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January 4, 2021 11:35 am  #11

Re: Sex is Sex....why is it different or okay because one is bisexual

OutofHisCloset - 
I have a question specifically for you, and would love your opinion - because I feel like I am too much in my own head to see clearly.

My husband has been caught (never CONFESSING ON HIS OWN, mind you) sexting/chatting/video masturbating. This past September was at least the 3rd time in 13 years of marriage... and I don't confront until I have literally month's of proof... masochistic, I know. 
My question is - Is it really not as bad as "going out and actually DOING something"? Like he swears he has never done?
It certainly feels that way... I guess I am trying to figure out if it really isn't as bad, or if the fact that it's with men is what is really bothering me.
He says I am unfair for wanting to leave - that he will "never walk away from our marriage." But that's not fair, I don't think. When we got married, we both agreed that divorce was never going to be an option. But that was also before I realized he is SSA (he won't EVER admit to being gay, as that is a "label that is trying to define him by something he isn't"). 
I don't think he grasps that it's not exactly the masturbation that bothers me - I get it, men masturbate. It's the fact that it's only ever with other men... am I overreacting?
Any opinions would be welcome!


January 4, 2021 12:19 pm  #12

Re: Sex is Sex....why is it different or okay because one is bisexual

was there an asterisk with your wedding vows so as to permit his gay side to come out? if not, well remind him life isn't fair. its not fair for you to live knowing this for the rest of your life. if you stay, its not fair to always fear, doubt, question, or exhaust any other energy and emotions on that side of him, to always questions if you'll ever be enough. and if you leave, remind him its not fair that you ll live the rest of your life, possibly withdrawn, wear and fearful of love, not trusting, or even willing to want to try.. doubting what was real in your marriage what wasn't. 
yeah. lets talk about far. 

it is, what it is. 

January 4, 2021 1:00 pm  #13

Re: Sex is Sex....why is it different or okay because one is bisexual

Okay, since you asked I'll tell you what I think. 

I think your husband is gaslighting the hell out of you, and like other in-denial and closeted spouses he'll spout whatever word salad and engage in whatever verbal gymnastics he thinks will achieve his goal, which is to keep you compliant, on the defensive, off balance and questioning yourself, quiescent and in his closet, and in the marriage, so he can keep his cover, his beard, and his on-the-side activities.  He'll minimize (it's not actual sex!), deflect (let's not talk about my attraction to men, let's talk about your unfair reaction!), try to make himself look like the victim (it's not his behavior that's the problem, it's your reaction!), and blame you by making you look like the bad guy (HE would never leave the marriage, he says--although he already has, by seeking his erotic fulfillment outside of your marriage).  These are the classic signs of abuse, otherwise known as DARVO (deflect, attack, reverse-victim-offender).  They're also the classic signs of narcissistic entitlement--at some level he believe what HE wants is more important than anything you feel or anything you want, and he also believes he should get what he wants. 

  After years of living with my own closeted spouse, I have come to believe that living a life of denial and in the closet warps a person's personality: I call it "the pathology of the closet."  The cognitive dissonance one experiences when maintaining one is straight while feeling sexually attracted to the same sex is intolerable, and is managed by compartmentalizing and rationalizing.  When challenged, the discomfort they feel at having the two things they try so hard to keep separate brought together is so intense they go on the defensive by going on the offensive, and attack, and that offensive and attack includes the behaviors I described above, and what you experienced.  Chump Lady has a saying: "Don't put your head in the mindfuck blender."  You're not going to get clarity or honest conversation; all you're going to get is a lot of spin which is going to set you whirling.  That's what trying to have an honest conversation with an in-denial/closeted desperate spouse is: like putting your head in a mindfuck blender.  

  I also think that no, you're not "overreacting" (although even to engage in this question is to get into the mindfuck blender).  You're reacting from your own understanding of how a marriage should proceed.  At base, though, whether or not your husband believes what he's doing is "not as bad" is irrelevant.  YOU believe it is wrong, YOU feel it as hurtful. (And I would agree it's both wrong and hurtful, by the way, because he is directing his erotic attention to someone outside the marriage rather than to you.)  And it is not acceptable to you.  Now you have to decide what you're going to do in response to it, because your husband has made it clear by his actions over the twelve years of your marriage that he isn't going to stop. (A useful precept: The best evidence of future behavior is past behavior.)

  You seem to believe that if you could just explain to your husband why what he's doing bothers you--if "he grasps" why--then he would see it from your perspective, understand it as hurtful, and stop.  Dr. George Simon, a psychologist who specializes in the workings of psychological manipulation, has a couple of sayings that apply here: "It's not that they don't see, it's that they disagree," and "it's not that they're unaware, they just don't care."   You are trying to get your husband to see your point of view so he will understand why what he does is hurtful and stop what he's doing.  You have clear and repeated evidence that he will not stop it (three go-rounds in twelve years of marriage) and that he does not care that you don't like it.  It's not that he's unaware--he doesn't care.  No one wants to believe this, of course; we want to continue hoping we can fix things, that we can make them see, and that once they see they'll stop.  Hope and denial go hand in hand with us.

 You know what your values are.  He doesn't share them.  You have made clear that you don't like what he does.  He doesn't care.  I don't know if you've actually set a boundary and told him if he continues you're leaving, and he then violated your boundary, and you're now considering whether or not to dish out the consequence of leaving, but you already know that if you stay the future will look just like the past. Is that acceptable to you?

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (January 4, 2021 2:30 pm)


January 4, 2021 1:26 pm  #14

Re: Sex is Sex....why is it different or okay because one is bisexual

OutofHisCloset wrote:

.,.....You have clear and repeated evidence that he will not stop it (three go-rounds in twelve years of marriage).....and that he does not care that you don't like it......


I could type out a long reply but I'd just be repeating what OOHC has said.
  What stood out most was the words above

"and that he does not care that you don't like it"

KIA KAHA                       

January 4, 2021 5:39 pm  #15

Re: Sex is Sex....why is it different or okay because one is bisexual

OutofHisCloset wrote:

Regardless of emotional attachment, having sex with anyone outside of marriage is cheating, whether you're visiting prostitutes or getting it on with a "friend with benefits."  Think about it: if it were just sexual release, he could masturbate.  He's just rationalizing, something gay in denial men are very good at.  Also, his mooning about is a manipulative tactic that is designed to make you feel you need to address his unhappiness by accommodating his desire to have sex with men.  
What kind of husband discusses with his wife how awful he feels about not being able to have sex with his male partners?  He is showing no regard for your feelings at all. 

Really well said (as always). If it's just sex, would it really be worth putting an entire relationship in jeopardy? 


January 5, 2021 11:28 am  #16

Re: Sex is Sex....why is it different or okay because one is bisexual

OOHC needs to write a book

-Formerly "Lostdad" - I now embrace the username "phoenix" because my former life ended in flames, but my new life will be spectacular. 


January 5, 2021 12:26 pm  #17

Re: Sex is Sex....why is it different or okay because one is bisexual

    You hit the nail on the head, and in more ways than one.  Yes, if it is "just sex," it wouldn't "be worth putting an entire relationship [marriage] in jeopardy."   Fact is, it's not "just sex"; it's sexual orientation.  This was one of the hardest things for me to understand and accept: if my spouse was willing to deep six our marriage and risk our and his financial future (we were both facing down retirement) would he do this on a whim?  Would he do this for momentary and fleeting sexual pleasure?  No.  He was willing to do it because he felt his sexuality as a core element of himself that he had denied and suppressed for fifty years.  And once he declared it, there was no going back for him.  He decided to stay in the closet, but he wasn't going to change his mind about who he was or what he wanted, and he wasn't going to stop satisfying his desires.  It took a long time for me to understand this, and no wonder: I had had no inkling and he'd given no clue.  He had sprung it all on me out of the blue, and I was knocked back on my heels, reeling, and playing catch up.  Plus his words and behavior were so volatile and over the top and inconsistent that I thought he was having a mental breakdown (there had been a death in the family that was very painful to him).  But as time passed, and his feelings only increased, and I saw what he was willing to give up (me, a comfortable retirement), and how he was willing to treat me, I had to come around to accepting that whatever was going on with him, it was not something that was going to go away, he was not going "to come to his senses," and I could not continue to live in his closet the rest of my life. 

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (January 5, 2021 12:29 pm)


January 5, 2021 5:53 pm  #18

Re: Sex is Sex....why is it different or okay because one is bisexual

phoenix wrote:

OOHC needs to write a book

I was thinking this exact thing! OOHC is dropping truth here. Please write a book.

Sonata - 

Your husband is holding your relationship hostage. He entered into a contract and is now trying to force you to change the rules. It is highly likely he will cheat now, as asking for forgiveness is his only option to fulfill his needs.

The question is: where is your line? Is it if he asks again? If he hides a meeting with a friend? If he cheats once? Twice? Draw this clearly and firmly.

Then, what will you do when this boundary is crossed? Is this a reason to get counseling or divorce? Sketch out what that looks like so it is clear. When it happens you will know.

As a straight man, the idea of touching another guy’s penis is not pleasant. The idea of stepping out of my marriage is cringe inducing. And the idea of asking my wife to allow me to step out of my marriage for this reason seems insane. This request alone shows he is bisexual and is willing to deal with a very awkward conversation in hopes to get his way.

Wishing you strength!


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