.....)

By not bringing it up in our 20 years of marriage, I meant to say that he was adamant he was not gay and that he had a strong attraction to me. Again....the fact that he slept with me the entire time, I didn't question this. So, I figured he was actually bi. And that he had committed to our marriage and wanted to remain with me. To be honest, I'm a neophyte in the LGBTQ world, so I honestly didn't know how the bi thing worked. Not gonna lie, I don't understand being attracted to both sexes, but all the therapists, my friends, people I talked to, and him, assured me it was a real thing. So. I believed that he was bi.

So, I made my boundaries clear. The main one was, if you return to this marriage you are making a commitment. You are promising to me that if anything changes, you will talk to me. And I told him that he would ruin me as a human being if he sat down beside me one day and said "I'm gay, I'm leaving". I laid it all out, I said that I absolutely could not do that. This was non-negotiable. I thought I had protected myself. I thought I had a committed husband. He said all the right things.

Turns out, they were all lies.

He remains adamant that he only figured it out 2 weeks before telling me. And he has said that he understands that I don't believe him, but it is true. That he realizes now he was in such deep denial. So, I guess he's telling me he faked being a straight man???

His exact response when I asked why there was a change was "I think it was gradual within the last year and a bit and I only realized it within those two weeks. I know that is hard to hear and I am sorry."

I feel like this is bullshit. And the very fact that he did exactly what he promised not to do, and left in such a cruel and heartless way makes him the very definition of an abusive asshole. He positively hates it if I say that what he did was domestic abuse, but news flash, he psychologically tortured me and destroyed my life.

Thank you for confirming what I had figured. That he's a pathetic coward, a user, and a manipulative asshole.

Now, I have to come to terms with the fact that I married this person and stayed with him for 2 decades. Because I feel so much humiliation, shame and embarrassment. 

For the record his family is incredibly supportive and have already told them how much they love and accept him (his entire family dumped me). He has a brother who is bi and in a polyamorous marriage. And zero religion in his life ever.

Last edited by Anon2222 (April 19, 2023 5:48 pm)

Thank you for writing Anon and Lily. In reply: 

Anon wrote: 

1. Thank you for the reply. You are correct, I didn't dive into the entire bi revelation in 2020 because I did not want to write a book. He did come out as bi in 2020. At this time I was as supportive as I was able to be. I did a lot of research into LGBTQ, what this meant, even met with a sex therapist and reviewed sexuality etc. I told him to take all the time he needed to decide if he wanted to remain in the relationship. He went to a therapist. I was clear and open about all boundaries. I told him flat out that he needed to figure himself out and what he wanted. That if the relationship didn't work for him, to tell me and we would work out an amicable divorce. Several months passed, and he sat down with me and basically begged me to stay. He cried. Told me how much he loved me. How committed he was and that he was in this for the long haul.

Thank you for clarifying. As I've shared in countless posts and also in my "Our Path" podcast interviews, defining your husband's sexuality can often feel like an emotional black hole. However, "liar" is a pretty black and white term; meaning you're either telling the truth or lying. Before asking a husband, "Are you gay?" I urge straight wives to first determine where their husbands are on the honesty scale with regards to his sexuality: 10/10 is completely honest; 5/10 is somewhat honest; and 0/10 is completely dishonest. If your husband lied for decades about his attraction to men, lied about his gay porn habits, and lied about cheating with men, then he is constitutionally incapable of honestly answering the question: "Are you gay?" 

2. So.....stupidly, I stayed. I believed him....and I made a lot of changes in my life. I worked on rebuilding trust. I went to therapy. I looked at my own hang ups, and dived into reworking my own attraction (because I do not find 2 men having sex a turn on, I am most definitely straight). I asked him to do one thing. I said, if he had any doubts. If he was confused. If he found himself still questioning his sexuality, that he had to talk to me, and we had to work this out together. Because we are a partnership. I also asked him point blank if he thought it was possible he was gay. I told him my fear was that, years from now, he would sit me down and slap me in the face with "I'm gay and I want a divorce" (it's like I had super power foresight there.....)

I don't think it's stupid to want to believe the man you married and to work like hell to make your relationship work. Where things go wrong, however, is believing that a questioning husband is capable of being honest about his sexuality. As I shared in my podcast interviews, letting your questioning husband drive the relationshiop bus is a bit like nervously watching Stevie Wonder take the wheel. As a blind man, no matter what he says Stevie Wonder just can't drive. Similarly, men who since childhood have lied to themselves and others about their attraction to men simply cannot be honest about it, particularly when their wives are asking, "Are you gay?" This is why so many questioning/closeted men blame their attraction to men on sexual abuse or they claim to be bisexual.   

3. By not bringing it up in our 20 years of marriage, I meant to say that he was adamant he was not gay and that he had a strong attraction to me. Again....the fact that he slept with me the entire time, I didn't question this.

Thank you for clarifying. 

4. So, I figured he was actually bi. And that he had committed to our marriage and wanted to remain with me. To be honest, I'm a neophyte in the LGBTQ world, so I honestly didn't know how the bi thing worked. Not gonna lie, I don't understand being attracted to both sexes, but all the therapists, my friends, people I talked to, and him, assured me it was a real thing. So. I believed that he was bi.

I'm gay with zero attraction to women so I don't have first-hand experience with bisexuality, nor do I have any bisexual friends. That said, I do believe in the sexual spectrum meaning people can be straight, gay, bisexual, or anything in between. 

5. So, I made my boundaries clear. The main one was, if you return to this marriage you are making a commitment. You are promising to me that if anything changes, you will talk to me. And I told him that he would ruin me as a human being if he sat down beside me one day and said "I'm gay, I'm leaving". I laid it all out, I said that I absolutely could not do that. This was non-negotiable. I thought I had protected myself. I thought I had a committed husband. He said all the right things.

Smart. I applaud you for setting boundaries, namely monogamy. 

6. Turns out, they were all lies. He remains adamant that he only figured it out 2 weeks before telling me. And he has said that he understands that I don't believe him, but it is true. That he realizes now he was in such deep denial. So, I guess he's telling me he faked being a straight man??? His exact response when I asked why there was a change was "I think it was gradual within the last year and a bit and I only realized it within those two weeks. I know that is hard to hear and I am sorry."

Again, I think you're asking Stevie Wonder to drive the bus. Your husband is constitutionally incapable of being honest with you, with himself, and with others when talking about his sexuality. So the new rule is: when his mouth is moving and he's talking about his sexuality, he's lying. So no I don't think he magically turned gay in a two-week period. As I shared in my last post, the common journey for gay men who marry women is: first felt an attraction to boys around age 5/6; married a female "best friend" to conform; starts exploring his sexuality online through gay porn; and inevitably cheats with men. So no, I don't believe him.    

7. I feel like this is bullshit. And the very fact that he did exactly what he promised not to do, and left in such a cruel and heartless way makes him the very definition of an abusive asshole. He positively hates it if I say that what he did was domestic abuse, but news flash, he psychologically tortured me and destroyed my life. Thank you for confirming what I had figured. That he's a pathetic coward, a user, and a manipulative asshole.

Agreed!

8. Now, I have to come to terms with the fact that I married this person and stayed with him for 2 decades. Because I feel so much humiliation, shame and embarrassment. For the record his family is incredibly supportive and have already told them how much they love and accept him (his entire family dumped me). He has a brother who is bi and in a polyamorous marriage. And zero religion in his life ever.

I'm so sorry you're struggling my friend. With regards to your in-laws, divorcing your husband often means divorcing your in-laws as well. I think it's common for in-laws to circle the wagons around their sons during the divorce process. Sadly, this means cutting ties with a future ex-daughter-in-law. It sucks, but it happens. 

Lily wrote: 

1. Quoting Anon: "I also have that fear - that a bi person is just lying to themselves and is really gay - but all the therapists I have talked to say this is not true. That a person who is truly bi (and not lying to themselves) does not progress to becoming gay. That only those who are not being honest about it do (and they knew already they were gay, just didn't want to accept it)." Hi Sean, nice to hear from you. I don't agree with the therapist though.  Do you really believe there are bisexuals that do not progress to becoming gay?

Sorry for the confusion. I should have edited Anon's quote to read: 

"I also have that fear - that a bi person is just lying to themselves and is really gay - but all the therapists I have talked to say this is not true...That only those who are not being honest about it do (and they knew already they were gay, just didn't want to accept it)." Agreed! 

In response to your question, yes I believe sexuality exists on a spectrum. Using my own life experience as an example, I am a gay man with zero attraction to women, my long-term (gay identified) boyfriend still feels some physical attraction to women, and both of my brothers-in-law are 100% straight. I personally believe my sexuality (gay) has always been hard-wired...just like the countless heterosexuals in my life. However, my ability to accept my sexuality, openly live my sexuality, and share about it with others is/was environmental. The less accepting the country, city, family, or religious community, the more I felt a need to lie about, hide or minimize my sexuality. So no I don't believe bisexuals can morph into gay people, but I do believe a lot of closted gay husbands claim they are bisexual as a sort of interim step to fully coming out.   

2. And if you do believe there is such a thing as a lifelong bisexual, not just someone on the way to becoming fully gay, can you give me a bit of a description of such a person please.

Nope! You'd have to ask a self-identified bisexual man that question. As a gay man with no physical nor sexual attraction to women, I can't pretend to understand the bisexual experience. 

3. Because it seems to me that two bisexuals of the same sex would do better as a couple than when they are opposite sex. And if I could hire a sky sign for a day it would say a straight needs a straight! 100%.

Uknown. I reckon it's the lies and dishonesty that kill these relationships. I have known I was gay since childhood, lied to my (then) wife/girlfriend to conform, neglected/abused her for years, and then summarily dumped her when I finally accepted my lifelong attraction to men. I hope beyond hope we're moving towards a time when people can be completely honest with themselves and others about their sexualities. Had I been completely honest with my (then) girlfriend about my attraction to men before we married, she probably would have moved on and married a straight man. By lying to her - as Anon's husband did when he (a gay man) claimed to be bisexual - I robbed her of that choice. 

If any straight spouses have questions for a gay ex-husband. Feel free to post them here. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean01 (April 20, 2023 12:06 am)

Thank you OOHC. You summed up what I was thinking.

I am honestly sick and tired of hearing about how they are "incapable" of telling the truth. Bullshit. Don't buy it for a second. You consciously made all your decisions, whether you want to pretend you did or not. The LGBTQ community also can't scream from the roof tops that they are "born this way", "didn't choose this" and all the other slogans and then claim that they were unable to face it and unknowingly used people for decades and then suddenly realized at age whatever they were gay.

And excuse me?!? I shouldn't expect my husband of several decades to be able to make a decision about his OWN sexuality and I should have been the one taking over the relationship and figuring it out? I was not in denial during my relationship, at all. I was forthright. I spoke to a number of professionals in the LGBTQ community, went to therapy, saw several who specialized in all this. I did my part. And yet somehow I was supposed to be able to detect that he was so fucked up and had no clue what was going on....when he just blatantly LIED directly to my face. I'm just supposed to know and accept that he can't tell me the truth and do what with that exactly?

It's a partnership. It's a marriage. If you can't realistically have the expectation that your spouse is not going to lie to you, gaslit you, manipulate you and just use you then discard you like a piece of trash....what exactly are us women supposed to expect from our spouses?

The more I go through this process, the more I see such blatant misogyny and this belief that women are some sort of object to use to get what you want. Man, these people are disgusting. And I can say, this is the last time I will ever ask a gay man for his input into this. Irony of ironies, I was just asking to see if what my husband was saying was plausible (and I don't have any other gay men who married straight women to ask this too, so I figured why not) because I am open to the fact that maybe I am missing something.

It has no bearing on what has happened and how he acted, but I was curious if this was a thing. And if I could take something away from this as a learning experience. It's the reason I have delved so much into the LGBTQ world, so I could provide understanding and support to the best of my ability. Thus far, all I have seen is a bunch of people who have the mindset of spoiled teenagers and could care less about anyone else but themselves. I have decided to remove all involvement I have and I no longer will provide any support to the community. I'm sure there are good people out there, but what is being portrayed and shouted in my face is not from any of the good ones. So, no, I did not put a rainbow flag on my desk at work *eye roll*. Grow up and face the real world, consequences, and everything else the rest of us have to deal with. Stop thinking you're oh so special and not just a disgusting excuse for a human being.

Thanks OOHC. I am in a similar boat. 

I do get the whole being confused and in denial part. As, I have seen it in so many aspects of my career. But I too, am not willing to accept my husbands explanation or behaviour. If he was that confused questioning etc. it was his responsibility to speak up, see a therapist, or choose not to marry until he had sorted it out. Especially after the first revelation of being bi....to then just lie and use me as his beard because he didn't want to be gay? Yah, no. Seriously, grow up.

I have major health issues. I don't want those either. I have had my share of denial of the seriousness, not wanting to follow the clinical diets, not wanting yet one more surgery. The difference.....every one of those were short lived before I sucked it up, said life is unfair, and dealt with it. I also sat down with my husband and had frank discussions of my limitations and what he would be ok with, and was this what he envisioned for marriage. I also invited him to the doc appointments when there was any discussion about different impacts/changes in my life I had to make. Because....novel concept.....yes, it was my health....but I actually looked at the fact that it impacted him too *gasp*.

I too see how I was probably the perfect target for this, as I had issues setting boundaries and listening to the words (and not the actions). And that is my focus as well - I am working on becoming more assertive with the things that matter to me, accepting that others may not agree and that's ok, and putting up healthy boundaries.

It sickens me, what he did. To think that he chose to destroy me as a human being rather than just deal with his own bloody problems. I have been working my way through therapy and doing a ton of things in my life for me and to build myself back up. I have also just wanted to give up on life because it feels like the pain is so overwhelming that it will never stop. I've made some stupid decisions (I did not need another dog lol) and some smart ones. And I keep plowing along, taking it one step at a time.

Thank you for your responses, as that was way more helpful. In my opinion, these men are pathetic cowards. I have had an incredibly difficult and unfair life....and I've had my moments where I don't always cope as well as I probably should....but I have never buried my head in the sand, used another person, or treated anyone in my life like this. And I fully accept my own responsibilities for my own limitations, actions and behaviours. 

With a husband like this, honestly, I don't need any enemies....

Okay, so the reason for my post is to offer support to Sean.  Much as I appreciate how you are feeling Anon, expressing it on his thread feels like an attack on him personally and I don't think that's fair - he's not the one who has treated you so badly.  Perhaps it might change the way you think about him if you take on board he did not marry a straight woman - she was hiding her sexuality and playing him just as much as he was doing it to her.  He treated her well in the separation. 

anyway, as I said, posting in support of you Sean, while still on the trail of my personal bugbear - the term bisexuality.  I am hoping you will delve a little deeper into your partner's feelings for women and see what exactly he means.  I'm guessing it's an emotional sort of attraction rather than a sexual one.  I mean, do you believe he actually wants to get into bed with a woman, Sean?