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May 27, 2021 5:01 pm  #41

Re: Happy MOM for 15 years and going (lesbian & str8 man)


I'm so sorry for you. It takes both spouses who go for it in a MOM, so don't blame yourself if you tried but the other won't. It's not within your power what he decides, and that's not your responsibility.
Even when someone makes wrong decisions in your opinion, it's still their decision. It's hard to let go and accept that, but it's the only thing you can do.


May 27, 2021 5:05 pm  #42

Re: Happy MOM for 15 years and going (lesbian & str8 man)


I do understand your situation and how bewildering this is to you. I'm glad you read my posts what got you a perspective on the possibility of ways forward. Of course it's something you go into together with your wife. It's equally important how she handles it all.
It's a terribly complex situation and mix of feelings, most profoundly in the first year(s). It demands a lot of wisdom (to learn along the way) to get through it. 
Back in 2005 it felt to me like a journey to "Worlds End" without any maps to sail on. And yes I hope you can shorten the route and beat my time table! But it'll nevertheless take some years I think, so don't count in months. And this is not as bad as it looks, for there's really a lot to learn along the way. The quality of the relation and level of communication with your wife will deepen a lot. You both need time to allow this to develop.
We got several delays because of unrelated circumstances and (mayor) events, after all life around you goes on. A lot of those things stalled our progress because of the attention it needed. But our main delay was when things were 'sort of okay' and like it's 'stable and doable' so we contended more or less. We simply didn't know we actually could go further. (well, if nobody tells you...)

But for now it's best to focus on the short term. Is your wife's priority directed at your relation, if so what are the choices she's willing to make? What kind of person is she? Has she expressed steps she wants to take because she knows she's lesbian?
Obviously I've no answers to everything, but if I can give you advice from my experience I will. I'll check in on the forum regularly (at least every few days), so allow me some time to respond.

     Thread Starter

May 28, 2021 2:06 am  #43

Re: Happy MOM for 15 years and going (lesbian & str8 man)


Thank you for your reply. No worries if you don't get back to messages quickly. I am sure you have a lot going on as we all do. I have a few thoughts/questions, I would like to run past you. First I am in a better place mentally today, however I still woke up at 2 a.m. and can not sleep but I feel that will come with the territory for now. My wife and I had a decent night last night. We told he 17 year old son. That was helpful, he was very supportive and reassured that if it was him, he would do the same thing and work through this. He also told me (when my wife was putting the 3 year old to bed) "he thinks this will build a stronger relationship between my wife and I". In her life she has always been rejected by those who loved her when things were tough, including her father. For her she is not used to someone who will put up a fight to keep her, for me why on earth would I not because I value her so much and our family is wonderful. Anyways we had some drinks last night and she said "I wish I felt like this forever" I asked what she meant by that and she told me the feelings she has towards me when she is drinking. It is a wonderful feeling for me however this time I took it with a grain of salt because on Mon night is was similar when we had drinks together but then the next morning it was back to reality. So it is interesting to me that when she has alcohol she gets that attraction sexual back. Is this something you discovered too I know on your wife's post she mentioned having a glass on wine to fill your needs? Obviously drinking all the time is not an option but it does give me hope that deep down there is the desire for me and over time I can get it to come out sober. In the meantime I can just know that the times we do have drinks we will have a temporary connection. Does that make sense or am I just being crazy?

Another thing I would like to ask. Did you and your wife live like a normal married couple just knowing that there is something missing? If so was that right away? To elaborate, we got invited to a music fest, we have a little graduation party for a friend to go to this weekend. I assume we just go like there is nothing different and carry on with our lives but working through this? Obviously if she wants to open up to friends she can and I support her for it, it sounds like that is part of this process?

This is all so new to us and my head just keeps spinning. I did set up a sexual therapist appointment for next Tue. They were very open minded and had heard of MOM. The first one I called, you could almost hear in their voice "What are you crazy, this will never work". I need to get a therapist appointment for myself too. Also when this first came out on Sun, we had our marriage counseling on Mon morning. The direction the counselor was taking appeared to go into the realm of us splitting (that turned out to just be my fear) so I ended up walking out. However she did tell my wife that if she wanted to work through this she was there for us. So we will continue to see her. I think the hardest part is going to be communication for us. I am a communicator who asks a lot of questions. My wife is one that keeps it bottled up and you talked so much about communication being a big factor. That has been a push from the start with our counsellor before all this. I did follow your advice and told her one of my triggers was when she compares me to being a friend or her best friend. For me that is like the idea of when you got rejected and were told "I like you as a friend" or "can we just be friends". It stings when I hear it. Yes my wife is my "best friend" but she is more than that and she is that because she is my wife, outside of us being married we wouldn't be friends, we would be strangers or 2 people that know of each other. I can call her my best friend because of the connection we have had over the 8 years we have been together. She also told me to stop coming up and saying "can I ask you a question" and just ask the question. 

I might have rambled a bit and I am sure I am forgetting something but I am also very sleep deprived lol. Thank you again for everything.

P.S. you and your wife have some of the best English I have seen. We live in America, we have been butchering true English over here for many years


May 30, 2021 7:31 am  #44

Re: Happy MOM for 15 years and going (lesbian & str8 man)

Noname wrote:

So it is interesting to me that when she has alcohol she gets that attraction sexual back. Is this something you discovered too I know on your wife's post she mentioned having a glass on wine to fill your needs? 

My wife sometimes drank a glass of wine just to loosen up a bit, not as an attempt to get in touch with her feelings. At that time we accepted the limitation our sexual relation had. Though deep in my heart I hoped she would somehow "get it" what my feelings were. Still, we tried to make the best of it, giving physical pleasure to each other. And there is love, care and respect and it's voluntary, so it's not a negative thing to do. It's the pragmatic decision we made, and in a way this acknowledged we were more than "good friends". That was much more important to me than to her. My wife didn't get that from our sexual intimacy, because she didn't let me into that part of her feelings.

Obviously drinking all the time is not an option but it does give me hope that deep down there is the desire for me and over time I can get it to come out sober. In the meantime I can just know that the times we do have drinks we will have a temporary connection. Does that make sense or am I just being crazy?

I understand your theory, but I don't think it's about hidden desire that has to come out. At least that's not how we experienced it when it all started to change for us.
It's more like opening a door inside that part of her feeling and letting you in. Well, maybe enough alcohol can temporary do that trick, but it's artificial and not the real thing. And the fog of alcohol spoils the beauty of it anyway.

When my wife let me into her feelings, her feeling and emotions were also in her sexual expression. It really felt like a route opened up between us. In the ensuing months sexual desire came about as a natural result. She simply became aware of it: "wow, I really like it".  So once that "door" was open, we didn't have to do anything special, it all fell into place by itself and it's going with the flow.

Did you and your wife live like a normal married couple just knowing that there is something missing?

Yes, to most of the outside world we looked like just some married couple and we thought that was fine. 
A few of our closest friends knew, and that was useful because it can help to be able to talk to someone you trust. And my wife told it some of her siblings, I think she felt she wanted to do that in the sense that it's not some dark secret nobody should know.
But telling about it to lots of acquaintances, colleagues from work etc. has no merit. Many people don't understand a MOM and may talk to you in ways you don't want or gossip behind your back.
When you're still busy finding your way through it together, the focus should be on what could benefit your relation. There is vulnerability in that, so I would tell others only on a need to know basis.

Later we became more open about it, this went hand in hand with the positive developments in our relation. 

I know the trouble finding the right therapist. It's so important you're certain he/she is willing and capable to reach the goal you want to go for.
Not so long ago I met the therapist that helped us on the way (after the first year of our journey). I hadn't seen her for many years, so I told her about what had happened in our life. Especially about that moment my wife's feelings opened up to me. She wasn't that surprised, because she knew in her experience also it could go that way (not implying that it always will).

     Thread Starter

May 27, 2022 10:28 am  #45

Re: Happy MOM for 15 years and going (lesbian & str8 man)

Some time ago, we were asked to write an (initial version of) "a first aid kit" for the MOM section. I tried several times, but got stuck, The situations of MOM's are so diverse. Yes, there are common themes: Real acceptance (most important), openess and  communication (also most important). Set your common goal and go for it as a team. Rebuilding trust and supporting each other as spouses. Finding the right kind of support (therapists that really align with the goal you both set). Choose your own way together, no matter what other people do or think.

But it feels too much like a clinical list, without the real life story where these aspects are applied and real people were going through these things. Next to that, it doesn't acknowledge the mere diversity of situations people could  find themselves in. 

When we were at the start of our journey, utterly confused and anxious, The most helpful to us would have been a possitive story of a couple that went in and through it. Yes, there will be differences in someones personal account of their path, and therefor some things will not be applicable. But there will certainly be several common features as well.
Next to that, it's hopeful just to read about other accounts than pain, missery and failure. Some marriages fail, but some succeed and bring about something better than it was before. So, the path is difficult but not doomed.

I think the "First aid kit" should be about stories of couples that made it. Let people, in very diverse situations and with their particular spouse, decide for themselves whether and how aspects of these stories could apply to them. Everyone has to puzzle their own (beautiful) picture they want to built with their spouse. It won't be the excact same picture as ours, but it's about fitting the pieces together and finding the image you both go for, that matters.

Having some examples, is a very important thing. That's "the first aid".

     Thread Starter

September 14, 2022 12:05 pm  #46

Re: Happy MOM for 15 years and going (lesbian & str8 man)

Hi Dutchman,

I read your struggles and can relate to it. My question for you is how did you keep going when times were hard and hopeless? Do you have any recommendations on the type of therapist that would be helpful during the turmoil era of the relationship?


September 14, 2022 2:48 pm  #47

Re: Happy MOM for 15 years and going (lesbian & str8 man)

Hi JV42,

initialy we had a therapist who pressed on opening up the relation, presenting that option as more or less the only possible solution. We didn't want that.
We found another therapist that was confirming my wife's sexual orientation. Not trying to deny it, hide it or convert it, etc.
But she helped to put sexual orientation into a more "normalized perspective" instead of some "all defining leading attribute" that precribes someone what to think and do.
Key principle: Sexual orientation is something you have, not something you are.
This perspective helped us a lot, since then we approached our situation as something we (possibly) could deal with. This still was a complicated journey we had to find our path through. But this insight that therapist gave us was very valuable.

Accepting sexual orientation doesn't necessarily imply living it out. These are very diffent things. 
Sexual orientation is not a choice, "it happens" so to speak. But living it out, acting on it, definitely is a matter of choice.

In modern culture, the gay affirmative script says these things are one and the same. This is not true, and for sure a destructive way of thinking for a monogamous MOM. 
On the other side, the more conservative religious thinking, blocks acceptance of sexual orientation, by explicity or implicitly considering it as something that is wrong, has to be supressed, etc. This isn't helpful for a succesful MOM either. 

So I would recommend a therapist that has a balanced view. On one hand confirming sexual orientation and self acceptance, on the other hand confirming the ability to make choices (ie. not dictated by sexual orientation).

It's very much about freedom of independent thinking, and attributing meaning to the path one decides to go on (foremost motivated by love for each other in marriage).

We had the fortune to find a therapist that helped us on our way. (nearly 17 years ago in the Netherlands, so that's not much use to you). But maybe you can search for a therapist that follows the principles of logotherapy.
A couple of years ago I read the book "Man's search for meaning" by Viktor Frankl. I noted how much of it corresponded with things we had discovered and learned over the years. Victor Frankl developed "logotherapy" so it could be useful to find a therapist that works from that principle and has a balanced look on sexual orientation. 


     Thread Starter

September 14, 2022 4:17 pm  #48

Re: Happy MOM for 15 years and going (lesbian & str8 man)

As usual, your post is so helpful, & I wasn't even the target! Thanks so much😎


September 15, 2022 2:27 pm  #49

Re: Happy MOM for 15 years and going (lesbian & str8 man)

Thank you for the response Dutchman! I was looking through a website and noticed some comments regarding monogamous MOMs. There are some people that have experienced the gay+1 relation but there are some people that love their spouse and are monogamous but still experience struggles with missing out. I know that Samantha said that if the gay spouse is still experiencing these feelings that there needs to be more work done. What type of work needs to be done? Is it within the relationship or within the gay or straight spouse? Do you both still experience the missing feelings or have you fully worked through everything?


September 15, 2022 5:35 pm  #50

Re: Happy MOM for 15 years and going (lesbian & str8 man)

Hi JV42,

I assume you've been thrown into this MOM situation recently, you're feeling confused and devastated, the ground under your feet is swept away.
I do understand your current prediciment. It's a terrible situation you're in. You feel lost, in a world that at least seemed to make some sense, but now even that sense feels like it's gone.
You're not alone in this, you're not the only one that goes/went through it, and hopefully that gives you some comfort to know.
It's not your fault or something you did wrong, it just happened to you. Nevertheless, it's a reality you have to deal with.

You can't control it to a certain outcome, for you're spouse is the other half of the equation. You can only do your best and strive to what you think is the good thing to go for.
My wife and I can report of our way through it. Good choises we made, the mistakes we made. When we say we arrived in a good situation, that's also true and honest. 
We have no intention to suggest something that isn't true. So what we tell about our marriage relation is: What you see is what you get.

However, it should also be clear that we didn't jump over difficulties to suddenly get where we are now. We really had to go through it, and this road wasn't easy.
Sure, it was worth it, but that's something you say when you get to the other side. The important thing we want to convey is that there is this other side one can reach. It's not a phantasy, it can be real.
It's up to you and your spouse if you both want to go there. It's a joint venture, it's a quest you both accomplish together. Quite possible you'll have to be confronted with yourself in a way you never expected.
One spouse can have the task to lead the way. The situation is full of fog and misguiding sideways, so it's no easy stroll forward.

I hope you get the central theme of our story, the total and full acceptance of one self and of each other. This may sound like an abstract thought. But the thing is that this has to become real, fully lived and integrated.
As I write it, I also know it's not appreciated to the full meaning I intend it. This truly is a learning process, and it takes time.

It's more easy to go for half baked solutions. Things like denial, supression of feelings, playing it down, avoiding the real thing. etc.
That way the struggle remains in some form, troubles will keeping returning, fears will be alive. Ever waiting for the other shoe to drop. These are the fears you express. 
Rightfully so, I think many MOM's don't go down the real constructive path. They get stuck, and without better options available, go for opening up the relation as the only way out.

Getting back to your questions.
We don't experience struggle or missing out. That is, not beyond everyone's usual experience, for marriage is by definition limiting options to the one you chose, "missing out" all others.
Finding inner fullfilment with each other, true loving and truly being loved, is and should be enough. There is no reason for struggle, if both are known and accepted to the core.
When marriage (including MOMs) comes to this level, both are blessed with the deeply felt intimacy that accompanies this kind of relations.
Sexuality is the physical expression of this relation you share. Sexuality is not some label or abstract lust thing, it´s an expression of love which you share with the one you love the most.
We love each other, we experience and express that (also) in our sexual relation. Why would we feel missing out something, if that's the expression of our being?
Maybe many problems arise because sexualty is seen as a goal, instead of a means. 

We're beyond that kind of troubles. Sexual orientation has become a playful aspect of who we are. But acknowledging the deeper meaning and impact of sexuality we choose and set our limitations as well.
This certainly is not anywhere like "a struggle", but deciding on a healthy and good conduct in life. Sexuality serves our love, not the other way arround.


     Thread Starter

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