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July 26, 2022 4:40 am  #2001


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for writing Shh. In reply: 

1. Why do you think this sudden weight loss happens?

I believe you're referring to the "glow up" period when a gay-in-denial husband/boyfriend starts frantically losing weight, exercising, and changing his appearance to be more attractive to potential gay male partners. This is something I discussed at length in a recent podcast: 

S4 Ep 3: A “Narcissist in Recovery” Gets Real - OurPath

To listen to a closeted man's glow up being part of the coming out process, skip to 01H:15MIN:50SECS.  

2. I agree just wondered what your opinion was? My boyfriend used to weigh 30 pounds more about 6 months before meeting and started working out and got really skinny. 

As I discussed in the above podcast, the closeted male's perception of the gay community often comes from gay porn so he sometimes (wrongly) believes he has to be a tanned, handsome, buff, body shaved 20-something to attract a partner. So rapid weight loss, an obsessive interest in physical fitness, and a total change in appearance are signs that your husband/boyfriend might not be straight. 

I hope I've answered your questions but please feel free to write again. Be well! 

 

July 27, 2022 4:04 am  #2002


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Abuse by counselor: I know, you said beware but I just did it anyway. Ouch.
   I’ve loved my husband for more thank 30 years, first read every marriage book under the sun, trying to fix it, and then a lot of gay identity books (Isay, just now your Velvet Rage) trying to understand it: why would he stay married if he wanted to cheat? Could it have been a one-time identity crisis which I should forgive, if I were a kind person? Years of his not having orgasms (I asked, for years - was it me or was it the Zoloft?) yup, the dry kisses. And the dog in between us in bed. Not to mention the boyfriend/stalker with his pictures of himself snd my husband having sex. That he sent me over my social media accounts.
    But I do love my husband. So I’ve been trying, still, to see if we could stay married. I think I mentioned, we even flew to Detroit to see Joe Kort.  My husband kept drinking a lot, and traveling a lot, but I thought we had a chance. Then I found a second burner cell - had found a first with that earlier affair. So I started moving to a split then we had to take care of our son, now in a somewhat better place. And turning back to our relationship , I agreed to yet another counselor.
    Who told me it was on me to forgive. That my husband was sitting here now, and that was all that mattered. That I needed to turn my heart from hate. That my life would be full of hate if I didn’t come back to this man who clearly wanted to make it work now.  That I should understand that there is flexibility in our desires, and that we sometime slip. He asked if the situation were reversed, wouldn’t I want to be forgiven?
    Ugh. The situation would never be reversed, not because I can’t mess up royally, but because I could never sustain the lying. I’m actually bad at it - blunt to a fault, maybe.
     I am angry. There’s nothing more that I want right now than to have it all go away, to go crawl up around the dog next to my partner of more than 30 years and be comforted. But. It would be dangerous, Because, there are no magic wands and that’s not all of him, up there. Part of him is somewhere else, and that part is going to hurt me again. Or get drunk and hurt him. But it’s not going away, not this way.
      And somehow, it’s on me?

 

July 27, 2022 10:41 pm  #2003


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for writing Rose. In reply: 

1. Abuse by counselor: I know, you said beware but I just did it anyway. Ouch.

I don't remember any such warning, however, couples counselling rarely works with gay/straight marriages. 

2. I’ve loved my husband for more thank 30 years, first read every marriage book under the sun, trying to fix it, and then a lot of gay identity books (Isay, just now your Velvet Rage) trying to understand it: why would he stay married if he wanted to cheat? Could it have been a one-time identity crisis which I should forgive, if I were a kind person? Years of his not having orgasms (I asked, for years - was it me or was it the Zoloft?) yup, the dry kisses. And the dog in between us in bed. Not to mention the boyfriend/stalker with his pictures of himself snd my husband having sex. That he sent me over my social media accounts.
   
I have always maintained that sexual neglect and/or sexual starvation are abuse. 

3. But I do love my husband...

There comes a time in all gay/straight relationships when the straight spouse realizes she was truly in love with an abuser. Question: would you urge your daughter to stay with a husband who acted the same way? 

4. So I’ve been trying, still, to see if we could stay married. I think I mentioned, we even flew to Detroit to see Joe Kort.  My husband kept drinking a lot, and traveling a lot, but I thought we had a chance. Then I found a second burner cell - had found a first with that earlier affair. So I started moving to a split then we had to take care of our son, now in a somewhat better place. And turning back to our relationship , I agreed to yet another counselor.
   
We've all done this.

5. Who told me it was on me to forgive.

Bullsh*t. 

6. That my husband was sitting here now, and that was all that mattered. That I needed to turn my heart from hate.

Hate? That makes zero sense. 

7. That my life would be full of hate if I didn’t come back to this man who clearly wanted to make it work now.  That I should understand that there is flexibility in our desires, and that we sometime slip.

"Slip" is perhaps the understatement of the century. There is "slipping" like having a one-time fling on a business trip. Then there is your husband: multiple burner phones; midnight runs to boystown; decades without sex; and his boyfriend sending you explicit pictures. I'd qualify all of that as a "mudslide" of dishonesty. 

8. He asked if the situation were reversed, wouldn’t I want to be forgiven? Ugh. The situation would never be reversed, not because I can’t mess up royally, but because I could never sustain the lying. I’m actually bad at it - blunt to a fault, maybe.

This follows a common script. The couple goes to counselling, the wife appears stronger than him, the counsellor focuses completely on the gay husband's "sad sausage" issues (sexuality, abuse, etc), and then she's painted as the bad partner for not being supportive enough. It's complete horsesh*t. 

9. I am angry.

F*cking FINALLY!!!

10. There’s nothing more that I want right now than to have it all go away, to go crawl up around the dog next to my partner of more than 30 years and be comforted. But. It would be dangerous, Because, there are no magic wands and that’s not all of him, up there. Part of him is somewhere else, and that part is going to hurt me again. Or get drunk and hurt him. But it’s not going away, not this way.
     
You've reached that point in all gay/straight relationships where you have two choices: 1. continue riding his pink crazy-go-round; 2. save your dignity and sanity by getting the f*ck off and getting the f*ck out of this toxic, abusive, and soul-destroying relationship. 

11. And somehow, it’s on me?

The only person you're responsable to is yourself. It sounds like you're now at a point where you're ready to focus on your happiness, your mental health, and your own sanity. Anger can be a good thing because it helps us focus on facts & reality. You deserve better than a sexless, toxic, dishonest marriage to an alcoholic, cheating husband. 

Hope that doesn't sting too much my friend. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean01 (July 31, 2022 7:09 am)

 

July 30, 2022 9:20 am  #2004


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Just a note here to say you were SO right. I’ve been using all my energy to get through the first 4 months being a full time single mom of 5, but kept noticing things as this horrible drama plays out. Things like my ex is doing all the wonderful Dad things he never once did while living here. And the kids eat it up, starved for his attention until now. He takes them out, brings dinner over, listens to them, emotionally connects - and then mentions to me sometimes how great this is that he can do that and go home to not have to deal with their constant annoying kid stuff and tantrums anymore for 90% of the time. It’s good for them, hard for me to watch.

I noticed that he actually was never molested as he’s always claimed! Sometimes he’s very raw and open, so I asked about that. He described the 2 times and it was actually boys fooling around, not anything forced or abusive. I know you’ve mentioned this!! I listened without commenting but the script is changed in my eyes!

For the first few weeks we were going on walks to talk about how we were dealing with the separation, sometimes grocery shopping together or texting about things. Then once he said we were both abusive to each other. It turned into an argument because I got really angry at that. He was yelling that I abused him as much as he did me! I was quiet but so angry. I kept pushing him for examples, which he said no one could think of on the spot. I rattled off a dozen of his abuses of me very quickly! He kept saying vague things about me being unreasonable.

Finally he said the abuse was that most days of our 17 year marriage, I showed an expression of terror and disgust at him, like I was afraid of him. It hurt him so deeply that he can never recover. It made him feel like a bad person. Can you believe that?!?! Since then I stopped doing extra things with him. I see him when he comes for weekly dinner, usually go out to shop and run errands then. This was completely crazy, him having to also be a victim. Emotions are not abusive to other people! Me being scared of him was fitting for how he constantly mistreated and manipulated me!

You said that he will probably lie and act like a victim. You told me to take his words and hold them lightly as lies or partial truths until I can see what’s true. You didn’t share my hopes of a really harmonious separation where he’s now miraculously healed of being abusive or manipulative. I took all of that to heart because it seemed likely. Still, I really, really wanted him to be a good person who’s trustworthy now. But I can see he’s a along way off.

Last edited by LMM (July 30, 2022 9:24 am)

 

July 30, 2022 4:24 pm  #2005


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for the update LMM. In reply: 

1. Just a note here to say you were SO right. I’ve been using all my energy to get through the first 4 months being a full time single mom of 5, but kept noticing things as this horrible drama plays out. Things like my ex is doing all the wonderful Dad things he never once did while living here. And the kids eat it up, starved for his attention until now. He takes them out, brings dinner over, listens to them, emotionally connects - and then mentions to me sometimes how great this is that he can do that and go home to not have to deal with their constant annoying kid stuff and tantrums anymore for 90% of the time. It’s good for them, hard for me to watch.

I can imagine.

2. I noticed that he actually was never molested as he’s always claimed! Sometimes he’s very raw and open, so I asked about that. He described the 2 times and it was actually boys fooling around, not anything forced or abusive. I know you’ve mentioned this!! I listened without commenting but the script is changed in my eyes!

I hate to be wrong...but it's best to adopt a "believe but verify" approach when (future) gay (ex) husbands claim "sexual abuse made me gay." 

3. For the first few weeks we were going on walks to talk about how we were dealing with the separation, sometimes grocery shopping together or texting about things. Then once he said we were both abusive to each other. It turned into an argument because I got really angry at that.

Good. Anger means you're no longer buying into his bullsh*t. 

4. He was yelling that I abused him as much as he did me! I was quiet but so angry. I kept pushing him for examples...

Smart. 

5. ...which he said no one could think of on the spot. I rattled off a dozen of his abuses of me very quickly! He kept saying vague things about me being unreasonable.

In my opinion, there is quite a difference between being "unreasonable" and being an abuser. I reckon he's labelling you as "unreasonable" because you're no longer going along with his bullsh*t logic. 

6. Finally he said the abuse was that most days of our 17 year marriage, I showed an expression of terror and disgust at him, like I was afraid of him. It hurt him so deeply that he can never recover. It made him feel like a bad person. Can you believe that?!?!

Wow what an idiot. 

7. Since then I stopped doing extra things with him.

Well done. While you can't control him nor his emotions, you can limit or even cut off contact. The word I used when we last spoke was "radioactive." If you determine that your future ex-husband is radioactive then you're completely justified in limiting contact with him for your own safety and sanity. 

8. I see him when he comes for weekly dinner, usually go out to shop and run errands then. This was completely crazy, him having to also be a victim. Emotions are not abusive to other people! Me being scared of him was fitting for how he constantly mistreated and manipulated me!

This broken logic smacks of, "You made me feel badly just after I punched you in the face." I reckon your future ex-husband can start hosting the kids in his own space for weekly dinners. 

9. You said that he will probably lie and act like a victim. You told me to take his words and hold them lightly as lies or partial truths until I can see what’s true. You didn’t share my hopes of a really harmonious separation where he’s now miraculously healed of being abusive or manipulative.

Sorry if that hurt but my predictions sadly appear to have come true. 

10. I took all of that to heart because it seemed likely. Still, I really, really wanted him to be a good person who’s trustworthy now. But I can see he’s a along way off.

Straight wives can't just will their husbands to be better people, nor to act more sanely. I don't believe closeted husbands are bad people per se, but I do believe we are often so mentally and emotionally impaired that we try to distort reality...not unlike your abusive husband convincing himself that you abused him. So what's my point? I would recommend you consult with your therapist on how to limit and/or cut off contact with your future ex-husband, perhaps by letting dad take the kids in his space for family meals/visits and also having a trusted family member handle the child transfers. This will give you the necessary time and distance to heal from what was apparently a very toxic, abusive, and damaging relationship. 

I hope that helps in some way my friend. Be well! 

 

August 3, 2022 8:03 am  #2006


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Sean hi. Thank you for all the work you do. Sorry yet another question re husband gay or not. I found gay porn and history searches looking for gay bars/gay cruising. I haven't got concrete evidence that he cheated with a man. He denies he is gay, and he was just curious (!) because he is highly sexual and I wasn’t "putting out" enough. He claims he considered it as an easy way to get laid. When I found the porn, etc I initially thought that it would explain so many things about him as he can quite often be angry (not violent) and my thought was it would explain the frustration he carries inside. 

My question I guess is the sex. We are not having sex for over a year and are sleeping separately but it is my doing. I have developed an aversion to sex and intimacy with him. I am trying to get over it and step over the internal barrier, but I struggle to know if my body is correct in developing this aversion as a signal something is wrong or if it is something I need to get over and just start doing again and it will get better. I don’t think the aversion is exactly linked to the gay discovery; it started  happening a bit earlier but that hasn’t helped for sure.
My husband says he can’t be gay as he wants sex all the time with me. I am the problem. Can a closeted gay man still be wanting sex with a woman? and if he looked to hook up with men (which I have proof of) is it possible he never did? Would be good to catch him in the act; it would give me some piece and answers; but so far I only have the evidence I have. What would you make if it? You often say the sex goes as soon as men starts exploring their sexuality; but he does keep trying to initiate sex with me. Thank you so much! Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

 

August 4, 2022 1:05 pm  #2007


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for writing kovyvoly. In reply: 

1. I found gay porn and history searches looking for gay bars/gay cruising. I haven't got concrete evidence that he cheated with a man. He denies he is gay, and he was just curious (!) because he is highly sexual and I wasn’t "putting out" enough.

Bullsh*t. He's lying and this follows a common pattern: evidence "gay search history"; minimization "just curious"; and a blame shift "you're not giving me enough sex." No one just looks up "Mexican restaurants" because they're curious. It's because that person wants to eat Mexican food. Similarly your husband is looking for gay bars and gay cruising spots because he's looking for gay sex. If he says otherwise, he's insulting your intelligence. 

2. He claims he considered it as an easy way to get laid. When I found the porn, etc I initially thought that it would explain so many things about him as he can quite often be angry (not violent) and my thought was it would explain the frustration he carries inside. 

Being closeted can lead to angry outbursts because the closet is both frustrating and suffocating. This was my experience.

3. My question I guess is the sex. We are not having sex for over a year and are sleeping separately but it is my doing.

Wrong. You're not having sex with this man because he's likely not straight and men interested in men aren't really interested in sex with women, particularly after they've started having sex with men for the first time. Closeted gay cheaters have trouble performing with women for two reasons: first, because there is little sexual attraction to women; and second, he's often nervous about giving his wife/girlfriend an STI/STD. 

4. I have developed an aversion to sex and intimacy with him.

Likely because you believe he's having sex with men and your body is rejecting him. This is a common occurrence. 

5. I am trying to get over it and step over the internal barrier, but I struggle to know if my body is correct in developing this aversion as a signal something is wrong or if it is something I need to get over and just start doing again and it will get better. I don’t think the aversion is exactly linked to the gay discovery; it started  happening a bit earlier but that hasn’t helped for sure.

The body often leads the mind. I'd trust your intuition friend. If and when he attempts to re-initiate sex, please only practice safe sex...meaning condoms.  

6. My husband says he can’t be gay as he wants sex all the time with me.

Words. If you're not having sex, then clearly he doesn't want to have sex with you because he's not having sex with you. I can claim to love exercise and even repeat this to my friends and family, but if I truly love exercise/fitness, I need to prove it by hitting the gym. Words without action are nothing = bullsh*t. 

7. I am the problem.

False! 

8. Can a closeted gay man still be wanting sex with a woman?

Closeted gay men are very good at pretending to want sex with women, particularly when performing in front of friends and family. However, the proof is in the lack of sex. Words are meaningless unless there is some form of action. 
 
9. and if he looked to hook up with men (which I have proof of) is it possible he never did?

Let's look at the facts: you haven't had sex in a year and he's searching for gay bars and gay cruising spots. Some telltale signs a closeted husband is having sex with men: 

- Sex stops between husband and wife
- An obsessive interest in physical fitness
- New haircut, new glasses, new (sexy) underwear, and a new wardrobe
- Body shaving
- Condoms and Viagra, even though he's no longer having sex with her

10. Would be good to catch him in the act; it would give me some peace and answers; but so far I only have the evidence I have.

Evidence that is already substantial in my opinion. 

11. What would you make if it? You often say the sex goes as soon as men starts exploring their sexuality; but he does keep trying to initiate sex with me.

The word is "initiate" but you haven't confirmed you're having penis-in-vagina sex. I'm going to guess that he's pretending like he's sexually interested in you but unfortunately it's "all gas, no gages" as the English say. If he's Googling gay bars, cruising parks, and chatting online with other men, this is quite strong evidence he "ain't straight." 

12. Thank you so much! Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

I'd urge you to try individual counselling, perhaps online counselling with a therapist who has experience with these particular issues. Please keep coming back and sharing your story. Be well! 

 

August 7, 2022 10:35 pm  #2008


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

I find the last post by Eliasadc offensive and I think it should be removed. He is not a straight spouse and his "relationship" with his straight friend is of no concern to me. Some of the language written is plain vulgar and I don't think this acceptable. on this forum.

 

August 16, 2022 11:59 pm  #2009


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Hi Sean, I reached out a few months back regarding my possibly gay boyfriend. I just wanted to thank you for all of your advice as I took it to heart. I kicked him out and somehow out of nowhere I met a man who is everything he wasn’t, and is nothing that he was.

I’m happy I got out and I have no regrets. For anyone else out there wondering if you should stay or go, please leave. If the question is sitting there in your head you will never get rid of it.

I can only hope my ex decides that one day he won’t live in a shadow any longer. I wrote him a letter and let him know that I will always be there to support him even if he does come out one day. Everyone deserves to love and be loved in the way that feels right for them and I truly feel for him being he has to hide is true identity.

Thank you all for your support - this group was the only thing that kept me going because I didn’t feel so alone.

 

August 22, 2022 5:33 am  #2010


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Meredith, me too - except it’s my husband of 30 years. Some good, but so much pain. Glad you aren’t going to have to walk that road.

Sean, I figured it out. Well, my 17 year old daughter actually. I said he’s going to get so mad, you know what that is, right? And she said yes, it’s the internalized homophobia. She didn’t even have to think twice, just rolled off her tongue- let’s hear it for the new generation!  And yes - that is kind of the source of your your “radioactivity” I think? It’s the internalized homophobia.  Pride month and all, we still have a long way to go.

Send us some good vibes, all of you, that we get to a safer place. All 4 of us, GIDH too.  Sending them back to you. ❤️

 

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