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May 29, 2022 3:27 pm  #1991


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for writing Crystal. In reply: 

1. Sean this is interesting that a lot [of closeted gay husbands] follow this script of molestation [made him gay].

Many cite the statistic that 1 in 6 males (or 16.7%) are sexually abused before the age of 18. If this statistic is correct, then approximately 83.4% of males are not victims of sexual abuse. Strangely, 100% of the closeted husbands described here claim childhood abuse as the cause of cheating with men and/or watching gay porn. I maintain there are two possibilities: 

Option 1: He's telling the truth about childhood sexual abuse. 
Option 2: He's lying about childhood sexual abuse. 
 
As I shared in two recent podcasts with "Our Path", I urge straight spouses to remain calm when their husbands claim a history of sexual abuse. And by "calm" I mean: remaining cautiously objective about his claims of childhood abuse as it could be a distraction, particularly if she recently brought up separation/divorce; allowing her husband to find a qualified therapist (not a couples' therapist) to do the work to heal from such trauma; and continuing to make herself and her happiness a priority.  So what's my point? Whether real or fabricated, a closeted husband's claims of childhood sexual abuse should not distract nor delay dealing with the main issues they face, namely: his total lack of interest in sex with his wife, often from the beginning of the relationship; cheating with men...often for years; and his inability to be honest with his wife about these issues. Put bluntly, it's a bit of a stretch to think that once he has healed from these abuse issues, he'll suddenly and miraculously transform into a heterosexual, horny prince charming. The reality is a bit more grainy: he's vague about the abuse probably because he's lying or exaggerating; refuses to attend individual therapy; insists on couples' therapy then, yet again, puts the onus on his long-suffering wife to fix him; and continues with the gay porn and cheating with men.  

2. Why do you think that is? 

I personally believe that "I'm gay because I was [allegedly] abused..." is a throwback to faith-based reparative/conversion therapy. If what I've read about conversion therapy is correct, claiming abuse made me gay is one of many debunked claims. There are others: 

- I'm gay because my father was (absent/distant/never there)...
- I'm gay because my mother was overbearing...

There are probably more. I personally believe that when the straight spouse is seriously considering separation/divorce, her closeted husband panics and claims "I'm having sex with men because I was molested as a child." And I believe he does this because he's not yet ready to accept that he was born gay.   

3. What is logic in the connection of molestation and being gay?

I have no idea so I reached out to my friend and esteemed psychotherapist Dr. Joe Kort to ask that same question. Joe stated unequivocally that there is no proven link between childhood abuse and sexual orientation. In brief, claims of "abuse made me gay" are bullsh*t. 

I hope I've answered your questions. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (May 30, 2022 12:59 am)

 

June 6, 2022 7:35 am  #1992


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

If anyone wants to see just how practiced, charming, and disarming a closeted husband can be when confronted about his sexuality, look no further than reality TV personality Todd Chrisley. This interview from 2016 is a master class in how to obfuscate about your homosexuality: 

https://youtu.be/isVwUJxTJYQ

Todd certainly sets off my gaydar and 100% of the gay men I've asked also say, "Gay!" So what are the classic signs a husband is gay-in-denial? Here is a brief checklist: 

1. Bullied in school for being "gay."
2. Discloses a "same sex attraction" or high school boyfriend but claims "that's all over now." 
3. Little to no interest in sex with his wife nor any other women.
4. Attaches a lot of conditions to sex with his wife (lights off, only certain positions, you have to shower, no kissing etc). 
5. Acts very straight and sexual when performing for others but once "off-stage" little to no signs of affection towards his wife. 
5. Exclusively gay porn, chat history, or a history of cheating with men. 
6. If he is preparing to cheat or is actively cheating with men, the telltale signs are: sudden weight loss + obsessive interest in physical fitness and a new look (glasses, clothes, underwear, haircut). 
7. He'll use but also hide things like condoms, Viagra, and sex toys from his wife. And why? Because he's using them to cheat, while at the same time giving his wife a multitude of excuses not to have sex with her.  

With regards to cheating with men, the closeted husband who cheats will typically stop having sex with his wife, for several reasons: first, he's afraid of giving her an STD/STI; second, he can't ask to use condoms without arousing her suspicions; and third, once he's had sex with a man he's incapable of having sex with his wife. 

If anyone has questions for a gay ex-husband, feel free to post below. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (June 6, 2022 7:36 am)

 

June 29, 2022 5:19 am  #1993


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Sean, I have a question: what goes through their minds when they sit there and lie to your face? Even when I’m making it all “super safe” for  him?  Is that the problem- nothing can feel safe? We have a 30 year marriage, a lot of respect (I can see you rolling your eyes, but yes - in all the other channels of our relationship we do well, are well-matched) and he knows I’ll protect him, because I’ve been keeping his secrets for five years now.) But he still is wedded to preposterous stories (it was an accident he got out of the taxi on 52nd St between 9th and 10th at 1:15am, no idea gay bars around…). And that makes it very hard to manage all this to a healthy place. He just won’t budge,  Whst do you think?

 

June 30, 2022 4:15 pm  #1994


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for writing Rose. I am responding from a new profile as I've recently upgraded to a new computer, hence the name Sean01. In reply to your message/post: 

1. Sean, I have a question: what goes through their minds when they sit there and lie to your face? Even when I’m making it all “super safe” for  him?  Is that the problem- nothing can feel safe?

If anyone is reading your questions for the first time, I seem to recall that your husband of 30 years recently came out as gay. While I'm not in his head, nor am I a mental health professional, I'm happy to share my experience as a gay ex-husband. If your husband's journey in any way resembles mine, he has likely been hiding and lying about his sexuality from about age 5 or 6. It's not that we're bad people per se it's just that we're often totally incapable of being honest about our homosexuality. 

2. We have a 30 year marriage, a lot of respect (I can see you rolling your eyes, but yes - in all the other channels of our relationship we do well, are well-matched)...

I've read this a lot over the years and it goes something like this: "I love my husband and he's my best friend." Then she provides a grocery list of lying, sexual neglect, emotional abuse, and (often) cheating. 

3. ...and he knows I’ll protect him, because I’ve been keeping his secrets for five years now.) But he still is wedded to preposterous stories (it was an accident he got out of the taxi on 52nd St between 9th and 10th at 1:15am, no idea gay bars around…).

If you listen to my recent podcast interviews with "Our Path", I do my best to debunk the bullsh*t excuses like: 

- Well I just found myself down at the gay sauna. (Truth: after doing 2 hours of internet research then walking by the sauna 15 times before entering.)
- Two men attacked me down at the gay cruising park. (Truth: I hung around the park for 2 hours, trolling for sex.)
- It (sex with another man) just happened. (Truth: I created a Grindr profile, took 15 naked photos, messaged at least 30+ guys, and after 10 days set up a sex date.)

My opinion: your husband can't stop lying to you because he's lied to himself, you, and to others his entire life. Truth and authenticity are two languages he simply doesn't understand and will never understand while still married to you. 

4. And that makes it very hard to manage all this to a healthy place. He just won’t budge,  What do you think?

I think you're currently in a mixed orientation marriage (or "MOM") and, rather than moving to a point of better communication and greater honesty, your husband is redoubling his efforts to hide his gay sexual exploits from you. And why? He probably fears that if you found out to what extent he's leading a parallel gay life, you'll likely leave him. If you read Dr. Alan Downs book "The Velvet Rage" I believe the author refers to this stage of the coming out process as "splitting" meaning your husband is one man at the dinner table and then a completely different person when cruising gay bars downtown at 1:00 a.m. 

I'm very sorry you and your family are going through this. I seem to recall your son was really suffering. How is he? Thinking of you and your family my friend. Be well. 

Last edited by Sean01 (June 30, 2022 11:45 pm)

 

July 2, 2022 6:14 am  #1995


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Sean, thank you for remembering about Charlie. I think he’s in a little bit of a better place, and a lot of what looked like psychosis was likely just too much pot. He still has a ways to go, but I think we found the right therapist - at least Charlie talks to him, maybe willing to trust a tiny bit. I think about your “get the kids out of the burning house” a lot, and I agree that it will help - but it needs to be stategic in this case, have to stabilize the exit route before we can go.
  You are also right about the splitting. I saw my husband once from behind, sitting with some of my friends, next to an attractive, out, gay man. My husband’s entire affect was different. More confident, actually. 
    My daughter seems to be coping with all of this more adaptively - her passion? Acting. 
  I also think about your “shouting at the deaf” comment. Yup. Every morning for years! Trying to treat him “fairly” to get him to “admit” there is a healthier path and help me get everyone on it. Ain’t happening, Have to do it myself. So infuriating but oh well. The word that keeps going through my head is that he’s “corrupt” — not meaning that same sex attraction is wrong in any way — but like a corrupted computer file or disk, he just isn’t going to work right. The lack of integrity will continue until he’s forced to face himself; I guess without me as a buttress. 
   The good news is that I do find that I like myself, and maybe have even greater self awareness from having to cope. The bad news is that it is still going to be hard for a while. I still have to play a part in a tale told by an (idiot?) other. For about two months. Looking at September 1st if my son is in an ok place for a transition - and I’m pretty confident that he will be, and that it will help, not hurt. Fingers crossed.  For the umpteenth time, thank you for being here. It’s a help and this stuff is hard!
   Rose

Last edited by RoseColoredGlasses (July 2, 2022 6:16 am)

 

July 2, 2022 12:45 pm  #1996


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for writing Rose. In reply: 

1. Sean, thank you for remembering about Charlie. I think he’s in a little bit of a better place, and a lot of what looked like psychosis was likely just too much pot. He still has a ways to go, but I think we found the right therapist - at least Charlie talks to him, maybe willing to trust a tiny bit.

I'm glad he's doing better. 

2. I think about your “get the kids out of the burning house” a lot, and I agree that it will help - but it needs to be strategic in this case, have to stabilize the exit route before we can go.

Understood. But I wouldn't wait years to make a change. Living in dad's closet is a very deep, dark place for innocent kids. 

3. You are also right about the splitting. I saw my husband once from behind, sitting with some of my friends, next to an attractive, out, gay man. My husband’s entire affect was different. More confident, actually. 
   
Perhaps because he was truly himself in that moment. 

4. My daughter seems to be coping with all of this more adaptively - her passion? Acting. 

Tech-savvy kids almost always know dad's gay. Have you discussed all of this with them?  

5. I also think about your “shouting at the deaf” comment. Yup. Every morning for years! Trying to treat him “fairly” to get him to “admit” there is a healthier path and help me get everyone on it. Ain’t happening, Have to do it myself. So infuriating but oh well. 

The majority of mixed orientation marriages (or MOMs) fail. I've been posting here for years and there always comes a point when the straight spouse needs to get off his pink merry-go-round to save her own sanity. 

6. The word that keeps going through my head is that he’s “corrupt” — not meaning that same sex attraction is wrong in any way — but like a corrupted computer file or disk, he just isn’t going to work right. The lack of integrity will continue until he’s forced to face himself; I guess without me as a buttress. 
   
I re-learned honesty and only started to rebuild my integrity after separation/divorce. I'm not sure if I'd call closeted husbands "corrupt" as this has a negative ring to it. I've often described it more along the lines of learning a new language...or perhaps a new emotional language. Emotionally, I reckon you're speaking completely different languages, as if you were speaking English to him and he's responding in French. Yes the two languages are close to each other and share a similar alphabet, however, they are still completely different. You will eventually come to the conclusion that your husband will never speak the same emotional language as you. It's not that he's a bad person or didn't try hard enough. It's just that he can't. He needs to communicate with other gay men who understand him...without you.       

7. The good news is that I do find that I like myself, and maybe have even greater self awareness from having to cope. The bad news is that it is still going to be hard for a while. I still have to play a part in a tale told by an (idiot?) other.

It's hard, I know.

8. For about two months. Looking at September 1st if my son is in an ok place for a transition - and I’m pretty confident that he will be, and that it will help, not hurt. Fingers crossed. 

Interesting. What's going to happen in September? Please keep us posted. 

9. For the umpteenth time, thank you for being here. It’s a help and this stuff is hard!

Thank you for sharing Rose. Please keep coming back. 

 

July 6, 2022 6:05 am  #1997


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Sean, usually when I read your posts I think “he’s being too hard on the husbands” but when we had the exchange above about the “two languages” - backing off of the idea that the inauthenticity and dishonestly that comes with the denial is somehow “corrupt” - I got a little stuck and wondered if you were in this case letting him off the hook too easily. I think where I am landing is that there is no simple characterization that is going to be possible. Yes, he’s a good guy. Yes, he acted very badly, caused a lot of pain. No, it’s not ok just because it is same-sex, wasn’t cheating with a woman (he seems to really believe this at some level? It’s where he’s trying to land right now,)  Poor him - but actually yes, poor him. 
     I had a very dear friend die of an AIDS related leukemia in the late 90s. Somehow that helps me keep all this stuff, my pain, in perspective. It is not as easy as it should be to be gay in this world, still. (I know, I’m describing an experience that isn’t my own.) But, I think my husband (successful, community leader type) could make a difference - he can totally “afford” to give up his “heterosexual privilege” and help make the world a better place. Be an example. But he doesn’t seem to have that courage, at least today.  Anyway, what I’m driving at is that I’m going to have to accept the loose ends - Bad guy/Good guy?  Yes.
   I’m going to move out on 9/1. Found a rental. In ten years we both will be a lot healthier if we split and face the world, and ourselves, on our own for a while. It’s going to be a difficult split after a 30 year marriage. But I am sure that it is the path to health, to light.
    I am a little afraid he’s going to be mean to me. After I’ve protected his reputation, kept his secrets, tried hard to understand (we worked with Joe Kort and two other therapists! Love Joe. But if my husband isn’t telling the truth, it’a a waste of time).  I told him I’ll see it as a double betrayal if he is mean, makes the split hard. Ugh. Still, I do see the light.
    I made another donation here to Our Path, grateful for you and for the forum. A huge help in a hard time.
    Rose

 

July 6, 2022 7:59 am  #1998


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

I am happy that the members of this Forum have helped you. Please come back anytime you want to talk. After my discovery, I felt shock, anger, and sadness. It is so difficult accepting the truth.

 

July 6, 2022 10:19 am  #1999


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for writing. In reply: 

1. Sean, usually when I read your posts I think “he’s being too hard on the husbands” but when we had the exchange above about the “two languages” - backing off of the idea that the inauthenticity and dishonestly that comes with the denial is somehow “corrupt” - I got a little stuck and wondered if you were in this case letting him off the hook too easily.

It's certainly possible...or perhaps your own perspective is now changing? What I was perhaps maladroitly trying to express was this: when it comes to a closeted husband's sexuality, no matter what his age, he reverts back to being 'child caught with hand in cookie jar' when confronted about his sexuality. So what does this mean? Like a child with cookie crumbs on his face, the closeted husband will continue bald-face lying to his wife about cheating and gay porn. It's not that he's a bad person, per se, it's simply that he's totally incapable of being honest about his homosexuality. 

2. I think where I am landing is that there is no simple characterization that is going to be possible. Yes, he’s a good guy. Yes, he acted very badly, caused a lot of pain. No, it’s not ok just because it is same-sex, wasn’t cheating with a woman (he seems to really believe this at some level? It’s where he’s trying to land right now.)  Poor him - but actually yes, poor him. 
    
If he's using a lot of "it's just sex [with another man]" and/or "I'm not cheating because I don't want a relationship with a man", these are classic excuses closeted husbands use to explain away why he's f*cking men...something I discussed in a recent "Our Path" interview. In the closeted husband's mind, he's desperately clinging to his heterosexual existence by downplaying the fact that he's having sex with men. 

3. I had a very dear friend die of an AIDS related leukemia in the late 90s. Somehow that helps me keep all this stuff, my pain, in perspective.

Your pain and suffering matter. 

4. It is not as easy as it should be to be gay in this world, still...

And even harder being married to a closeted husband I reckon. 

5. (I know, I’m describing an experience that isn’t my own.) But, I think my husband (successful, community leader type) could make a difference - he can totally “afford” to give up his “heterosexual privilege” and help make the world a better place. Be an example. But he doesn’t seem to have that courage, at least today.  Anyway, what I’m driving at is that I’m going to have to accept the loose ends - Bad guy/Good guy?  Yes.
 
And you're making a difference by honestly sharing here. 

6. I’m going to move out on 9/1. Found a rental.

Sad, but also necessary in my opinion. 

7. In ten years we both will be a lot healthier if we split and face the world, and ourselves, on our own for a while. It’s going to be a difficult split after a 30 year marriage. But I am sure that it is the path to health, to light.
   
Well said. 

8. I am a little afraid he’s going to be mean to me. After I’ve protected his reputation, kept his secrets, tried hard to understand (we worked with Joe Kort and two other therapists! Love Joe. But if my husband isn’t telling the truth, it’a a waste of time).  I told him I’ll see it as a double betrayal if he is mean, makes the split hard. Ugh. Still, I do see the light.
   
Whether he is kind or cruel during your separation is totally up to him. Sadly it's more offen the latter (cruel) so I would be prepared to limit contact or only allow contact through a third party. 

9. I made another donation here to Our Path, grateful for you and for the forum. A huge help in a hard time. 

That's very generous Rose. Thank you. Good luck and please continue to share your story, either here or on your own thread. Be well! 

 

July 18, 2022 6:13 am  #2000


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Sean,
Why do you think this sudden weight loss happens? I agree just wondered what your opinion was? My boyfriend used to weight 30 pounds more about 6 months before meeting and started working out and got really skinny

 

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