Thank you for posting Texasjulia, Abby, and OOHC. I'm not sure I have a lot to add to what you've written Texasjulia (or "TJ"), although I would like to comment on some common traits of gay men born in the 60s and 70s (currently in their 50s and 60s). Please note, however, that I'm just sharing my opinions as I don't have any mental health training. 

1. My ex is 58.  We were together for 23 years (married 18 years). I read somewhere in your thread (either you or someone else) wrote how being gay from that generation is extremely uncomfortable because of the social norms during their life.  Also - my ex is in an industry where it is not OK to be gay (an unspoken rule).

As I've shared in previous posts, different generations of gay men had/have different coping mechanisms. Given what I've read here and based on my own personal friendships and experience, the tipping point appears to be sometime around 1969-1970...symbolically around the Stonewall riots in NYC. For reference, I'm writing this in December 2020. Most of the gay men I've met who are 50+, meaning born before 1970, followed this path: 

- Sensitive and impeccably groomed mama's boys
- Few (or no) girlfriends
- Married and had children (because this was expected of them)
- Little interest in straight sex and may have avoided pre-marital sex because of (fake) religious beliefs
- Husband-like friendships with other gay men, often married 

As TJ shared: 

3) I have found out recently he never really had girlfriends in High School nor College, nor in between (we met when he was 33 (I was 23).  I thought that was odd (he was so good looking), and remember thinking at first...is he gay?  But then I thought...quit being such a small town girl...this guy is WORLDY.

I found this interesting....

4) He has an openly gay younger brother (whom he loathes).

This is actually quite common among older closeted men. In some cases, mature closeted men hide their own sexuality by being almost violently anti-gay. The classic case is the 50+ macho military man who acts like an anti-gay bigot to hide his homosexuality.  So I'm not surprised your closeted ex-husband hates his brother...for being everything he isn't. 

7) Very Soon Things Changed.  The first thing that changed was No More French Kissing.  "His tongue was too short."  That also meant "No Muff Diving" for me (same excuse). I actually don't think he ever did that to me...although I tried to get him to!  Again...Sigh...Nieve...Soft-Hearted.  When someone lives a lie...they are incredibly smooth and calculating. 8. Sex Was Mechanical. 9. He Never Looked Me In The Eyes During Sex.  EVER.  As in 23 years ever. Early in the relationship this bothered me.  I mentioned it to my older cousin, and she said, "Oh men are like that in the beginning."  Well, the beginning never evolved.  But I was GIDDY in love and that just became our normal.

This mirrors my own experience as a gay man married to a woman. Sex was always very prim, no passion, and the frequency diminished as I got older. I also hated kissing. It's not uncommon for the closeted husband to get creative with his excuses or make ridiculous rules to avoid sex. My own ability to 'pretend' to be straight in the bedroom fell off once I'd discovered gay porn. And once I'd had sex with a man, I could no longer have sex with my (then) wife. I reckon it was a mix of not wanting to put her at risk for STIs and also an inability to continue pretending. For any straight wives reading this, for the gay male (not bisexual male mind you), sex with a woman is akin to being forced to have sex with a sister or female cousin. 

12. He had a benign brain tumor removed at 44...and that is when things REALLY changed.  My psychiatrist has told me, "I see this all of the time. It can unlock dormant DNA. Once you cut the brain, it's never the same."  That being said...now that I am out of the marriage...the tendencies were always there. (sidebar....words I NEVER thought I would say NOR type in my life story..."my psychiatrist." Did I mention I had a nervous breakdown due to all of this? If Jerry Springer calls one more time, I am blocking him.)

Fascinating stuff. 

15. He became CRUEL, OPENLY NARCESSISTIC, A RAGER & SEXUALLY ABUSIVE. He was MAD & DISGUSTED he had to have heterosexual sex. Clueless, I would get on my knees and beg him, "I just want my husband back."  It's funny what your subconscious knows....  He would rage on me in front of our 4-year-old daughter so frequently I began to lock the bathroom door at bathtime in hopes of avoiding it.  One time she asked me, "Mamma...why did you marry him."  #HEARTCRUSHING

I went through a similar angry phase. I reckon anger/abuse were my coping mechanisms for living a fake life.  

17. After being seperated for over 2 years, and divorced 1 year, he has YET to go on ONE date with a female.  But he does run around with other men who have not had sex with their wives in 10-15 years.  The wives (my friends) know their husbands are closeted gays, but they "love them."  

This is a very typical "New York" style gay/straight arrangement from the 60s and 70s. It's all very "Boys in the Band."  

18. I'm still GRIEVING!  It's the ultimate betrayal.  If he would have just told me! I would have been so sympathetic!  No one WANTS to be gay.  It's not an easy life.  I NEVER would have betrayed him.  EVER. EVER. EVER. 19. Him not telling me made our divorce incredibly bitter. It didn't have to be that way. It could have been so calm, and we could have avoided so much of the drama that happened and gone through the process as a team.  Instead....it was so INCREDIBLY bitter. When you lie about who you are....you lie about everything.

I think it's normal, healthy and a sign of healing to experience an angry phase. Most straight wives go through an angry phase and often stalk their ex-husbands online. It's also quite common for the mature closeted gay man to remarry a woman.  

Thank you for sharing TJ. For every straight spouse posting here, I reckon there are countless more following your journeys. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (December 8, 2020 10:13 am)

texasjulia, your story is eerily similar to mine.  I've been on here for a while (discovery in June), but your story caught me b/c of:
 - similar age difference (he's 11 years older)
 - grew up in PA, lived in NYC for 15, moved all over; worldly
 - sex/intimacy was robotic (no eye contact)
 - I grew up in a small town; naive as well; still realizing I live under a rock (read, 'easy prey')
 - always buying me wonderful clothing, jewelry, but different than my style - I thought he wanted me to be sexy for him but really was to keep me looking good so he looked good (he gets botox for example - hyper focused on his appearance)
And Seans notes are in line almost 100% 
 - few long term relationships w/women - his version of long term is 2 years before me (8 years)
 - his closest female relationship is with this mother - tells her over the phone 'love you' - rarely said that me, always made me wonder
 - obsessed w/clothing, appearance - perfection
 
I have to admit as part of my healing journey, I've signed up for double list to read/learn/expand my mind - get out from underneath. my rock.  Shocking really some of it.  But this is where he went to find his guys. Craigslist at the time.  

I now wonder about his male friends.  I'm contemplating asking a wife of his best friend for coffee.  A woman to woman conversation about things before I came into the picture and also to let her know she might want to keep a check on her guy - unless of course, she's open to that in her relationship w/her husband.

What ai thought was a joyous thing growing up in the country, simple life, no really family drama to speak of, has now turned out to be somewhat of a negative in dealing w/life, being aware, and even acceptance. It's very hard to accept this scenario that I'm in - surreal to me that someone could be so deceiving and untrue and that I'm dumb enough to look the other way when red flags were flying all thru the air - Andy Warhol Marilyn Monroe paintings, the list goes on and on and on. Admittedly, like texasjulia, what I loved about him was that he was different and interesting and not an average guy caring only about sports, etc.  I loved the parts of him that were now I see gay.......how twisted is my brain?!?

Thank you all for sharing your stories....it helps w/this journey!

In response to Blindone: 

"I now wonder about his male friends.  I'm contemplating asking a wife of his best friend for coffee.  A woman to woman conversation about things before I came into the picture and also to let her know she might want to keep a check on her guy - unless of course, she's open to that in her relationship w/her husband." 

If he's 50+, men of that generation often hook up with other closeted married men. It's just what their generation did...and perhaps continue to do. Although I'd advise against contacting the other wife my friend. Please contact people who will support you - like supportive therapists, family, and friends - and avoid people who will only bring you down while also complicating your life. As I've written in past posts, I never recommend getting into the pool with a husband who is drowning emotionally and I reckon the same applies to people like this other (potentially gay/straight) couple. While I completely understand a straight wife's need to have definitive proof of her closeted husband's homosexuality, often when the husband refuses to admit he's gay, please don't let playing detective distract you from the most important people in your life: you and your children. I can't see that meeting with and confiding in this other wife will in any way help you detach, separate, and divorce from your toxic husband. And there is a very real possiblity that your husband, his friend, the friend's wife will all simply turn against you. I hope that helps my friend and please keep sharing. Be well!

Last edited by Sean (December 12, 2020 11:40 am)

I have to admit as part of my healing journey, I've signed up for double list to read/learn/expand my mind - get out from underneath. my rock.  Shocking really some of it.  But this is where he went to find his guys. Craigslist at the time.  

OK - I am an idiot - what does signing up for double list mean?    Nieve farm girl from small town  .  FYI - I remember my ex telling me about Craigslist EARLY on.  I had never heard of it!  Makes me wonder....  texasjulia

 

Thank you for posting TexasJulia (TJ) and Lorelei. In response to TJ's post: 

1. Thanks for responding Sean. It means so much! THIS response REALLY hit home.  We had next door neighbors move in.  At the time, I was in a high risk pregancy and we could not have sex.  The wife confided to me that her husband didn't want to have sex with her anymore.  My ex and her husband became thick as thieves. 

Gay lovers most likely. 

2. We all did everything together all of the time.  After I delivered our daughter, and healed from the c-section - I found I was in the same boat as my girlfriend - there was no interest in sex. 

This sounds familiar. As a gay man with zero attraction to women, I found that once I'd had sex with a man I could no longer have "pretend" sex with my wife. Whether your closeted husband identifies as gay or bisexual, the timeline appears to be the same for these men. While dating, boyfriends/fiancés show little interest in sex, there isn't any sex on the wedding night, sex becomes infrequent in his 30s, and eventually stops in his 40s. The common theme among gay-in-denial husbands appears to be little to no interest in straight sex throughout the relationship. 

3. They ended up divorcing and he died a year ago from alcholism.  It was discovered in his emails (post mortum) that his last girlfriend had walked in on him having sex with another man. When I received the news, my suspicions were confirmed. 

All very "Brokeback Mountain." 

In response to Lorelei's post: 

1. I’m new to this site and I just recently found out my 58 year old husband has been getting oral sex from men his entire life.

I'm sorry you're here my friend. Please visit this page Straight Spouse Network Open Forum » First Aid Kit: How to survive finding out your partner is LGBT (boardhost.com) to ensure you're getting the help you need. With regards to what you've posted, your husband is lying of course. Most gay-in-denial husbands claim to be only on the receiving end of oral sex. Most only admit to having anal sex when confronted with overwhelming proof of the same. In the closeted husband's mind, receiving oral somehow makes him "less gay" which is of course complete bullsh*t.  

2. He claims he’s given oral twice in his 20’s but didn’t like it.

Again, lying. It's just too specific a lie to be true but you already knew that. While I've never met your husband and don't have any mental health training, I have a doctorate in "closeted husband evasions." So get ready for your husband to claim he was molested, raped, or abused...."back in college." All lies of course.  

3. He’s been finding men on Craigslist and these bookstores that he claims are ok with only blowing him but getting nothing in return.

This is called minimization. If he's on Craigslist and going to the backrooms of adult bookstores, I reckon your husband is an active (and likely enthusiastic) participant in these encounters. I'd also check his phone for hook up apps like Grindr, Scruff or Hornet. Yes it's true that some men go to gay spaces like saunas and video booths to be "serviced" or "worshipped" as we gay men say. These terms mean a man just shows up to receive a blowjob or "servicing" from another gay man. One myth I've tried to debunk via my posts is this idea that the gay community is one constant Roman orgy. Nothing could be further from the truth. It takes a lot of time and effort to hook up in the gay community, particularly when you're closeted, middle-aged, losing your hair, and you have an average-sized penis. So YES if/when some Brad Pitt-lookalike with a massive member shows up at the local peep show, gay men will indeed be falling all over themselves to give him oral sex. However, when you're a closeted husband with a dad-bod and wrinkles, you're more likely the one giving rather than receiving. Hope that's not too graphic. 

4. Just before I found out all of this he posted his own ad on Craigslist looking for mutual fun and said he’s now curious about anal sex.

If he's been going to peep shows, adult bookstores, and posting to Craigslist ("CL") for years, that's more than curiosity. As I've written here before, "curious" is trying something spicy down at the local Chinese restaurant, not gorging on the "all d*ck" menu for years. Moreover, there is nothing easy nor instantaneous about sites like CL. It takes A LOT of time to create a profile, write an add, post photos, and (most importantly) respond to messages. For me personally, it probably took me 3-4 hours of online time, messaging, and exchanging photos to set up just one hook up. So your husband is likely spending a lot of time online to arrange for hook ups and in all likelihood has already had anal sex...probably for years. If you've found jockstraps, dildos, butt plugs, poppers, and lube, this would all suggest he's a gay bottom or on the receiving end of anal sex.  

5. He has never talked to me about trying any of these things and I’m capable of doing all of these things.

True but if you're no longer having sex, that's because your husband is likely attracted to men...not women. He wants to do these things with other men...not a woman. 

6. He says he’s not attracted to men at all and he wants us to stay together.

Clearly he's attracted to men if he's spending endless hours on Craigslist (CL) and going to adult bookstores. So it sounds like he's sexually gay and yet emotionally straight. This means he's from a generation that considers gay sex disgusting and evil. So he's having sex with men but still wants to maintain a heterosexual identity by remaining married to you.  

7. He claims it will never happen again and if he does get the urge he will talk to me first.

More lies. He'll abstain for a few weeks or months but will then be back on CL and/or haunting the adult bookstore. If you really want to know where he's spending his time, install a tracker on his cellphone, computer, or put a tracer in his car. You'll likely see that he's spending hours online, at a nearby adult bookstore, or at the gay sauna. 

8. What’s your insight on what I’ve said? Thank you so much for taking the time to read and answer questions for us all.

Please consult this website's first aid kit: Straight Spouse Network Open Forum » First Aid Kit: How to survive finding out your partner is LGBT (boardhost.com). I'd recommend you start individual counselling, preferably with a therapist/counsellor with expertise in sex therapy and/or LGBTQ issues. Like most straight spouses, you'll naturally spend your first few months or perhaps the first year totally focused on fixing your husband to somehow save your marriage. If you wish to cut through all of the "is he gay" bullsh*t, just lie and tell your husband you're ok with an open marriage. He'll likely book a gay date in under 48 hours because, let's admit it, he's probably being doing it for years. Most women who post here already have broken marriages before they discover "the gay thing." But please also focus all that love, energy, and attention on yourself because you deserve it. 

Please post again if I haven't answered your questions. 

Last edited by Sean (December 22, 2020 11:00 am)