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Sean wrote:
Thank you for sharing Jo. There is an excellent book that helped me unpack my own broken thinking. The title is "Loving What Is" by Byron Katie. I particularly enjoyed the audio version of the book which I listened to a few times before I truly understood the author's message about something she calls "the work." I highly recommend it. Be well!
Thanks very much Dean. I will look for it.
Lot of people might think me unusual, but my ex-husbands partner from when he passed has made cobtact with me couple times. I met him furst time at fuberal but my son had spojen of him often.
Sonis c hgeckibg in on him today. We were all extremely dignified and kind at the funeral- and that was n o rice and commented on. All if us were pall bearers. At end, My son, partners ex and I all walked together arms around each other behind t h e hearse.
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Thank you for writing Jo and Lonelylady. In response to your post:
1. I am a married woman who suspects my husband is gay. He shows little interest in sex and always had. He literally could spend the rest of our marriage without it.
I'm so sorry you're being sexually neglected...which in my opinion is a form of abuse. This is a common red flag which manifests in several ways such as: refusing to have pre-marital sex for "religious reasons"; no sex on your wedding night; while married making bizarre excuses to avoid sex; or forcing a wife to jump through hoops just to have sex such as washing/douching right before sex.
2. When we do have sex it is never very passionate and never has been.
Again another common red flag. Question: have you caught him watching gay porn?
3. Somebody told me that if he was actually gay he wouldn’t be able to have an erection or at least have a difficult time climaxing which is his opposite problem.
False. While married to a woman, I could have sex and climax but only if I imagined I was having sex with a man.
4. Help! We have tried sex therapy, individual therapy, doctors, me threatening divorce. He initially responds but as soon as I calm down things are back to normal. He NEVER follows through.
While risky, some straight wives I've exchanged messages with have successfully "outed" their husbands the following ways:
a. By asking him if he is "bisexual" rather than "gay." Gay is often too scary for closeted men because they risk losing the cover of heterosexual marriage so saying "I'm bisexual" is often an easier first step.
b. By suggesting a threeway, but without saying whether the third should be a man or a woman. Closeted husbands always choose a male third partner whereas a straight man would logically choose another woman.
c. Another straight spouse lied and said she'd be willing to open up the marriage, effectively letting her husband date other people. He of course chose a man, thereby confirming his true sexual orientation.
If you can, please provide additional details such as being secretive with his devices, watching gay porn, or cheating. Be well!
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Long term girlfriend of 15 years. We probably had sex maybe 5 or six time in the first year then he was “too tired”. I initiated all we did. it always felt very mechanical, like I was having sex with a relative or something. He literally sleeps with a big pillow between us when I did stay over, which I did on weekends maybe the first 10 years or so. I had a stressful job and he has a very prominent and successful job and is a very well respected pillar in our community. I retired a few years ago and immediately started caregiving for family and parents, all who have passed, the last being my Mom a month ago. I am just now allowing myself to open my eyes and really think about what the heck I have been doing with this man and why.
I blamed myself for his lack of attraction and did everything I could think of to “be better”, changed my hair, clothing, became an excellent cook, had plastic surgery (breasts), changed my hair color and style about a million times. I bought a hot tub for him, never used. Wore lingerie to bed, walked around naked, etc. Nothing worked.
He seldom talks about anything other than surface things. He won’t accept gifts from me and if I do give him anything he usually gives it straight to Goodwill. He won’t listen to me re any problems I am having, just changes the subject. We have never gone on a vacation alone, always with his kids, who I love dearly. We never never talk about anything deep. We go to dinner. That’s basically it other than he treated my family so, so kindly during our long ordeal of sicknesses and death.
A couple of years ago before I had to start 24/7 caregiving, he started showing himself to me, maybe on purpose maybe not. He would always insist to sit at the bar in a restaurant, never a table and would talk quite a bit to young male waiters. He would excuse himself to go to the bathroom and I would notice him talking to those same bartenders near the bathroom quite often. He tipped them quite well and they fawn over him. Sometimes, more now than before, we will be at a restaurant bar and a young nervous guy will come in and sit next to him. I get a real vibe from him and he will literally turn away from me to face the young guy. It is a different guy each time. A lifelong friend of his made a joking comment the other night saying he (the friend) could never be gay because he can’t stand the thought of a colonoscopy. He looked at my fellow and said in his direction “sorry”!
He doesn’t like me to have friends or go anywhere without him. If we do go anywhere it is very controlled and we have to leave within about an hour.
I love him as a person, I could love him more if he loved me like a man should love a woman. I don’t want to cause a big problem for him in our small town. I certainly don’t want to hurt his family. I’m completely stuck.
So after all this ranting, my question is could I possibly, in any universe, be wrong on this?
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Please don't blame yourself. It is not you-he is attracted to men. Him not wanting sex is not normal in my opinion. The next time he is talking to a man, look at his eyes. If he is looking at a man with lust in his eyes, it is a sign that he's gay. My long term boyfriend started putting a cat between us in bed about four years ago. To me, these are all red flags. I am so sorry. I was also deceived by a gay man passing as hetrosexual. It is a shame that there is not a law against it. I will hold a good thought for you.
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Thank you for sharing Dixie and Gloria. I'm going to take a different approach and focus on your relationship Dixie before discussing your boyfriend's sexuality. You wrote:
1. I love him as a person...
and your definition of love appears to be the following (these are your own words):
2. Sex/Intimacy:
- had sex maybe 5 or six times in the first year
- sex always felt very mechanical, like having sex with a relative
- sleeps with a big pillow between us
3. Your relationship:
- he seldom talks about anything other than surface things
- he won’t accept gifts from me and if I do give him anything he usually gives it straight to Goodwill
- he won’t listen to me
- we have never gone on a vacation alone
4. His behaviour:
- he would always insist to sit at the bar in a restaurant, never a table and would talk quite a bit to young male waiters
- he would excuse himself to go to the bathroom and I would notice him talking to those same bartenders near the bathroom quite often
- he tipped [staff] quite well and they fawn over him
- we will be at a restaurant bar and a young nervous guy will come in and sit next to him
- he will literally turn away from me to face the young guy
- it is a different guy each time.
- he doesn’t like me to have friends or go anywhere without him
- if we do go anywhere it is very controlled and we have to leave within about an hour
5. How this makes you feel:
- I blame myself for his lack of attraction
- did everything I could think of to “be better"
- I bought a hot tub for him, never used
- Wore lingerie to bed, walked around naked...nothing worked
- I don’t want to cause a big problem for him in our small town
- I certainly don’t want to hurt his family
- I’m completely stuck
Imaging if your daughter/step-daughter came to you and described the following relationship with her boyfriend:
- sexless
- zero intimacy
- little to no communication
- her boyfriend openly flirts with men when they dine out
- she's desperately unhappy and blames herself for the lack of sex/intimacy
My question for you is as follows: what advice would you give your daughter/step-daughter if she described the above relationship? Please post your answer then I'll comment on your reply and share my opinion about your boyfriend. Be well!
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Thank you for this. I have spent so much danged time (years!) wondering what was wrong with me. It helps so much to see it in black and white using my own words. I would never want anyone to waste their precious time and love like I have. I always pushed everything I felt to one side because I didn’t want to upset anyone...everyone likes him, respects him but it is all a house of cards. I spent so many years caring for sick family it was easier to just push this aside to deal with later. After my Mama passed in March, my caregiving duties are now over. I am in limbo about what to do when you don’t have anyone to take care of! But...for the first time this is MY time. I have to figure this out.
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Thank you for replying Dixie. You shared:
"Sometimes, more now than before, we will be at a restaurant bar and a young nervous guy will come in and sit next to him. I get a real vibe from him and he will literally turn away from me to face the young guy. It is a different guy each time."
This is so f*cked up it makes my teeth hurt. My questions are:
1. Who are these young men?
2. How does your boyfriend justify these men showing up while you're out together?
I look forward to your responses. While I don't have a lot of information here, I'd suggest finding a counsellor or therapist who can help you understand that you deserve so much better than this complete loser. Setting aside the issue of his sexuality, I mean *sshole doesn't even start to describe how abusive and disrespectful this man is. You're better than this my friend. You mentioned feeling like a caretaker at times so I'd recommend visiting www.coda.org as a free resource. Please feel free to post again. Be well!
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No idea who these guys are. They don’t talk to him (the ones at the bar) but he physically turns from me and faces whatever TV is over their heads. Some I have felt stare at me like they are jealous. I don’t think I am imagining this. And he goes to a youth boxing gym some Saturdays to watch the teenagers wrestle. He has a client who comes in every couple of weeks and they went on an overseas trip together (supposably business) back before I knew him. He has art from that trip in his hallway, which is very weird.
I can’t believe I have been so stupid. Thank you for your honesty.
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Sean I looked at the coda brochure online. I am pretty much every single characteristic. Thank you for the referral
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There is a lot to unpack here my friend so I'd recommend finding professional help. In the meantime, CODA (co-dependents anonymous) is a free resource that might help you in your journey. Many straight wives I've exchanged with over the years are caretakers and empaths who are also co-dependents. Turning now to your boyfriend, he certainly ticks all the boxes for a gay-in-denial (or "GID") husband/partner:
1. Little interest in sex with women, namely his wife/girlfriend.
2. Abusive/manipulative
3. Male "client" or "friend" who is likely a boyfriend
4. Red flags like gay porn, texting with men, cheating with men. (His wrestling fetish is a huge red flag.)
I wouldn't recommend falling down the rabbit hole of trying to unpack nor understand his sexuality. That's secondary. Based on what you've shared with me in your previous posts, you appear to be in an abusive and sexless relationship with a closeted gay man. Put bluntly, you appear to be in a burning house so I'd suggest working like hell to get the f*ck out. Hope that helps in some way my friend.