Hi Sean, I'm from Argentina so I'll use a translator and I hope you can understand my message well. I was in a relationship for 5 years with the perfect man, everyone said that we were made for each other. he and his family did not support the lgbt community. I taught him that love is love no matter what. We planned a life together and a few months ago we took the step of living together. he began to change, he looked at me ugly and he was always in a bad mood, so much so that two months ago we decided to take some time to think. We met again two weeks ago and he told me that he was no longer in love but that he loved me as a friend, I couldn't understand until he finally confirmed that he has been attracted to men since he was 12 years old. I collapse, I end my future and my life, I don't want to live anymore. It was so perfect that I don't understand. I have the illusion that he is a passenger, we continue to see each other and we had sex but last night he told me that he no longer wants to lie to himself. that today his way is that but he is in the closet and he says that he needs me by his side as a friend but I can't Sean, I can't. and more when he tells me that he still likes women. I don't know what to think, I want to wait for him but I don't believe in bisexuality, I feel that he is totally gay. He is the most incredible person I have met in my life, he helped me to be a better person. I love him but I hate him at the same time, how could he deceive me, betray me like that??? I have to accept being his friend after what he did to me???

In response to LMM's excellent update which you can read here: OurPath (formerly SSN) Open Forum » Evangelical, Ultra-Religious Scenario is VERY Different Than Others (boardhost.com). 

I wanted to reply to this: 

"Now, as we tear away the lies from religious control and Evangelical systems, he's very open and kind. He doesn't need to fight the demons or spend hours repenting anymore. He's getting therapy and meds for the depression, which is like a whole life makeover. He connects to us and carries our feelings with us. No more being detached or passive. He continues to realize what he was doing and how it looked/felt to me, on my side of the equation. Instead of avoiding hard talks, he's given me 4 months of healing, affirming explanations. People in this group have been stern with me to not believe "crocodile tears" or these healing, helpful things because they're a manipulative abuse game. But it's not. I kept waiting for that to come, but it feels more and more safe. People here don't get the way that my whole body was in full-alarm before and now for months has been completely safe! The thing that changed was the truth coming out and our decision to divorce. All the hellfire and the reasons behind abusing me are gone." 

I'm so happy you and your kids are healing. I was firmly in the "beware of his crocodile tears" camp and wanted to apologize if I went too far. But I still want to warn you, many closeted and formerly closeted husbands are performers. And many straight spouses are healers/co-dependents. That means he is very good at acting in ways that meet his insatiable need for unconditional love, validation, and attention. Sadly, many straight wives and future-ex-wives continue to sacrifice most of their time and effort into healing him, often at the expense of her own healing and that of her children. You wrote: 

"I'm healing and moving on, feeling more settled and able to relax now that it's been 5 weeks since he moved out."

This is excellent news and I assume things will continue to improve as you detach, with love of course. But I will again caution you, don't put his needs and his healing ahead of your own needs/healing nor that of your kids. You and your kids come first. He can now lean on himself, his recovery community, and his family to heal. He is no longer your responsibility. Put bluntly, he can now pick up his own medication, make his own appointments, cook his own meals, do his own laundry etc.

You also wrote: 

"...he's given me 4 months of healing, affirming explanations..."

This is a good start but again I'd like to caution you. Four months out of a seventeen-year abusive relationship represents just 0.25% of your relationship. So for 99.75% of your time together, he was both closeted and abusive. So what's my point? As I said during our podcast/interview, it will take years for your ex-husband to heal and he might even fall back into his formerly abusive ways during this time of healing. As such, I would urge you to continue setting boundaries, detaching with love, and focusing on your healing and your childrens' healing. 

Thanks again for posting an update and please feel free to respond to my comments. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (May 7, 2022 9:47 am)

Sean (and others that may be interesteed)

I did create a post about Mormonism and closeted husbands here:

https://straightspouse.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=34190#p34190

I'm hoping to hear from other LDS or exLDS!

Thank you lily, beastie, and LMM for sharing. In response to LMM's post: 

1. Sean, I appreciate your reply. I agree with all the cautions and reasons behind them - my own therapy and my adult children of alcoholics support group are the reasons I'm able to detach from my ex and really take care of myself now! I've got really caring women helping me through the day to day stuff. I've got a sponsor who tells me bluntly and lovingly if I'm playing the old games! It's been so freeing to have good boundaries.

Well done. 

2. Lately I sing along to the radio with my kids in the car all the time, and I never once did that their whole lives. The other day I said, "Hey, let's make popcorn and watch a family movie!' even when they'd used their screen time - the old, rigid, religious me never did that because it would show my kids that rules can change.

Beautiful. I'm so happy for you and your kids. 

3. Mostly, we can have fun because my ex isn't here being depressed and upset, and when he comes for dinner on the weekend he's so relaxed and grounded. 

Cautiously optimistic. 

4. I think the point I was making was that this is a totally different scenario than the double life, cheating, trying to have both sides type of partner. Yes, there was major deception because he believed his conversion therapists and pastors that marrying a nice girl and not telling her the truth was his ticket to being saved. So much abuse toward me grew out of that awful lie.

Agreed, however, there are evangelical husbands who do disclose their "same sex attraction." 

5. But I still believe he didn't cheat or hide online accounts and all that.

I respectfully disagree. I don't think your future ex-husband was this tormented simply from furtively glancing at hot dads down at the beach. While I could be totally wrong, I reckon his toxic self-hatred was born of watching gay porn and/or actually hooking up with men. But again I'm just some idiot posting online and arguably you know him much better than I do. 

6. He was a mess if he saw a good looking guy because it showed he wasn't fixed yet. It sent him to repenting and depression.

Tragic. 

7. He still doesn't think he'd ever have any relationships in the future, though I hope he heals enough for that.

How sad. Hopefully he will eventually deprogram to a point that he will be able to have meaningful relationships with other men. But I reckon he's still years away from those scenarios. 

8. When you believe God is monitoring your thoughts and finding terrible sins in the most normal ones, then you'll never step out of line in behavior. Because your abnormal, bad thoughts are going to be punished unless you get right with God by prayer and serving Him! Unfortunately, that same system fails to have consequences for mean, unkind, even abusive behavior.

I'd argue that his faith doesn't excuse everything, particularly how abusive he was with you and how he chose to neglect his kids. You were also brainwashed by the same thinking, however, you weren't abusive with your husband nor kids. 

9. You're not seen as dirty before God if you mistreat your wife and kids, if you're reading your Bible and praying and doing all the church stuff enough. That's why I was told to stop complaining and be more grateful for my husband when I told church women what it was like at home. They said I must be having rebellious thoughts, and Satan was making my ex act badly to me because I was secretly rebellious toward my husband. 

What a terrible, cult-like religion. I'm so glad you got out. 

10. The motivations in this whole scenario have to be opposite the motivations behind the abuse and lies in the cheating, double life scenario. In the Evangelical one, someone is desperately trying to cut themselves apart and remove the evil, be it drinking, porn, SSA, whatever. They're creating tons of damage to their family by cutting themselves up, not by trying to have it all or lashing out in anger toward their family. They're trying hard to be good and holy, but never getting there.

Based on our previous discussions, I'd argue that your future ex-husband knew when to act in a kind and caring way when he was performing for others. If this is accurate, clearly he understood on some level the difference between acceptable and unacceptable behavior. If for example he was able to maintain a job, this means he could act appropriately with others. I'm trying to express that on some level he chose to act poorly with you and the kids. If it was "beyond his control" as you suggest, then he would have been lashing out at everyone, not just his family.  

11. I think the recovery looks different because there's a huge relief now, in this feeling of "Wait, I'm not evil and God isn't going to strike me?" No need to lash out at the family now, but it's a time to stop and get some peace to rewire your beliefs and lifestyle. 

I agree, however, I'm glad you have a counsellor and recovery sponsor who will help you maintain boundaries as you move towards divorce; a divorce that I believe he is firmly against. Thank you again for sharing your journey LMM. For every straight spouse who posts here, I reckon there are hundreds following your journeys. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (May 7, 2022 4:38 pm)

Thank you for writing Crystal. I'm afraid that I didn't quite understand your post so I'm taking the liberty of responding to your original post to provide some context. Here we go: 

1. Is it possible that trauma can make someone suppress and not accept that they are gay? I do not understand trauma but I do know that sexual trauma is very complex. My GXH [gay ex-husband] experienced childhood sexual trauma from another male.

Believe it or not, many closeted or formerly closeted husbands claim "sexual abuse made me gay." This is something I discuss during two podcasts with Our Path: 

S4 Ep 3: A “Narcissist in Recovery” Gets Real - OurPath skip to 1H:03MINS:00
S5 Ep 5: A Former Closeted Narcissist in Recovery Answers Your Questions - OurPath 00:45MINS:00

As I shared in the above interviews, I tell straight wives (or ex-wives) that they don't have to automatically believe pathologically dishonest husbands who claim "sexual abuse made me gay." If your husband lied for most of your marriage, there is a very real possibility that he's lying about this to gain sympathy and somehow explain away gay porn and cheating. I only know a handful of out gay men who were sexually abused as children and they all say the same thing. "I was a gay boy who was abused. The abuse didn't make me gay." So while any form of sexual abuse or trauma is barbaric and (thankfully) illegal, I urge straight spouses to gage what he's saying based on how honest he was over the course of your relationship. When interacting with straight spouses, I often sidestep the issue of childhood abuse to focus on the question of her husband's honesty. I urge them to grade their husbands on an honesty scale of 0-10 with ten (10) being totally honest and zero (0) meaning he was a pathological liar. If your husband scores roughly 2/10 on the honesty scale, then you're justified in believing 20% of what he says about his sexuality. Thus 80% of what he's saying about cheating, porn, and abuse is likely fabricated or at the very least exaggerated.      

2. All his life he has learned to suppressed this trauma.

If the trauma actually happened...

3. Him being attracted to the same sex brought on a fear for him that he was not maybe understanding and ready to face. Now at over 40 he started therapy and he is now able to unpack and discover these feelings.

I'm glad he's getting professional help, however, I don't think it's appropriate for him to share all of this with you following your divorce. You two are no longer a couple and he is no longer your responsibility. 

4. He went through the motions of marriage because this is what he “thought” he was supposed to do. I see now that he is having a hard time when I tell him that I feel lied and betrayed. He says it was not a lie or deceit because during our marriage he was doing what he  “thought” he was supposed to do which was marry a woman.  What are your thoughts on this?

If I'm reading this correctly: he's making himself out to be victim while completely ignoring your pain. So my thoughts are he's a selfish, toxic *sshole. 

5. I feel  and know that he could very well have suppressed the trauma and this makes sense. Could the trauma however still be subconsciously there through his actions?

If your husband lied about his sexuality your entire marriage there is the very real possibility that he's lying about trauma. So no, you don't have to blindly believe everything he says, particularly when it comes to explaining away his homosexuality. 

6. Sean help me answer this please. My GXH has recently come out to me. I’m still in the processing stage of it being that it just happened a week ago.

I'm so sorry you're going through this although some day you may come to appreciate that he said "I'm gay." Many closeted ex-husbands never come out. 

7. I told him how this new made me feel. In our marriage I felt like I was a Hostage......Lies .......Selfish....Deceit. He seems to be very triggered that these are the feelings I have towards him in our marriage now that he has shared he is gay.

I have two reactions to this: first, I hope that you are in therapy. And second, an inability to acknowledge other's emotional pain suggests he may suffer from a personality disorder. I would encourage you to discuss all of this with a mental health professional who can hopefully help you detach with love from your troubled ex-husband. 

8. Is this a common behavior for someone to have towards the straight spouse when newly coming out?

Yes. The newly out man is often referred to as a "baby gay" because he goes through a period of child-like self-centredness. This is also called "gay adolescence." If your ex-husband only talks about himself, constantly portrays himself as a victim, and totally ignores your feelings, I see little reason to remain in contact with him.    

9. I feel like I’m fully entitled to feel what I feel and so is he, but asking if this is a common thing to experience when newly coming out? 

Your feelings and, by extension, your healing matter. If your ex-husband is incapable of acknowledging your emotional pain then I reckon it's time to detach (with love) from this toxic man. While I don't have a lot of information, I don't think your ex-husband is in any way capable of helping you heal from your broken marriage. So perhaps it's time to stop letting this emotionally blind man drive the bus. Time to kick his *ss to curb, take the wheel, and fill your bus with caring people who love and affirm you unconditionally. 

I hope that helps my friend but please feel free to post again. Be well!