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October 28, 2022 8:07 pm  #2031


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Blue769 wrote:

 Sean- I hear everything you are saying. I am 57 and he is 60. 

 I definitely feel the need to define and label his sexuality! It’s my right as a wife of 32 years to know who the man is that I’ve been married to and sleeping next to. I’m pretty sure I need to hear it coming out of his mouth. I’ve often thought that he is so out of touch with who he is that he is unable to verbalize.  

Slightly different gay perspective. It may never come.  The G word is scary to guys. Don't think gay as in is attracted to men. Think gay as in effeminate, wears pink, has a limp wrist ect. The BI word("well at least I am half way there(Straight)" can be less offensive but even that can be too much. 

Also a guy into crossdressers might not be the conventional definition of gay(i.e. attracted to men). Most gay guys are attracted to the masculine and like guys and their parts. The problem here isn't the label on his sexuality. The problem here is that he is doing something you did not plan for or agree to when he married you. 

As for the BJ, less risk of STD, less prep needed and some guys are not into anal. He definatly is into men what ever the label. Also a BJ is about the easiest thing for two gay men to agree to.

As for him being of a generation where being gay is unacceptable, I just don’t know. We met in retail and had lots of gay friends. I realize that of course he could say, “There’s nothing wrong with being gay, but I’m not gay!”  
 

There a a difference between having gay friends and being willing to call oneself gay.

Last edited by Diff I guess (October 28, 2022 8:17 pm)

 

October 31, 2022 9:14 am  #2032


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thanks for responding Diff. 

---Think gay as in effeminate, wears pink, has a limp wrist ect. The BI word("well at least I am half way there(Straight)" can be less offensive but even that can be too much. 

Are you saying that he thinks of gay as being effeminate, wearing pink...? He’s definitely not that in his daily life. 

I would say he is definitely attracted to doing things that involve men: dressing up in lingerie, taking pictures of himself and posting for men and other cross dressers and trans women to admire. Meeting up with cross dressers and “light” playing (he said no intercourse was involved)- this dates back 10 years. Organizing crossdressing groups on Fetlife and Grindr so that they can talk about things and share. Paying for membership on fetlife to be able to watch trans porn. Saying things like, “Mmmm. So beautiful!” to a photo of a penis peeking out of some panties- mostly penis. Having a 3some with another man and the 19 year old, where the boy services the two 60 year olds orally. He actually took pictures of this and kept them in a private folder. 

He spent the last 4 years on Grindr seeking blowjobs. I signed up myself just see what he was seeing on a daily basis. Sean spoke about the amount of time that a guy has to put in on Grindr to get an actual meetup. I believe my husband put in a considerable about of time talking and flirting. Husband said he would not share face pics or any personal info. That’s a lot of interaction with gay men over 4 years- that I know about, for someone that says he’s not gay and is not attracted to men. 

Thanks for commenting on the BJs. He has said that he only did it because it was “easy.” I’ve told him that easy would be reaching over for your wife sleeping next to you. What he did was hard and time consuming. 

This whole thing is a complete mindf***. 

I've suspected that he has kept his sexual encounters with men to only oral and light play (as he says) because by only doing those things, he can say "I'm not gay" to himself. 






 

Last edited by Blue769 (October 31, 2022 10:10 am)

 

November 2, 2022 1:44 pm  #2033


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for writing Diff and Blue. In response to Blue's post:

1. Are you saying that he thinks of gay as being effeminate, wearing pink...? He’s definitely not that in his daily life. 

This could be an example of what I call the closeted man's "pink merry-go-round." Here we have a husband who doesn't identify as either gay or effeminate, yet he has spent years cross dressing and having sex with men. I believe this is also referred to as "cognitive dissonance" meaning that by all objective standards, he's pride-float gay and yet he still maintains, "I'm straight." I call this the pink merry-go-round because it's disorienting and crazy-making for the straight spouse. 

2. I would say he [Blue's husband] is definitely attracted to doing things that involve men: dressing up in lingerie, taking pictures of himself and posting for men and other cross dressers and trans women to admire. Meeting up with cross dressers and “light” playing (he said no intercourse was involved)...

I can't quite grasp why closeted husbands think they deserve bonus points, or perhaps a shiny medal, for only "light" cheating. As I shared in a previous post, he's admitted to cross dressing and having sex with men....for years. If it's so "light" (read: acceptable) then why go to such elaborate lengths to hide it? In any sane/rational marriage, cheating with men, cross dressing, and hiding both are more than enough to justify separation/divorce ...by any objective standard. 

3. this [cross dressing/cheating] dates back 10 years. Organizing crossdressing groups on Fetlife and Grindr so that they can talk about things and share. Paying for membership on fetlife to be able to watch trans porn. Saying things like, “Mmmm. So beautiful!” to a photo of a penis peeking out of some panties- mostly penis. Having a 3some with another man and the 19 year old, where the boy services the two 60 year olds orally. He actually took pictures of this and kept them in a private folder. 

Wow. Question: has your husband admitted to both giving and receiving oral sex? Most closeted men claim they won't kiss other men and only receive oral sex...usually lies. And lets just acknowledge the pink elephant in the room: I see nothing "light" in joining a fetish website/community, organising crossdressing groups, then meticulously planning, executing, and documenting a male-on-male threesome. There is nothing "light" about any of this my friend so you are completely justified in calling him out on his bullsh*t minimizations. 

4. He spent the last 4 years on Grindr seeking blowjobs. I signed up myself just see what he was seeing on a daily basis. Sean spoke about the amount of time that a guy has to put in on Grindr to get an actual meetup.

Correction: he spent the last 4 years on Grindr arranging gay hookups with men. The closeted husband often minimizes his cheating by claiming, "It just happened." False! The 40+ year old husband, father, with a dad bod and thinning hair can't just walk out the door and start having sex with other men. Hell it takes countless hours for an out, young, muscular gay man to set up a sex date for which he hosts at his appartment or home. That process involves: texting/chatting; sharing lots of photos; and detailing sexual preferences (top/bottom/vers). And it takes even longer for the closeted, middle-aged husband to set up a Grindr hook up. So I'd add "it just happened" and "it was only blow jobs" to the "bullsh*t excuses" piles. As far as a time committment, I reckon your husband has literally done a Ph.D in both cross dressing and gay sex he's spent so many weeks and months working on this other online persona. So no he can't just claim "It was nothing", "I'm really straight" or (my favourite) "It was just light play." Again there is nothing light about an all-male threeway, with a 19-year-old, complete with photo shoot. 

5. I believe my husband put in a considerable about of time talking and flirting.

Talking, flirting, and f*cking my friend...with men. He's put more time into looking for gay hookups than he's spent on your marriage I reckon. Your husband wants you to treat years of cheating, cross-dressing, and photographing like some one-off boozy hook up at an out-of-town trade show. That's bullsh*t. And where's the apology? If I'm reading all of this correctly, he's trying to make it sound like you're the problem for making such a big issue out of all of this. Well he's dead wrong. If his self-proclaimed "light" play - which includes cross dressing and penile sounding by the way - are so commonplace and not so bad then you (his wife) are completely justified in sharing this with friends and family right? If his actions are so light than you are entitled to some light sharing as well. Let's see how he reacts to that.  

6. Husband said he would not share face pics or any personal info.

Lies. I have a lot of experience with Grindr my friend: sharing penis pics; *ss pics; STD/STI status; age; sexual preferences; and relationship status are all very personal details. So yes he's shared a lot of personal information with complete strangers. In fact, these strangers know more about him than most of his friends and family. Again, he's lying/minimzing. 

7. That’s a lot of interaction with gay men over 4 years- that I know about, for someone that says he’s not gay and is not attracted to men. 

100% true! Cheating is like an iceberg, meaning that 9/10ths often remains under water. So I would brace yourself to learn far more about his secret life in the coming weeks and months...namely that he's had full-blown sex with men for years.  

8. Thanks for commenting on the BJs. He has said that he only did it because it was “easy.” I’ve told him that easy would be reaching over for your wife sleeping next to you. What he did was hard and time consuming. 

Bingo! At the end of the day, it's hard to claim zero interest in something (gay sex) that takes so much time and effort to orchestrate and hide. Moreover, there is a great deal of risk when cheating on a straight wife because there are potentially life-changing consequences if caught, namely separation/divorce. At the end of the day, if he's no longer having sex with his wife and only having sex with men, few of us would define this as a healthy/happy marriage. You deserve so much better my friend. 

9. This whole thing is a complete mindf***. I've suspected that he has kept his sexual encounters with men to only oral and light play (as he says) because by only doing those things, he can say "I'm not gay" to himself.

Yes this is a mindf*ck and you deserve so much better. But I reckon it's a good sign you see it for what it is: a crazy-making pink merry-go-round. I myself don't believe him when he claims "just oral" for two reasons: first, he's clearly been lying about and hiding his cross dressing and gay sex for years; and second, he's distracting you from the main issues: a sexless marriage with a pathologically dishonest husband. This is not a good husband. 

Thank you for sharing Blue. Keep coming back my friend. 

Last edited by Sean01 (November 7, 2022 12:59 am)

 

November 2, 2022 9:16 pm  #2034


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Blue769 wrote:

Thanks for responding Diff. 

---Think gay as in effeminate, wears pink, has a limp wrist ect. The BI word("well at least I am half way there(Straight)" can be less offensive but even that can be too much. 

Are you saying that he thinks of gay as being effeminate, wearing pink...? He’s definitely not that in his daily life. 

Yes, guys have trouble accepting that word. It is just too loaded. Gay, Bi or some weird label that hasn't been invented yet it is a very loaded word.


He spent the last 4 years on Grindr seeking blowjobs. I signed up myself just see what he was seeing on a daily basis. Sean spoke about the amount of time that a guy has to put in on Grindr to get an actual meetup. I believe my husband put in a considerable about of time talking and flirting. Husband said he would not share face pics or any personal info. That’s a lot of interaction with gay men over 4 years- that I know about, for someone that says he’s not gay and is not attracted to men. 

You are thinking logically....unfortunately this situation and he isn't. Also guys don't share that kind of info unless they really get to know the other person and somewhat trust them.

Thanks for commenting on the BJs. He has said that he only did it because it was “easy.” I’ve told him that easy would be reaching over for your wife sleeping next to you. What he did was hard and time consuming. 

He did it because he wanted a man(The very definition of being attracted to men).  In sci fi terms he is emitting a reality warping field.

This whole thing is a complete mindf***.

]I've suspected that he has kept his sexual encounters with men to only oral and light play (as he says) because by only doing those things, he can say "I'm not gay" to himself. 

Perhaps, but not all men are into anal(70-90% are into it) but not everyone and shall we say the logistics of the BJ is easier than anal. Also there is an honesty issues because most guys know that anal is a bigger thing that the wife would dislike than oral(He may or may not be telling the truth here).




 

 

November 7, 2022 7:36 am  #2035


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Hi Sean, thank you for your time here and help to find the answers we are desperate to find. 
My husband came out as bisexual three months ago. He said that it wasn't a big issue because he loved me, he wanted to be with me. At the moment, we were trying to have a baby. But three months later, he asked for the divorce because he wanted to be with men. He confessed he had two encounters with men in his adolescence (just before we know each other) but he didn't liked it and continue his life (I'm using his own words). My intuition says he is already known another person (a guy to be exact), because he was acting very strange and change his phone and iPad password. He is denied it, of course. He confessed to his parents that he was bi and also deny that he wasn't be unfaithful. Now I'm applying no contact because I need to be ok in order to be back to formalize the separation. But just before I left we had sex, two times to be exact. I now understand this was a mistake. I don't believe he is bi, I think he is gay in denial. Maybe I am misjudging him. I am very confused. I don't understand how things changed this fast. 
I will really appreciate your insights as a gay-exhusband.
Best.

 

November 8, 2022 5:56 am  #2036


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for writing Victoria. In reply: 

1. My husband came out as bisexual three months ago. He said that it wasn't a big issue because he loved me, he wanted to be with me. At the moment, we were trying to have a baby.

Wow. Perhaps this wasn't a big issue for him, but I imagine hearing "I'm bisexual" was devastating for you

2. But three months later, he asked for the divorce because he wanted to be with men.

I'm sorry he did this to you. You deserve better. But his intentions are clear: divorce then a relationship with a man. 

3. He confessed he had two encounters with men in his adolescence (just before we know each other) but he didn't like it and continue his life (I'm using his own words). My intuition says he is already known another person (a guy to be exact), because he was acting very strange and change his phone and iPad password. He is denied it, of course.

This is actually quite common: namely a husband coming out as bisexual; stating he wants to remain married to his wife; he starts secretly dating men; he meets a man; and then [BANG] he suddenly wants to divorce. The closeted/questioning husband often claims he wants to remain married. His wife interprets this as, "Ok then he must love me." I see it differently. Using myself as an example, I loved the role my former wife played as my beard, or perhaps as an anchor to my straight existence. I was truly in love with passing as a straight husband & father, not in love with her. As for having two (2) "encounters" years ago, I'd gage this story based on your husband's honesty over the course of your relationship. If your husband has lied about his sexuality your entire marriage, then I think it's safe to assume he's lying about how many men he's hooked up with in the past and whether or not he's cheated. With regards to changing passwords, this suggests he is cheating or has met a new boyfriend. 

4. He confessed to his parents that he was bi and also deny that he wasn't be unfaithful.

Ok. 

5. Now I'm applying no contact because I need to be ok in order to be back to formalize the separation. But just before I left we had sex, two times to be exact. I now understand this was a mistake.

It happens so don't beat yourself up my friend. The closeted husband get scared, of being single or coming out, and desperately tries to reconnect with his wife. He love bombs her or they experience a brief "honeymoon" stage during which they have lots of sex, often after years without any intimacy. The closted/questioning husband often feels the need to prove, to himself and others, that he's still attracted to women. Unfortunately, most "honeymoons" don't last more than 3-4 months. 

6. I don't believe he is bi, I think he is gay in denial. Maybe I am misjudging him. I am very confused. I don't understand how things changed this fast. I will really appreciate your insights as a gay ex-husband.

That's your opinion and I respect your intuition. Unfortunately, I don't have enough information to determine your husband's sexuality. However, his intentions seem crystal clear: separation/divorce then a relationship with another man. So what now? I would recommend contacting "Our Path" for support, sharing your full story here or on your own thread, and perhaps listening to my recent podcast interviews: 

S4 Ep 3: A “Narcissist in Recovery” Gets Real - OurPath
S5 Ep 5: A Former Closeted Narcissist in Recovery Answers Your Questions - OurPath

Thank you for posting. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean01 (November 8, 2022 6:14 am)

 

November 8, 2022 7:23 am  #2037


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you Sean for your answer. I really appreciate it.
Best
Vicky

 

November 9, 2022 12:28 pm  #2038


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

I stumbled upon this forum yesterday and I feel like I finally have somewhere to turn.  Forgive me for what is likely to be a very long post.  Feel free to ignore it because it is going to be reallllly long. I just have to get this out.  I have no one that understands what I am going through, no one I feel comfortable telling all of this to. Sean, I am so grateful for all you have responded to. I think I am dumping all of this here for a kind of offloading therapy.  Please don’t feel compelled to respond. I just need to get this out.
I have been married 19 years.  I have 3 children.  It has been a decent marriage- when I describe it here it wont sound like it but it has been.  More good days than bad.  I had a husband that I have felt loved me; he was just really bad at showing it.  Sure, he took me for granted.  He hurt my feelings a lot.  In retrospect, I would call him selfish and self-centered but he loved us in his way.  He can be moody- abrupt, short tempered, expecting perfecting.  I recall one time when my then-7 year old was cutting out box tops for education and didn’t cut them perfectly on the line and he yanked them away from her and said, “If you aren’t going to do it right, there is no sense in doing it!”  He has OCPD and this kinda tracks with that mentality.  Perfectionism. Rigor. Precision. Frugality and financial hording. List making. Rigidity. He was largely absent from day to day life- a workaholic (all signs of OCPD).  As they have gotten older, it has been the kids and me doing life together- I did everything that pertained to their lives – from homework and after school activities and doctor appointments and even down to me taking them on trips alone. Sometimes he would go but then he sometimes he would pull out at the last minute.  If there was something he wanted to do, he did it.  He didn’t ask if it worked with our schedule. He’s left me alone on mothers day for golf and my birthday for a football weekend with the guys (which I voiced my sadness over and never happened again- he is terrible at apologizing but good at course correcting, he just isn’t good at knowing before he screws up). But most the time he did what he wanted and he didn’t question if it was ok with me. When I tell the children he decided not to come on vacation with us, they just nod.  We all just got used to our lives.  (There are occasions where I have stood up for myself, but I was told I was being silly or making things up so I just stopped…. It wasn’t worth the fight and nobody wants to beg someone to want to be with them.  About 2 years ago after I took them out of the country alone, my daughter cried to him and told him she thought he hated us.  That he doesn’t want to be with us. He laughed at her and then got heated about her overreacting.  Normally I would try to diffuse the situation, but I just let her say it.  He needed to hear it.)  But for the most part, he just didn’t even consider our feelings- and not in a mean way, just in a “it didn’t occur to him” way.  I have often said that if he KNEW and UNDERSTOOD how hurt I was, he would be mortified.  He really does care.  He is just BAD at it.  One truth in my life has always been, he may hurt my feelings, but it isn’t on purpose.  He would never purposefully hurt me.  I am not sure if that is true anymore.
Anyway, Daddy just fit in when he could. It sounds bad. I know it does, but the in between times were filled with dancing in the kitchen. Sing-alongs in the car with the kids.  Silly inside jokes.  Playing in the ocean. Lovely gifts that showed real thought and understanding. When he does plug in, it is all in- and we are all so loved. He loves snuggling the kids. He paces the soccer sidelines. He takes my youngest daughter to breakfast every saturday, just the 2 of them. It wasn’t all bad.  Not bad enough to leave.  It was just lonely. And I would tell him I was lonely….but it didn’t seem to resonate.  How can I be lonely when I have so much going on and when he’s sitting right next to me every night? I was missing intimacy- both emotional and physical. It just wasn’t there. But at the same time- he’s been my best friend- we have a life and children together.  We talk about stuff. I have worked so hard and been so wrapped up in the kids that I don’t really have any other friends. He’s my life. He’s my person. ….
I am a capable person. I think maybe too much. Anything you throw at me, I tackle and I make it look easy.  So people just throw more at me and I just handle it. I may be crumbling under the pressure inside, but no one knows.  My daughter would tell you that I am attractive and the boys in her class call me a MILF (I cant believe I am mentioning that, but I feel it is important to say that people that aren’t my husband find me attractive and once or twice have hit on me at conventions…..although I don’t believe this about myself- I never have felt attractive- and certainly don’t feel that these days- probably doesnt help that my husband doesn't even want to have sex with me).  I am the breadwinner- or at least I have been until a few years ago. I have been resentful of all that I have had on my plate while he has gotten to work the easier, cushier job- I excused my resentfulness by blaming it on my clinginess and wanting him to be around so much.  Maybe I am pushing him away by wanting him around? And then a few years ago he got a super high profile job and all that absenteeism amped up a zillion notches, but I was glad to not have the responsibility of making all the money on me, so I excused it.
Last year, in the fall my then-15 year old came to me and asked me if her daddy was having an affair.  She said jokingly, but she meant it. And I laughed at her. I said, “all he does is work, work, work. He’s at the office or home. All day, every day. There’s no way.  There’s no time. He's jsut super stressed” (and he was!) She said, “well, he refuses to turn his Life360 on.” I said, well, that’s because he’s a conspiracy theorist who thinks the world is tracking him” (which is true). She said, “he’s never home. He’s angry all the time. He hides his phone when we come in the room. And his whole Instagram feed is boobs.” I jokingly mentioned it to my husband. He laughed and told all the people in his office who laughed. I have to be honest, my husband has gained a lot of weight in the past few years. I find him attractive, but hes not your traditional hot guy. He hasnt been a sexual person since we got married. He’s just not interested in it. I just really didn’t think it was possible, although I did have some questions swirling around in my head…. He talks about Susan a lot.  He mentions Cooper a lot…
And that’s what brings me to this…Before we got married, we had a very robust sex life. I remember thinking, I am going to be 80 years old and still doing this. But we stopped having sex a few months before we got married so I wouldn’t be pregnant at the wedding and it just never picked up again. I mean, not even when we were newlyweds.  When we do, it WORKS, but it just isn’t something he prioritizes. He says his medication makes him not want it. He says he’s so tired. Or that our kids would hear us.  I scheduled funches (f-ing lunches) and he would have something come up at work. I think, in 20 years, we may have had sex 100 times?  It’s almost robotic in how it comes together- hey, you wanna? Ok ill meet you upstairs. Step 1, step 2, step 3. Done.
One weekend when we were dating, I had a friend who had just come out of the closet come visit me. He was considering moving to my city. My husband was very interested in meeting this friend of mine- but he was like that with all my friends. A few weeks go by and I am at a concert with my friend and FOR SOME REASON I said to him, “If I am ever dating someone gay, I want you to tell me.” And my friend proceeded to tell me that he and my boyfriend had had an encounter. That when I was gone, he had been at his house and my boyfriend had brought out a cock ring and asked him to teach him how to put it on.  And he did. My then-boyfriend said that was all.  I believed him Now, stupidly 20 years later, I don’t really know what happened after the positioning, but I imagine that it probably didn’t stop there.  I don’t remember the next few days except that we were supposed to go out of town for a wedding and I let him talk me into believing that it didn’t mean anything. He just needed “instruction” on using this thing because he was not very experienced until he met me. It was so he would be able to last longer (never a complaint of mine). Interestingly, the cock ring never made an appearance in our lives after that. We went to the wedding…..He proposed to me 6 months later in front of my entire family and I recall feeling a sense of dread. I threw up that night. But I married him.  And I spent the next 19 years thinking about it- pushing it aside. I had 3 babies with him. It slowly (maybe 10 years later) faded from everyday thought, but I have a lot of gay friends and he was always very very friendly with them and it would pop into my mind from time to time- but then he was always very friendly with ALL my friends. He is super friendly when he wants to be. He flirts with the waitress and is "chummy" with everyone he meets. He reaches out to everyone- for a long time (pre-facebook) he had a calendar with everyone's birthdays and would reach out to them to say hello- even if he hadnt talked to them in YEARS- he is super involved in all their lives. Sends them all texts and checks in on them when he knows something is going on. He spends hours on it! I have been resentful becuase he has always checked on everyone else in the world but us- he has kept track of their lives and never known what was going on in our home…so when he would be friendly with my gay friends, I told myself I was over reacting thinking it was more.
This summer I was out with a gay friend and he drunkenly said, “I just love your husband. If he had a gay brother, I would go after him. He texts me and checks on me all the time.” And my Spidey sense went up. For weeks I sat on it until one night I snuck his phone into the bathroom at midnight and combed through his texts. I felt awful snooping. I don’t really have boundaries create with my stuff- I am an open book- but my husband is always VERY weird about asking me if he can go in my purse or go through my drawers. I don’t care- you are married to me. But because of that I try to respect his boundaries, and I had never gone on his phone before. I started at the top- I looked at Susan’s and then Sara’s. Then I saw the name of the gay (engaged) neighbor who had lived across the street- he was a good friend who was always in our house, but he had moved months ago…why were they texting.  The next 2 hours were filled with me reading very explicit texts where my husband was very clear that things had happened. In fact, in many of the texts, he was the one begging and the other guy (likely out of a sense of shame over cheating on his fiancée who was already living in their new town) was blowing him off. There were references to me not being home. How he was unsupervised. Talks about how he would make sure my kids were asleep before he came over. Many of those times I left town the with kids- he was doing things in my house or in the neighbor's. Or he would say, “text my wife and tell her you are out of XYZ and to send me over with it.”  I was right- he was always at work or home- but he was still cheating- just in my house.  That first night when I called him on it, he copped to 3-4 encounters….the next morning he owned 7-8. I wonder if there were more.  He says there wasnt..  When I ask him about express things that are mentioned (a time when I was at a conference and he was home with the kids when he suggested sneaking out of the house and picking the neighbor up at the corner) he says he cannot remember if that happened. How could you NOT remember if this only happened 7-8 times? It just feels like so many lies. I swear I could handle it better if I had the truth, but he is so truthful about so many things so maybe this is the truth???
The next few months are a blur. I told him he needed to move out. And then I let him talk me into trying to work through it. I said, Ill only try if you get yourself into therapy and go to marriage counseling. He has always refused to go to therapy with me in the past- thinks it is a weakness.  But he immediately scheduled the marriage therapy so I knew he was serious- but about changing or keeping me on the hook? It took 2 months for him to get himself into personal therapy.  He went to his therapist (who specializes in sex addiction) and only went 3 times.  The therapist “made him mad” because he “accused him” of doing this more times over the last 20 years. I worry that he is scared of what he will learn about himself.  I am 4 months in. I go to therapy twice a week. I am definiately codependent. I definitely am a disaster. We were going to marriage counseling for  a few months, but there were scheduling conflicts for a while and the counselor just wants to work on our “new marriage” and not dwell on the past.  How do you just MOVE ON with so much unresolved between us? She comes down hard on me- I need to be more assertive about what I want. I need to change this or that.  He has even had to defend me a few times.  I am so confused. He says he’s not gay. SWEARS it. He says he even hated this guy and was disgusted him. He thinks he’s slimy and unattractive (which, he truthfully is). That he just really enjoyed the attention. The neighbor made a pass at him a year before anything happened. I had him over to watch the ball drop on New years, but went to bed and left them downstairs. The neighbor was wasted and apparently grabbed my husbands butt and put my husbands hand on his crotch as he stumbled out the door. My husband pushed him out the door, but their friendship continued with texts that were funny, then it got flirty, and then it just got to be more suggestive- and then it became physical. He said that he never thought it was going anywhere so he was comfortable saying all these things and flirting. But it did turn into more- and he kept at it. It apparently never anal sex, but touching and oral (although he apparently was unable to perform when oral was done on him).  At one point he even proposed that both the friend and the fiancé meet him at our beach house to try something “new.”  Again, he swears it was because he knew it was never going to happen- the fiancé was as clueless as I am and so he knew the neighbor wasn’t going to tell him. He was just excited about texting him about it. For a long time when I asked him why he had an affair (he calls it a “fling”), he just said, “I don’t know.” But he’s been doing some introspection and says that he is just such a rigid rule follower (OCPD). His life has gotten so stressful (he’s in the paper a lot), and he just wanted to do something BAD. Something that was totally opposite of who he is. He said he has felt so unattractive and it felt nice to have someone come on to him. That it was just easy- right across the street- and that he wanted to keep the feeling of being attractive to someone coming. If it had been a woman, he would have done it with her- that there was a woman that was flirting where he gets his hair cut and that he took her flowers one day to be silly. It was the act of acting out. (and then i think about the boob pictures on his instagram).  And then I go to my therapist who specializes in LGBTQ issues and she agrees that this doesn’t mean he’s gay….and I go to our marriage therapist who agrees.  I even met with his therapist who said the same thing. They all say that I have to trust him in what he says.  But I don’t see how you can be anything BUT gay or bi to be on your knees in front of a man or rub your parts against his parts- especially when you don’t want to do that to me or ever have sex with me.  He acts like I wasn’t there asking for it and making him feel desired. I was!  I have tried for so long to be good enough or pretty enough. Work hard enough and love and support him enough.  He says, I just didn’t like doing it because I didn’t think I was good at it. He tells me that i never wanted to hold hands and so he thought i wasnt attracted to him.  
And there is more- my oldest child- the one that asked if he was having an affair, found out. The day I found out, I was driving the kids for 7 hours- alone- in the car on what was supposed to be our family vacation but – again- he had cancelled at the last minute and was coming later. She just guessed about the affair. Saw me trying not to cry behind my sunglasses and just out of nowhere looked at her boyfriend and said, I think my dad cheated on my mom. And then when I wouldn’t tell her who it was with, she guessed and called my husband to confirm it.  How is she expected to hold onto this knowledge?  How does she carry his secret? She RAGED against him and now i think has buried it. I don’t want people to know- it will be all in the paper (our neighbor actually worked for my husband so there’s that complication, too), and I cannot handle the public spotlight of it. I also don’t think my younger children could handle it right now, but I don’t want them to feel that I wasn’t truthful to them and resent me.  I also don’t feel like it is my right to out my husband if he is gay. It is his life and his story to tell.
He is killing himself to be a better father and husband now.  He knows he took us for granted. He recognizes where he has been selfish. Now, he comes home on time. He doesn’t make biting and sarcastic remarks. He is reading marriage books with me and listening to podcasts. I wondered how long he could keep it up, but given his OCPD personality, according to my therapist, it is likely that he can keep that up forever. Once something becomes a routine for him, it is there for life. I just wonder if the emotion is behind it or if he’s just checking a box. And then I wonder if checking a box is what most people are doing in a relationship? I’ve never apparently had a functional one so I don’t know what I should be expecting from life. My aunt (who only knows of the affair and not of who it was with) says, you know there is no perfect man. I know that….. so what if this is the best there is for me?
My immediate feeling isn’t anger. (although I AM mad that we went out to dinner with this man and his finance as a “last goodbye” and my husband LET ME PAY FOR IT! And he did these things in my house…. In my chair…..that he says he didn't think of me when he was doing these things (and the therapists agree!) but that my name came up 1000 times as being gone or him being free). I dont feel resentment. I just have so much sadness over a wasted life. Sadness that if he is gay that he just cant be who he wants to be (son of strict military southern Baptist father and a mother that apparently used to dress him up as a girl because she wanted a girl so badly). I feel used and disposable.  Easily discarded for someone that he “didn’t even like”- that’s almost worse than if he had liked him! I even said to him, if someone had said to you, if you have an affair you will loose 1 million dollars, you wouldnt have had an affair with him.  He agrees. So Im worth less than that.  I feel like a cover for something he doesn’t want to admit to himself. At the same time, I cant feel like he is one of these people that CHOSE to use me, because I don’t even know if he understands what his own feelings are- he is as confused as I am even though he says he isnt. But I do still used.  And I am PLEADING WITH HIM to understand that he used me for 20 years, please don’t use me for any more if there is even ONE SHRED of this that is true.
I am learning more and more about myself and him- that I don’t really know anything about him.  How did I let that happen?  How do you marry someone like that? He never told me anything about the people he has dated- he always said that was in the past and he didn’t want to share and I just accepted it,. I didnt want to pry. Apparently that was because I was his first physical relationship and he was 31 when we met. I didn’t know that until 2 months ago.  He had sex one time in high school and I just found out that the only other person was prostitute he paid to perform oral sex on him a few months before we met- and that was it. I keep thinking about how all his friends were so glad when we met- “We thought he was gay!”  How do you call someone your best friend and not know these things about them? How did I ignore all these signs? I feel so ashamed of myself for ignoring it all and dragging 3 children into a life that they don’t deserve.  I created their lives and I ruined their lives. If I can hold it together, maybe they wont have to pay for my stupidity.
Thank you for letting me get all of this out. I have no one to talk to. It was cathartic. I am so sorry it was so long. 

 

November 9, 2022 1:18 pm  #2039


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Dear ImSoConfused,
I am really sorry to read your story. I understand how you are feeling. I know you think he's been lying during your all marriage. I know that feeling. I know is hard. I am with you. 
Many of the things you described were the things I was experienced before my marriage came to an end. I was feeling very lonely, and my ex-husband wasn't consider all my emotions and feelings.
My advice and I know is hard to tell you this but you need get out of there. You are not feeling well in that relationship, your mental health (and I can see you are some kind of co-dependent)  is deposited into someone that doesn't care, and is not fair. You need to be ok and safe for yourself and your kids and with this person on your side is impossible. All these doubts and no confidence are killing you and is not fair and safe for you. 
Continue with therapy and try to look support on your close family and friends. I know is very hard but is the best you can do. 
You need to start to think in yourself and what is the best for you.
Even I don't know you I am here to support you. You are not alone. I am with you.
Wish you the best outcome.
Take Care
V.

Last edited by victoriariv (November 9, 2022 1:20 pm)

 

November 10, 2022 10:34 am  #2040


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

ImSoConfused, 

First of all, I am so sorry that you find yourself here trying to untangle this huge mess. So much of our stories are similar. It’s like our husbands are using the same script. Here are a few things that jumped out at me: 

- Their personality types are almost identical- work ethic..perfectionism. 
- You and I were so busy raising 3 kids that we didn’t notice what was going on. I bet you are an optimist. You see the good in people. 
- We make excuses for our husbands. 
- Husbands didn’t go on family trips. 
- Found an almost undetectable way to cheat with a man. Yours barely had to leave home. 
- There were signs before the marriage that we ignored. 
- Our relationships lacked emotional and physical intimacy. 
- He’s SUPER friendly with everyone. I believe this feeds his narcissism. 
- He says he wasnt attracted to his sex partner. 
- He isn’t gay.
- He wanted to do something bad. Mine called it “kinky”.
- He said that it was just “easy”. 
- He has an explanation for everything that is just enough to make me question if he is really gay or not.

I too have a long term shared life with my cheater. So many fun times. There were babies and baseball games and dinners and talks. So many talks. 32 years of marriage. 

Here’s how I look at it. Mine didn’t love me enough to NOT cheat. He didn’t respect me enough.. the mother of his children. He gaslighted me and lied for YEARS to get what he wanted. He wanted men. He figured out how to do it. He was able to live seamlessly between his cheating life and his family life. I had no idea. How did I not know? The most significant relationship in my life... THAT is crazy making. It makes me question everything, mostly myself and my crappy judge of character. 

Sean has asked me, if it had been with women, would I feel any different. I think so. If it were my daughter in the same situation, I would tell her to run! For some reason, I am trapped here, with all of this bullS*** swirling around in my mind. If I look back at what my husband has done, that I know about, it’s really enough to make me feel like my head is going to explode. Like so many here has said, it makes me question EVERYTHING.. my entire life. 

I’m sure Sean with respond soon with his spot on wisdom. Hang in there. You are welcome to chat with me anytime. 

Take care, 
Blue 

 

 

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