OurPath Open Forum

This Open Forum is funded and administered by OurPath, Inc., (formerly the Straight Spouse Network). OurPath is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit that provides support to Straight Partners and Partners of Trans People who have discovered that their partner is LGBT+. Your contribution, no matter how small, helps us provide our community with this space for discussion and connection.


BE A DONOR >>>


You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



December 23, 2021 8:52 pm  #1811


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Sean,
I want to thank you for taking the extra step of reading my story and commenting on the condom issue. My husband really tried to gaslight me on this one. I also want to thank you for your response to my question about worldview. Your description of seeing the world in blinding technicolor and the story about Dan Savage's experience really helped me begin to understand. I appreciate you sharing your own perspective. For some reason, reading your post left me with a sense of peace--something I needed as this holiday season has been tough.
 

 

December 24, 2021 12:34 pm  #1812


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

seeing in technicolour - are you saying gay men see the world like they are on acid?  is this literal?  is it all the time or is it only occasional - like straights experience at times, due to heightened emotion.

My observation is that amongst straights gays tend to suppress their emotionality, I can imagine that going into a room full of gay people letting their feelings show for the first time would be an amazing experience.

I wonder if it's the same the other way round - do straights tend to suppress their feelings in a room full of gay people?  



 

 

December 25, 2021 3:46 am  #1813


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Merry Christmas! Thank you both for writing. In reply: 

1. QuietOne: I want to thank you for taking the extra step of reading my story and commenting on the condom issue. My husband really tried to gaslight me on this one.

I'm so sorry he did this to you. Sadly, this type of crazy-making is a common tool/tactic with closeted/questioning husbands. Here is a definition of gaslighting for those who don't know the term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting. 

2. I also want to thank you for your response to my question about worldview. Your description of seeing the world in blinding technicolor and the story about Dan Savage's experience really helped me begin to understand. I appreciate you sharing your own perspective. For some reason, reading your post left me with a sense of peace--something I needed as this holiday season has been tough.

I'm glad to have helped in some small way. I highly recommend "The Velvet Rage" if you want to truly understand gay men and the coming out process. 

3. Lily: seeing in technicolour - are you saying gay men see the world like they are on acid?  is this literal?  is it all the time or is it only occasional - like straights experience at times, due to heightened emotion.

I've never taken acid so I can't say really. For me personally, living as an out gay man who is also fully accepted by friends and family feels like being a wonderstruck young boy again. This new-found freedom is almost intoxicating...perhaps like a natural drug.  

4. My observation is that amongst straights gays tend to suppress their emotionality...

100% agree. 

5. I can imagine that going into a room full of gay people letting their feelings show for the first time would be an amazing experience.

You make an excellent point Lily. In my experience, most closeted/questioning husbands like me truly accept our homosexuality when we move beyond the sugar-high of meaningless gay hook-up culture and, for the first time, discover loving gay relationships. Once the closeted/questioning husband makes gay friends and sees loving gay couples, that's when he finally understands what it means to be gay. That was my experience. 

6. I wonder if it's the same the other way round - do straights tend to suppress their feelings in a room full of gay people?

The most uncomfortable I've seen a straight man is when his drunk wife/girlfriend drags him to a gay bar. 

Wishing you all the very best for the holidays. 

     Thread Starter
 

December 25, 2021 11:09 pm  #1814


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

okay so re seeing in technicolour, this sounds like it is the same straight or gay.  I imagine by the time you've had your favourite shorts pinched by the cute gay guy in the locker room and a few more choice things have happened your wonderstruck state becomes less technicolour.

one of my favourite memories is of being on Fraser Island, camping in the sand dunes we watched a fantastic sunset and then turned and sat under this tree and looked out over the Pacific Ocean watching the moonrise and, you know I'd never seen a whale before and there it was way out to sea, as big as a house but looking like a toy whale in the silver path of the moonshine doing that water spout thing.  I was entranced, it was like my imaginings as a little girl from seeing pictures in books. Definitely a technicolour moment.

that give me a giggle, the thought of a straight man in a gay bar!

I think that the parent's closet has a lot to do with the repression of gay emotion in their children.  chances are that one of the parents is repressing their gay feelings.  Very early on you would be learning not to show gay just like I was learning to repress my sexuality in front of my ex.  I'd feel his disapproval if my hips swayed and it stopped me.

yes, the difference between loving sex and loose cannon sex is huge isn't it. For me the idea of the sugar-high hook up sex is like no way, something I really don't want, I can't imagine separating my heart from my sexuality like that.  

 

December 30, 2021 12:34 pm  #1815


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thanks Lily. Wishing everyone a very happy new year. May 2022 bring all of us the freedom, love, happiness, and serenity we deserve. If any straight spouses have questions for a gay ex-husband, please feel free to post them here. Be well! 

 

January 8, 2022 6:02 am  #1816


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Hello sean, I posted on the is he or she gay forum and got some definitive feedback that my husband is gay. Which raises a few questions in my head.

If you were still in denial or wanted to stay closeted, if you had the opportunity to sleep in the same bed with a male friend while traveling, would you tell your wife? My husband shares rooms with friends (while traveling or business trips) when there are 'no extra rooms available' as an excuse. Which is odd but he does go to some pretty messed up extremely poor countries so it is possible.  But he tells me on his return. If he was on the down low, I would presume he would lie or hide it....
Also, did you drown your wife with lavish gifts whether from guilt, wanting to show affection or purely habitual? Even though you live like roommates and have little emotional connection and no physical connection?

 

January 8, 2022 9:00 am  #1817


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for posting Lostintranslation, although I'm very sorry that you've found yourself here. When reading my comments, please keep in mind that I'm not a mental health professional. Now in response to you post/questions: 

1. Hello sean, I posted on the is he or she gay forum and got some definitive feedback that my husband is gay. Which raises a few questions in my head.

I've taken the liberty of reading your first post and just wanted to highlight the following. 

2. Grindr: I looked up what Grindr was and to my shock it is what it is. Husband woke up later and behaved as if everything was fine. I was already in a state of shock but didn't want him to know we found out. Kept on with my day and put on a straight face. Kept an eye on his behavior for a few more weeks. He would hide his phone when I suddenly enter the room, change the app to something else. I took my time and started snooping while he was in the shower or cleaning. I found many messages, all slightly different in context. Wanting blowjobs, wanting to hook up, asking for threesomes with another man he chatted with, male prostitutes, that he is bi, that he is younger, asking for explicit details of other men having sex etc. But nothing indicating he ever met anyone, Since covid he works fully from home and never goes out without me so I believe he never actually had an encounter. This went on for another month. Husband seemed to notice I was nervous and agitated but had no clue what I discovered. One day, my son and I had to go out on our own for an hour or so. I immeditately checked his app when I had the chance. He messaged some of the men for a quickie in his car at 4pm which was when we were to be away. 

Before reviewing this passage, I urge you to get tested for STDs/STIs and to only practice safe sex with your husband. That means abstinence and/or only having sex with condoms. I'll explain why below. Mostly I want to thank you for having the courage to share your experience here. For every straight spouse who posts here, I reckon there are dozens or perhaps even hundreds of women following your journeys. I also want to write that I understand how much straight spouses want to stay married, want their husbands to be straight, and want to believe that no cheating has occurred. In my opinion, your husband is clearly not straight and has been cheating on you with men...likely for years. Sorry if that stings. You wrote "nothing indicating he ever met anyone..." which is a common minimization. (He probably said this to you or, worse, made you feel like it was your idea.) Take it from an expert, men like me use Grindr for the sole purpose of having sex with other men. It's a sex app for men who want sex with men. Period. If during a one-hour window, your husband quickly arranged a hook up in his car, that suggests a level of experience with the app that goes far beyond "curiosity." So he's definitely had sex with other men and likely continues to do so. If he hasn't been having sex with other men, fine. He can easily prove it by taking an STD/STI test, with you there to verify the results. If he panics when you suggest such a test, that confirms he's doing more than just chatting on Grindr. Now on to your post/questions. 

3. If you were still in denial or wanted to stay closeted, if you had the opportunity to sleep in the same bed with a male friend while traveling, would you tell your wife?

No. But your husband isn't really in denial, nor closeted anymore. He's moved on to a phase where he's trying to brainwash you into normalizing why he's sleeping with men. Get ready for the "I was abused as a child which is why I like d*ck" excuse. If you want to get off his crazy-go-round logic, just use a "woman" in this situation. "If you have the opportunity to sleep in the same bed with a female friend while traveling...." No wife would let her husband sleep with another woman on a business trip. Chump Lady calls this "mindf*ckery." He's sleeping with men on these trips because he wants to. Period. 

4. My husband shares rooms with friends (while traveling or business trips) when there are 'no extra rooms available' as an excuse.

Bullsh*t. Ok so let's recap the facts here. Your husband... 

- Refused to have sex with you for almost 13 years 
- Uses Grindr, a gay hook up/sex app
- Exchanges d*ck pics with other men via Grindr
- Shares hotel beds with men while away from home

One tool straight spouses can use to work through their shock/denail is to imagine if a female friend, sister, or aunt came to you with the same narrative. Let's call this man Jim and your friend's name is Susan. Susan comes to you and says, "Jim and I..." 

- Haven't had sex in almost 13 years 
- Jim uses Grindr, a gay hook up app
- Jim has exchanged d*ck pics with other men via Grindr
- Jim travels a lot for work and shares hotel beds with other men on these trips

Is Jim gay? Another tool to evaluate whether this acceptable, is to change this to a heterosexual narrative like this: 

- Refused to have sex with his wife for almost 13 years 
- Uses Tinder, a dating app, to meet women 
- Exchanges d*ck pics with women via Tinder
- Shares hotel beds with women while away from home

Is any of this normal/acceptable? Let me know your thoughts. 

5. Which is odd but he does go to some pretty messed up extremely poor countries so it is possible. 

He's lying to you and now you're lying to yourself. (Please see "gaslighting" below.) Even poor countries have hotels with single/twin beds and separate rooms. He's choosing to sleep with men in hotel rooms because he wants to, not because he has to. He's manipulating you and you're now parroting his bullsh*t excuses. 

6. But he tells me on his return. If he was on the down low, I would presume he would lie or hide it....

Splitting hairs. He's sleeping with men....that's the issue. This is called "gaslighting" which is distorting another person's truth/reality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting. In my world, when men sleep with men repeatedly, they're gay. Men who use Grindr are gay. Men who arrange hook ups in their cars are gay. Gay men don't enjoy sex with women so they avoid sex with women as he did with you for 13 years. So in your husband's distorted reality, every hotel on Earth forces men to share rooms and sleep in the same bed together? That's some straight up bullsh*t.  

7. Also, did you drown your wife with lavish gifts whether from guilt, wanting to show affection or purely habitual? Even though you live like roommates and have little emotional connection and no physical connection?

Yes. This is something I discussed during a recent podcast: S4 Ep 3: A “Narcissist in Recovery” Gets Real - OurPath. Skip to 00:54:09 if you want to listen to the part about gifts/gift giving as manipulations. 

00:00:22 Introductions
00:04:09 My coming out story
00:11:09 Straight wives and sexless marriages
00:17:30 Common red flags (or “pink flags”) with non-straight husbands
00:22:46 Narcissism in gay/straight relationships
00:27:20 Common patterns in gay/straight relationships
00:34:30 Why doesn’t he just say “I’m gay”?
00:36:50 Do questioning/gay-in-denial husbands care about their straight spouses?
00:44:33 Answering the question: “Is my husband gay?”
00:53:13 Closeted men don’t want love, they want approval/recognition
00:54:09 Closeted husbands giving gifts to wives
00:54:56 Tricks closeted men use to distract their wives
01:03:07 Closeted husbands claiming “sexual abuse made me gay”
01:15:55 Signs your questioning/gay-in-denial husband is cheating
01:20:54 Why couples counselling rarely works in gay/straight relationships
01:25:30 When straight wives cheat
01:31:50 Why didn’t my questioning/gay husband let me go?
01:33:40 Why is my straight ex-wife so angry?
01:39:40 Straight spouse: where’s my f*cking pride parade?
01:42:11 My current relationship with ex-wife 

Again I'm very sorry that your husband has put you through all of this. In my opinion, your husband is as gay as a rainbow and I'd recommend you listen to the above and continue exchanging with fellow straight spouses for support. I did many of the same things he did so the podcast may be relevant to your situation. I'd also suggest that you: 

- Focus on your mental health and the mental health of your son, perhaps by seeking out counselling. 
- Read up on narcissism and co-dependency because your husband sounds like a black-belt narcissist.
- Get tested for STDs/STIs and only practice safe sex. 
- If he hasn't already done so, your husband will likely try to initiate sex with you to prove that he's straight (it's called a "honeymoon phase" and normally lasts just a few months). If he does, use condoms. 
- Be prepared for your husband to bring up a sexual abuse history to explain away his attraction to men. 
- Read this website's "First Aid Kit" and reach out to the "Our Path" hotline for help. 

Thank you again for posting and please feel free to comment and/or challenge anything I've shared above. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (January 8, 2022 9:42 am)

 

January 8, 2022 12:53 pm  #1818


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you Sean. Really appreciate your comments. Am writing this in my room, discreetly in haste. Please excuse the typos and disorganized sentences. Also English is not my mother tongue.

I will get tested for STDs. My husband is a odd germ freak and gets blood tests every year, also checks for stds but his reasons are 'the amount of shit you can contract in public toilets and unclean glasses at restaurants and doorknobs'. I did find it weird he would test for stds when we had no sexual activity.
Him sharing a bed with a man raised my eyebrows but he also continued to sleep at his ex girlfriends place when he was in Paris too. Being economical was his excuse. Though she had an extra bedroom.. so my suspicion never had grounds when he was sleeping at female friends as well.
The gifts have not been persistant. He was giving me plenty before marriage. After the wedding, nothing, no sort of a push present and barely a gift for birthdays once in a while until last year. Last winter(my birthday is close to Christmas) he offered me a significant present. With multiple lockdowns and travel ristrictions I havent seen my family for over a year and was feeling pretty down, maybe he wanted to cheer me up this way. Now I can see it as a coveruo.And this year, after confrontation he got me another thing that goes beyond his means currently. It seemed he was trying to make up for his fuckup. But after reading your comment, it is to keep me around.
Lovebombing stage certainly happened in a subtle way. But he had raging anger for completly different reasons shortly after confrontation. He has become slightly distant again since I came back from my trip. He does cuddle me when there are homosexual scenes on tv (very often these days) as I cannot bare to look at the screen, turn my head and shed tears in silence. He continues to watch without any problem though.

Oh how I wish this was all a nightmare. We go to church sometimes and I ask him after mass if he enjoyed the mass,if he thinks god is watching him, if he feels he has sinned or has guilt, or wants forgiveness. His answer is god is everywhere and god loves him no matter what. Whatever fault and flaws he has, god will forgive. So he must have no shame or self loath nor any problem deceiving me for all these years.

Will try to listen to the podcast. I am so numb all over. Gaslighting is a term I discovered since online research on this topic. I am so deeply engaged into his game of deception. There seems to be no way out and actually wish I never found out. Stockholm syndrome maybe? Going to look into divorce in private. Don't want to be manipulated further. Hope you can share a few things your ex wife did that you think were admirable before or after separation so I can do the same for the sake of my son. Cannot lose a husband and traumatize my son at such an important age which could lead to further damage.





Sean wrote:

Thank you for posting Lostintranslation, although I'm very sorry that you've found yourself here. When reading my comments, please keep in mind that I'm not a mental health professional. Now in response to you post/questions: 

1. Hello sean, I posted on the is he or she gay forum and got some definitive feedback that my husband is gay. Which raises a few questions in my head.

I've taken the liberty of reading your first post and just wanted to highlight the following. 

2. Grindr: I looked up what Grindr was and to my shock it is what it is. Husband woke up later and behaved as if everything was fine. I was already in a state of shock but didn't want him to know we found out. Kept on with my day and put on a straight face. Kept an eye on his behavior for a few more weeks. He would hide his phone when I suddenly enter the room, change the app to something else. I took my time and started snooping while he was in the shower or cleaning. I found many messages, all slightly different in context. Wanting blowjobs, wanting to hook up, asking for threesomes with another man he chatted with, male prostitutes, that he is bi, that he is younger, asking for explicit details of other men having sex etc. But nothing indicating he ever met anyone, Since covid he works fully from home and never goes out without me so I believe he never actually had an encounter. This went on for another month. Husband seemed to notice I was nervous and agitated but had no clue what I discovered. One day, my son and I had to go out on our own for an hour or so. I immeditately checked his app when I had the chance. He messaged some of the men for a quickie in his car at 4pm which was when we were to be away. 

Before reviewing this passage, I urge you to get tested for STDs/STIs and to only practice safe sex with your husband. That means abstinence and/or only having sex with condoms. I'll explain why below. Mostly I want to thank you for having the courage to share your experience here. For every straight spouse who posts here, I reckon there are dozens or perhaps even hundreds of women following your journeys. I also want to write that I understand how much straight spouses want to stay married, want their husbands to be straight, and want to believe that no cheating has occurred. In my opinion, your husband is clearly not straight and has been cheating on you with men...likely for years. Sorry if that stings. You wrote "nothing indicating he ever met anyone..." which is a common minimization. (He probably said this to you or, worse, made you feel like it was your idea.) Take it from an expert, men like me use Grindr for the sole purpose of having sex with other men. It's a sex app for men who want sex with men. Period. If during a one-hour window, your husband quickly arranged a hook up in his car, that suggests a level of experience with the app that goes far beyond "curiosity." So he's definitely had sex with other men and likely continues to do so. If he hasn't been having sex with other men, fine. He can easily prove it by taking an STD/STI test, with you there to verify the results. If he panics when you suggest such a test, that confirms he's doing more than just chatting on Grindr. Now on to your post/questions. 

3. If you were still in denial or wanted to stay closeted, if you had the opportunity to sleep in the same bed with a male friend while traveling, would you tell your wife?

No. But your husband isn't really in denial, nor closeted anymore. He's moved on to a phase where he's trying to brainwash you into normalizing why he's sleeping with men. Get ready for the "I was abused as a child which is why I like d*ck" excuse. If you want to get off his crazy-go-round logic, just use a "woman" in this situation. "If you have the opportunity to sleep in the same bed with a female friend while traveling...." No wife would let her husband sleep with another woman on a business trip. Chump Lady calls this "mindf*ckery." He's sleeping with men on these trips because he wants to. Period. 

4. My husband shares rooms with friends (while traveling or business trips) when there are 'no extra rooms available' as an excuse.

Bullsh*t. Ok so let's recap the facts here. Your husband... 

- Refused to have sex with you for almost 13 years 
- Uses Grindr, a gay hook up/sex app
- Exchanges d*ck pics with other men via Grindr
- Shares hotel beds with men while away from home

One tool straight spouses can use to work through their shock/denail is to imagine if a female friend, sister, or aunt came to you with the same narrative. Let's call this man Jim and your friend's name is Susan. Susan comes to you and says, "Jim and I..." 

- Haven't had sex in almost 13 years 
- Jim uses Grindr, a gay hook up app
- Jim has exchanged d*ck pics with other men via Grindr
- Jim travels a lot for work and shares hotel beds with other men on these trips

Is Jim gay? Another tool to evaluate whether this acceptable, is to change this to a heterosexual narrative like this: 

- Refused to have sex with his wife for almost 13 years 
- Uses Tinder, a dating app, to meet women 
- Exchanges d*ck pics with women via Tinder
- Shares hotel beds with women while away from home

Is any of this normal/acceptable? Let me know your thoughts. 

5. Which is odd but he does go to some pretty messed up extremely poor countries so it is possible. 

He's lying to you and now you're lying to yourself. (Please see "gaslighting" below.) Even poor countries have hotels with single/twin beds and separate rooms. He's choosing to sleep with men in hotel rooms because he wants to, not because he has to. He's manipulating you and you're now parroting his bullsh*t excuses. 

6. But he tells me on his return. If he was on the down low, I would presume he would lie or hide it....

Splitting hairs. He's sleeping with men....that's the issue. This is called "gaslighting" which is distorting another person's truth/reality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting. In my world, when men sleep with men repeatedly, they're gay. Men who use Grindr are gay. Men who arrange hook ups in their cars are gay. Gay men don't enjoy sex with women so they avoid sex with women as he did with you for 13 years. So in your husband's distorted reality, every hotel on Earth forces men to share rooms and sleep in the same bed together? That's some straight up bullsh*t.  

7. Also, did you drown your wife with lavish gifts whether from guilt, wanting to show affection or purely habitual? Even though you live like roommates and have little emotional connection and no physical connection?

Yes. This is something I discussed during a recent podcast: S4 Ep 3: A “Narcissist in Recovery” Gets Real - OurPath. Skip to 00:54:09 if you want to listen to the part about gifts/gift giving as manipulations. 

00:00:22 Introductions
00:04:09 My coming out story
00:11:09 Straight wives and sexless marriages
00:17:30 Common red flags (or “pink flags”) with non-straight husbands
00:22:46 Narcissism in gay/straight relationships
00:27:20 Common patterns in gay/straight relationships
00:34:30 Why doesn’t he just say “I’m gay”?
00:36:50 Do questioning/gay-in-denial husbands care about their straight spouses?
00:44:33 Answering the question: “Is my husband gay?”
00:53:13 Closeted men don’t want love, they want approval/recognition
00:54:09 Closeted husbands giving gifts to wives
00:54:56 Tricks closeted men use to distract their wives
01:03:07 Closeted husbands claiming “sexual abuse made me gay”
01:15:55 Signs your questioning/gay-in-denial husband is cheating
01:20:54 Why couples counselling rarely works in gay/straight relationships
01:25:30 When straight wives cheat
01:31:50 Why didn’t my questioning/gay husband let me go?
01:33:40 Why is my straight ex-wife so angry?
01:39:40 Straight spouse: where’s my f*cking pride parade?
01:42:11 My current relationship with ex-wife 

Again I'm very sorry that your husband has put you through all of this. In my opinion, your husband is as gay as a rainbow and I'd recommend you listen to the above and continue exchanging with fellow straight spouses for support. I did many of the same things he did so the podcast may be relevant to your situation. I'd also suggest that you: 

- Focus on your mental health and the mental health of your son, perhaps by seeking out counselling. 
- Read up on narcissism and co-dependency because your husband sounds like a black-belt narcissist.
- Get tested for STDs/STIs and only practice safe sex. 
- If he hasn't already done so, your husband will likely try to initiate sex with you to prove that he's straight (it's called a "honeymoon phase" and normally lasts just a few months). If he does, use condoms. 
- Be prepared for your husband to bring up a sexual abuse history to explain away his attraction to men. 
- Read this website's "First Aid Kit" and reach out to the "Our Path" hotline for help. 

Thank you again for posting and please feel free to comment and/or challenge anything I've shared above. Be well! 

 

January 8, 2022 3:44 pm  #1819


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for replying Lostintranslation (or "LIT"). I want to emphasize that none of this is your fault. As I shared in the above referenced podcast and as I've posted many times here before, straight wives are guilty of nothing more than wanting to be loved and cherished by broken husbands. So you're not stupid and none of this is your fault. I would urge you to speak to someone in the next few days, perhaps by contacting the SSN/Our Path hotline. Just talking to someone who has been through a similar situation will greatly lighten the burden. You might also consider therapy, either in person or online, with an experienced counsellor. As always, please feel free to post as often as you like. You're not alone and you're among friends. Take care.  

 

January 8, 2022 4:34 pm  #1820


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Hello lostintranslation and Sean,

I don't mean to hijack your thread.

LIT, your son may benefit seeing a child psychologist.  One helped my niece who had great difficulty with her parents divorce at age nine. She isolated herself from friends and pulled out her hair (  Trichotillomania).  She's a well-adjusted adult now who's an attorney and recently had a baby girl.

Words to the wise, it may be prudent to mentally distance yourself from your husband.  My late GIDXH baited me into arguments. It was meant to upset and control me into accepting the status quo.  Save your mental strength for improving your and your son's life. You both deserve so much more.

Take care!
Maria


No - It's not too late. It's not hopeless. Even there, there's something I can do. I just have to find the will. Ikiru (1952), film directed by Akira Kurosawa 
 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum