It helps more than you know.  Thank you

Thank you for posting MJM. You shared: 

"I spent about 24 years with him between dating and marriage...I divorced him a few years ago and am much, much  happier without him." 

Questions: why did you decide to leave the marriage? Did you have a final realization or did he finally do something unforgiveable? No problem if you don't want to respond. 

Hi Sean,

First thank you for doing this! Answering everyone’s questions!! It’s so helpful & brave of you.  I have posted on this forum, desperately trying get some peace. Does my husband sound like he’s exploring:

1.  He kissed “a couple- maybe 2” guys in highchsool. Quotes are his words exactly. Said he kissed boys because many guys in his boarding school were gay and he absorbs energy of his friends.  Stopped kissing boys because an older man got him drunk and took advantage of him- he eluded to the older man giving my husband a blow job. He said this rape/male station was so traumatic for him that he never kissed boys after that.  All this happened in highschool.  He is now in his late 30s.

2. Wore my shorts to work once  because he said no clean laundry

3. Sits to pee (but only in the master bathroom not our other bathrooms). He knows I’m uncomfortable with it but says it’s cleaner.

4. Watched entire Netflix series “Hollywood” which has heavy gay content (in my eyes - it seemed like soft porn- though I totally don’t know what soft porn is—-I just know this show had many gay naked men kissing & walking around)

5. Best friend from elementary school is a transvestite. I found another childhood friend of his is also now a transvestite.

I’m going nuts and have seemed to ask everyone in this forum their take. I finally mustered up the courage to ask you. He denies being gay and states he “likes vagina” . Which I believe. But I wonder if he’s more bi than gay.  I’ve talked him about it now 2 times, both times he was very understanding. I don’t believe he has been unfaithful. Very kind & committed man.

Does he sound bisexual or exploring or straight?

Last edited by Treelovingvegan (May 15, 2021 10:45 pm)

Hi Sean! Thank you for responding! Your questions are insightful.

Séan wrote:

1. Please send me a list, not explanations mind you, of your mental and physical state for the past year. Here is an example of how I felt my final year of marriage to a straight woman:

***You hit them all spot on and in the exact order of most common to least. Seems I feel the same way you felt.

Anxious (this is the most constant & pronounced feeling)
Depressed
Insomnia (I’m starting to dream about this)
Angry (I am not really angry with him because I feel sad for him if he can’t express how he feels. I’m angry with myself for not having more of a clear picture. And if I’m truly honest. Angry with God- which I know is wrong. )


2. Next I'd like you to describe how your husband makes you feel. Again, please write just words, not explanations. 

***
Lucky
Blessed
Fortunate
Scared
Unsafe

3. Finally, I'd like you to complete this sentence, "Love for me means...." 

****to be Respected & to feel safe & to sacrifice for the other... all equally important

Thank you in advance for your answers. Now in response to your questions: 

1.  He kissed “a couple- maybe 2” guys in high school. Quotes are his words exactly. Said he kissed boys because many guys in his boarding school were gay and he absorbs energy of his friends. 

Conflicted or closeted spouses don't have very good track records of accurately defining their own sexualities. This is why I always urge straight spouses to focus on facts. It's not because these are bad people, it's just that they see things through the smeared lenses of shame and denial. When I read these kinds of things here, I tend to adopt an "iceberg" approach. For example, if a husband admits to just 1 sexual affair with a man, I then multiply it x9 because, like icebergs, 90% of the truth is under water. FACT: Your husband kissed boys (and likely more) in high school. 

***yes we had our third discussion and he disclosed that while they were “maybe 2” boys in highschool, he kissed one of them twice. At a spin the bottle game & in their dorm room (they were roommates & other guy was gay with a boyfriend. He said he remembered not liking to kiss a scrufy face.).

2. Stopped kissing boys because an older man got him drunk and took advantage of him- he eluded to the older man giving my husband a blow job. He said this rape/male station was so traumatic for him that he never kissed boys after that.  All this happened in high school.  He is now in his late 30s.

This doesn't make sense. If your husband was indeed drunk or drugged to the point of incapacity, he wouldn't get an erection. While I don't have all the facts, I reckon he was both thrilled and scared during this formative sexual experience. FACT: Your husband had sex with an older man in high school. 

*** he seems so traumatized by this. I’m not a social worker but work in a social workers office, and he truly seems to exhibit signs of trauma from this.


3. Wore my shorts to work once  because he said no clean laundry. 

Ok.  ***does this have relevance?

3. Sits to pee (but only in the master bathroom not our other bathrooms). He knows I’m uncomfortable with it but says it’s cleaner.

Got it. ***we had a huge fight about this. He has stopped sitting to pee but now refuses to use our master bathroom, after I told him that as a compromise— he continues to sit/stand to pee as he desires but just close the door so I don’t have to see. Ha! Maybe we should have been doing closing the doors anyways—-married life comforts I suppose— hahaha.

4. Watched entire Netflix series “Hollywood” which has heavy gay content (in my eyes - it seemed like soft porn- though I totally don’t know what soft porn is—-I just know this show had many gay naked men kissing & walking around). 

Ok. FACT: He likes gay online content.

 **he swore to me he has never watched gay porn. I believe him that he has never watched it

5. Best friend from elementary school is a transvestite. I found another childhood friend of his is also now a transvestite.

FACT: Has friends who cross dress. 
***is this relevant?

6. I’m going nuts and have seemed to ask everyone in this forum their take. I finally mustered up the courage to ask you. He denies being gay and states he “likes vagina” . Which I believe. But I wonder if he’s more bi than gay.  I’ve talked him about it now 2 times, both times he was very understanding. I don’t believe he has been unfaithful. Very kind & committed man.

I'm in my late 40s and have unfortunately become a bit of a relic when it comes to defining sexuality. Also as a gay man, I tend to do that thing where I think every man is gay so please take my advice with a pinch of "pink" salt. As such, I tend to err on the "gay or straight" scale, although I do also believe people can be bisexual. 


***his family is very religious but also very liberal where they would be accepting of homosexuality. I asked him the other night if his parents would be upset if he were gay and he said no. But he said he’s still embarrassed about kissing guys in highschool. I don’t understand why. I am also very liberal (not religious like his parents) and totally accepting of everyone. And we as a couple & individually surround ourselves with very accepting people. We have so many friends of all shades of sexuality. So why would he be so homophobic about his own past experiences?

7. Does he sound bisexual or exploring or straight?

Well the facts certainly suggest your husband is "not straight" so to speak. He's admitted to kissing boys in high school and a sexual experience with a man. He's worn women's clothing and has friends who do the same. He also appears to enjoy gay content and might also watch gay online porn. So what now? Well you can do several things: 

*****is it fair to say “he’s worn women’s clothing if he only did it once? I put those shorts of mine next to a pair of his boxers and they seem about the same size. So maybe it wasn’t that odd he wore them?

And maybe straight men do explore in their youth. Maybe it is very common for heterosexual men?

Thank you again Sean. You don’t know how much you help!!!! I have been religiously checking for your response to my post. It means so much to me!! Thank you!

Last edited by Treelovingvegan (May 18, 2021 8:12 am)

Treelovingvegan wrote:

And maybe straight men do explore in their youth. Maybe it is very common for heterosexual men?

Hey, TLV:  I'm gonna give you some blunt advice.  It's the advice I wish someone had given me when I was having difficulty processing and accepting my ex-wife's year-long, secret same-sex affair.  You are brave to be here and to be posting -- please take this in the spirit in which I intend it.  This probably isn't what you want to hear, but it's what you need to hear.

YOUR HUSBAND IS NOT STRAIGHT.  

There is nothing "very common" about straight guys making out with dudes.  Guys who say they are straight yet watch online gay content, have sex with other men, have lots of transgendered women friends and kiss other men are just one thing:  in deep, deep denial.  Straight guys do not have a youthful, experimental gay phase to confirm their heterosexuality.  There is no closeted straight man lurking within your husband.

I love Sean's questions about your mental state and how your husband makes you feel.  In a truly reciprocal and honest relationship with a partner who values you, terms like "anxious", "depressed", "insomnia", "angry", "scared" and "unsafe" shouldn't even be on the radar screen.  But your feelings are valid.  Listen to your gut because it already knows what you need to do.

Good luck.  Keep writing.

Last edited by Blue Bear (May 18, 2021 12:41 pm)