Hi LIT,

I am squeamish about mental health professionals, too. Some are not a right fit for you and some are not right for anyone.  No meds are a good boundary.

That constant nitpicking is abusive!  I'd suggest a soft pushback by slowly curtailing the concierge service. 

My parents and all siblings were born in a Central/Eastern European country which has never gotten its act together. (Am the only US born kid). It's a conservative culture where women are blamed for being sexually assaulted/ hit. I know what you mean. I told my conservative Catholic father the truth about GIDXH. He said divorce the bum. I was expecting the opposite reaction.  You know you own situation better. I wanted to throw my father's reaction for your consideration.

Again, take care of yourself and your son. A watchful eye and careful planning, even if reaching your goal  takes longer than you want, will serve you & ds well! 😊

Last edited by MJM017 (January 8, 2022 10:12 pm)

I just wanted to say, I found my exit plan. It was so much easier than I dreaded. I have my support ready and waiting on the other side of the planet. Thank you for opening my eyes and pursueing me to run not walk. It was an agonizing few months suffering alone but was well worth coming here. Son finding Grindr was the best thing that happened in 2020 at the end of the day.
I hope my husband can one day see the pain and hurt he caused me and our son. Unfortunately he appears to love himself too much to ever doubt his actions. He said he has no regrets nor shame for anything he has done for his entire life. Hope he can come to the light and be a better person like you.
Keep up the good work Sean, I admire you for putting so much time and care to help women like me.

Sean wrote:

Thank you for posting everyone. In reply: 

1. MJM wrote: A watchful eye and careful planning, even if reaching your goal  takes longer than you want, will serve you & ds well!

Well said! 

2. LIT wrote: I am seeing the patterns of my husbands manipulation. ​Easier to detect since reading the posts here.

Well done! This is a HUGE step forward so you should be proud of yourself.  

3. Easier to detect since reading the posts here. You are absolutely right. He does get nitpicky on everything to make me feel bad and start a fight just to prove he is always right. I am tired and fed up of bowing down to him. Oven temperature wrong, ice tray not full, laundry temperature too high, storage is wrong, how I shut the door, how I water the plants, even to the pencils I buy for my son, my face creams, my outfits, my own haircut.. I see it now.

I did the same thing with a simple goal: to keep my (then) wife so distracted that she couldn't focus on my homosexuality, porn use, and cheating. For me personally, I don't think I was evil. I was just very practiced at distracting from my closeted sexuality because I'd been doing it since I was 5 years old. 

4. Who the fuck cares if I put the mustard in the fridge or wear white socks? I have kept our home perfectly for 2decades, cooked every meal from scratch, looked nice everyday wanting to be noticed without success.

What an *sshole. I'm sorry he put you through this. 

5. I am done apologizing and blaming myself for nothing.

Powerful! If you believe yourself to be a people-pleaser/co-dependent, there are two things that really helped me  rebuild my own self esteem: reading a book entitled "Co-Dependent No More" by Melody Beattie. The audio book version is also excellent and easy to listen to with earbuds while doing everyday chores. I also joined coda.org for a time, which is a free 12-step association for co-dependents. Joining a free, anonymous, and practical group with a kind/caring sponsor was a life saver.    

6. I am grateful for the kind and harsh replies on my post. It has been a real eye opener.

I apologize if I pushed to hard or if any of my replies were too blunt. But beware: closeted/gay-in-denial husbands are incredibly sensitive to other's feelings. He will likely feel a shift and, as your confidence grows, he will likely increase the emotional abuse. So I would be prepared for him to claim "I was abused as a child" to explain away why he's having sex with men. He might also start making noises that he's suicidal. Whether or not any of this is true, these are often the final attempts by a closeted husband to re-assert control over his wife and the relationship. So I'd be prepared for his next "big move." I'd also recommend you discreetly start building a dossier of evidence that he is gay and/or cheating. From what you have described in previous posts, this might prove useful later on if/when you decide to separate/divorce. Just a suggestion and hope that doesn't scare you. 

As always, feel free to post/reply as often as you like. Be well! 

Hi Sean,

I am just joining this thread. I listened to a podcast on "Our Voices" recently and your story seems similar to the man that spoke. 
A few things: My former husband came out to me through a letter. He stated he felt an attraction towards men since he was a little boy. He first blamed his Dad but retracted that. His "Dad" was not his birth father or active in his life. He was exceptionally close to his mother and grandmother, as I always felt I was number 3 in his world. 

My former husband traveled for his job every week. He told me he used the Grinder app to meet men at his hotel and had sexual relations with those men. He told me he had an "addiction" towards men, he wasn't gay; he was bi. However, he didn't show affection towards me, never wanting to have sex with me.

Our divorce has been finalized (2 months ago) as I am almost a year out from when he told me. Throughout the whole divorce process, he became this monster that had no respect for me. If I remember correctly from your podcast, you did this to your former wife. Why? I was his number one cheerleader for years and truly loved him with my every being. He took vacations and spent a lot of "his money." He completely acted out into this human I didn't even know. 

Someone very close to me recently wrote a letter to both of his grandparents telling them the "real" truth. Up until this point, his mother was the only one that knew he was gay and acted upon those feelings. He called and texted me about the letters as I will not respond. Others around me use the narcissist term, and it makes me cringe thinking my former spouse is of sort. 

Did you come out to everyone? Did people figure it out? I feel I am in a rock and a hard place to tell the real story to my friends. What kind of former spouse do it make me to tell his biggest life secret? 

I appreciate all of your thoughts/suggestions! 

Hi Sean. Its been a while since I last posted here. Nothing has changed except maybe my husband doesn't view transexual porn. If he does, its been very well hidden. Theres still no sex. No interest in being intimate whatsoever. I even travel for work and even in my absence he does not want me in that way. We are truly roommates. He says that his medication keeps him from getting an erection but I know that is a lie. He cannot maintain an erection and forget orgasm....at least where I am concerned. He can do both on his own masturbatng. Even if he was concerned about my sexual feelings he could at least bring me to some relief. But no...that's not happening. Theres always an argument over it even if its been months since I brought up the question. You would have thought I had asked him to do something illegal or immoral. I am going away again on the 22nd of this month and I'm thinking of not coming back. I don't even want to tell him where I'm staying. Theres no easy way to do this. What do I do? Or how best to handle it? Our child is grown now so theres no excuse for me to stay and not that this was problematic anyway.

Thank you for writing friends. In reply: 

1. OSD wrote: Hi Sean. Its been a while since I last posted here. Nothing has changed except maybe my husband doesn't view transexual porn. If he does, its been very well hidden.

Thank you for writing although I'm so very sorry things haven't improved with your husband. Would it be possible to give me your former forum name/nickname so that I may review our previous exchanges? 

2. There's still no sex. No interest in being intimate whatsoever.

This must have been incredibly painful. You deserve(d) so much better my friend. This is the biggest red flag in gay/straight relationships. In my experience, the sexual disconnect is what drives most straight wives to ask questions, to agitate, and to investigate. As a closeted gay man, I did everything I could to avoid sex with my (then) wife because it felt like being forced to have sex with my sister. Most straight wives I've exchanged with over the years feel this sexual disconnect from the beginning of their relationships. The most common situation I've read about is no sex on the wedding night or little to no sex on the honeymoon. Then over the years he creates bullsh*t excuses to avoid sex/intimacy. It's cruel and he often shifts the blame on to his wife which I believe is emotional abuse. This is something Kristin K and I discussed during a recent podcast S4 Ep 3: A “Narcissist in Recovery” Gets Real - OurPath at around the 00:11:00 minute mark. 

3. I even travel for work and even in my absence he does not want me in that way. We are truly roommates. He says that his medication keeps him from getting an erection but I know that is a lie.

I agree. 

4. He cannot maintain an erection [with his wife] and forget orgasm....at least where I am concerned. He can do both on his own masturbating.

This is a common disconnect. He's not interested in sex with his wife and yet he's buying Viagra, lube, and condoms. He claims to have erectile dysfunction and yet has a prescription for Cialis. He's tired, sex is painful, or (worse) sex reminds him of some (likely vague/false) sexual trauma. And yet he's hooking up with men all the time. The bottom line is he refuses to have sex with his wife. 

5. Even if he was concerned about my sexual feelings he could at least bring me to some relief. But no...that's not happening. There's always an argument over it even if its been months since I brought up the question. You would have thought I had asked him to do something illegal or immoral.

I'm sorry he's acting this way. Again, his actions suggest he's questioning/gay-in-denial. 

6. I am going away again on the 22nd of this month and I'm thinking of not coming back. I don't even want to tell him where I'm staying. There's no easy way to do this.

Well I'd encourage you to have some plan in place as far as living accommodations, your shared finances, and perhaps a plan for separation/divorce. If you haven't already done so, please consult with a divorce attorney before escaping. 

7. What do I do? Or how best to handle it? Our child is grown now so there's no excuse for me to stay and not that this was problematic anyway.

If you're empty nesters, then it will be somewhat easier to separate/divorce. Again I'd encourage you to consult with a qualified divorce attorney before leaving. It might be worthwhile to come up with a plan before leaving on January 22nd. Good luck and please keep coming back to share your journey. For every straight spouse posting here, I believe there are hundreds following along. 

8. Parker Ann wrote: Hi Sean. Thank you so much for your quick response! I appreciate that. I will definitely look into reading about the gay adolescence and grey rock.

If you want to understand the coming out process, I recommend "The Velvet Rage" by Dr. Alan Downs. With regards to narcissism, I found "Co-Dependent No More" by Melody Beattie an excellent resource for anyone who dated/married narcissists. I listened and re-listened to both audio books. Coda.org was also a huge help. CODA is a 12-step community for co-dependents and my time there helped me rebuild my own broken self-esteem. 

9. Do you feel being gay is genetic?

I do believe I was born gay, as do 99.9% of my gay friends. Whenever I'm asked this question by straight people, I always ask them two questions: "When did you choose to be straight?" and "Do you think you were born straight?" Being gay is as involuntary/genetic as being heterosexual.   

10. Are any of your kids gay?

None have come out as gay (yet) but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. If any of my kids came out as LGBTQ, I'd fully accept/embrace them. 

11. I also left out a piece of my story my brain has blocked out. My former spouse had sexual relations with his Best Man in our wedding (before our marriage).

Wow. So how did you find out? 

12. The Best Man is married to a female as they have 3 young daughters. Best Man's wife now knows the truth and decided to stay with him. Is this common?

I wouldn't say that it's common to f*ck your best man just before the wedding, no. However, it is quite common for couples to double down on marriages following infidelity, particularly when a straight wife has found out her husband is having sex with men. In my limited experience, this most often occurs in evangelical Christian circles where male-on-male sex is treated more as an addiction or perhaps a mental illness. Whether religious or not, I think the natural reaction to infidelity is to stay together, at least for a time. There is often a short-lived "honeymoon" phase after a questioning husband admits to a sexual attraction to men or that he's having sex with men. By "honeymoon" I mean a few weeks or months during which he plays "perfect straight husband" by attempting to have sex with his wife. After years of abuse/neglect, she of course appreciates the renewed intimacy. Sadly, it's all rather brief and they're back to zero intimacy, conflict, and him cheating in a few months.  

13. Do most gay men "try it out" with one of their best friends?

Well I don't know of many men who f*cked their best man before a wedding, but yes there is often a period of gay sexual exploration. Gay men are just like heterosexuals, meaning there is often childhood, pre-adolescent, or adolescent sexual play with friends. This was my experience as well. 

14. I am still in shock over this and feel my brain just can't grasp this.

I'm so sorry he put you through all of this. Without taking away from your pain, I want to share that "I had sex with my best (male) friend" is quite common. If your husband and his best friend remained in contact over the years, they likely continued having sex. Closeted gay men, and in particular very religious closeted gay husbands, often have long-term relationships with other husbands/fathers because they deem these relationships as "safe." In their minds, it's safer to be with another (evangelical) husband/father because there is little chance the other will come out and thereby blow up both of their lives. (Think about the movie "Brokeback Mountain.") It's a kind of mutually assured destruction clause. In my limited experience, the long-term gay lover and your husband are very close friends, are in constant contact (daily calls/texts), often do lots of family things together, and when together their wives witness a level of intimacy that goes far beyond friendship. One example a friend of mine shared was when he lovingly removed a dollop of sunscreen from his long-term boyfriend's face when on a "family" boating trip. (Both wives and families knew each other socially.) The other wife witnessed the gesture/intimacy and, later, completely broke down because she always suspected the husbands were much more than just friends.

I'm blathering on and will end it there. Thank you both for sharing and please come back if you want to post/share again. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (January 12, 2022 9:21 am)