Things changed when he was diagnosed with cancer and faced his own mortality. He recovered but was deciding how he wanted to live the rest of his life. After his father died he began moving for the exit. I have to go now but thanks for sharing. We are divorced and my life is good.

Thank you for posting Texasjulia, Abby, and OOHC. I'm not sure I have a lot to add to what you've written Texasjulia (or "TJ"), although I would like to comment on some common traits of gay men born in the 60s and 70s (currently in their 50s and 60s). Please note, however, that I'm just sharing my opinions as I don't have any mental health training. 

1. My ex is 58.  We were together for 23 years (married 18 years). I read somewhere in your thread (either you or someone else) wrote how being gay from that generation is extremely uncomfortable because of the social norms during their life.  Also - my ex is in an industry where it is not OK to be gay (an unspoken rule).

As I've shared in previous posts, different generations of gay men had/have different coping mechanisms. Given what I've read here and based on my own personal friendships and experience, the tipping point appears to be sometime around 1969-1970...symbolically around the Stonewall riots in NYC. For reference, I'm writing this in December 2020. Most of the gay men I've met who are 50+, meaning born before 1970, followed this path: 

- Sensitive and impeccably groomed mama's boys
- Few (or no) girlfriends
- Married and had children (because this was expected of them)
- Little interest in straight sex and may have avoided pre-marital sex because of (fake) religious beliefs
- Husband-like friendships with other gay men, often married 

As TJ shared: 

3) I have found out recently he never really had girlfriends in High School nor College, nor in between (we met when he was 33 (I was 23).  I thought that was odd (he was so good looking), and remember thinking at first...is he gay?  But then I thought...quit being such a small town girl...this guy is WORLDY.

I found this interesting....

4) He has an openly gay younger brother (whom he loathes).

This is actually quite common among older closeted men. In some cases, mature closeted men hide their own sexuality by being almost violently anti-gay. The classic case is the 50+ macho military man who acts like an anti-gay bigot to hide his homosexuality.  So I'm not surprised your closeted ex-husband hates his brother...for being everything he isn't. 

7) Very Soon Things Changed.  The first thing that changed was No More French Kissing.  "His tongue was too short."  That also meant "No Muff Diving" for me (same excuse). I actually don't think he ever did that to me...although I tried to get him to!  Again...Sigh...Nieve...Soft-Hearted.  When someone lives a lie...they are incredibly smooth and calculating. 8. Sex Was Mechanical. 9. He Never Looked Me In The Eyes During Sex.  EVER.  As in 23 years ever. Early in the relationship this bothered me.  I mentioned it to my older cousin, and she said, "Oh men are like that in the beginning."  Well, the beginning never evolved.  But I was GIDDY in love and that just became our normal.

This mirrors my own experience as a gay man married to a woman. Sex was always very prim, no passion, and the frequency diminished as I got older. I also hated kissing. It's not uncommon for the closeted husband to get creative with his excuses or make ridiculous rules to avoid sex. My own ability to 'pretend' to be straight in the bedroom fell off once I'd discovered gay porn. And once I'd had sex with a man, I could no longer have sex with my (then) wife. I reckon it was a mix of not wanting to put her at risk for STIs and also an inability to continue pretending. For any straight wives reading this, for the gay male (not bisexual male mind you), sex with a woman is akin to being forced to have sex with a sister or female cousin. 

12. He had a benign brain tumor removed at 44...and that is when things REALLY changed.  My psychiatrist has told me, "I see this all of the time. It can unlock dormant DNA. Once you cut the brain, it's never the same."  That being said...now that I am out of the marriage...the tendencies were always there. (sidebar....words I NEVER thought I would say NOR type in my life story..."my psychiatrist." Did I mention I had a nervous breakdown due to all of this? If Jerry Springer calls one more time, I am blocking him.)

Fascinating stuff. 

15. He became CRUEL, OPENLY NARCESSISTIC, A RAGER & SEXUALLY ABUSIVE. He was MAD & DISGUSTED he had to have heterosexual sex. Clueless, I would get on my knees and beg him, "I just want my husband back."  It's funny what your subconscious knows....  He would rage on me in front of our 4-year-old daughter so frequently I began to lock the bathroom door at bathtime in hopes of avoiding it.  One time she asked me, "Mamma...why did you marry him."  #HEARTCRUSHING

I went through a similar angry phase. I reckon anger/abuse were my coping mechanisms for living a fake life.  

17. After being seperated for over 2 years, and divorced 1 year, he has YET to go on ONE date with a female.  But he does run around with other men who have not had sex with their wives in 10-15 years.  The wives (my friends) know their husbands are closeted gays, but they "love them."  

This is a very typical "New York" style gay/straight arrangement from the 60s and 70s. It's all very "Boys in the Band."  

18. I'm still GRIEVING!  It's the ultimate betrayal.  If he would have just told me! I would have been so sympathetic!  No one WANTS to be gay.  It's not an easy life.  I NEVER would have betrayed him.  EVER. EVER. EVER. 19. Him not telling me made our divorce incredibly bitter. It didn't have to be that way. It could have been so calm, and we could have avoided so much of the drama that happened and gone through the process as a team.  Instead....it was so INCREDIBLY bitter. When you lie about who you are....you lie about everything.

I think it's normal, healthy and a sign of healing to experience an angry phase. Most straight wives go through an angry phase and often stalk their ex-husbands online. It's also quite common for the mature closeted gay man to remarry a woman.  

Thank you for sharing TJ. For every straight spouse posting here, I reckon there are countless more following your journeys. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (December 8, 2020 10:13 am)

texasjulia, your story is eerily similar to mine.  I've been on here for a while (discovery in June), but your story caught me b/c of:
 - similar age difference (he's 11 years older)
 - grew up in PA, lived in NYC for 15, moved all over; worldly
 - sex/intimacy was robotic (no eye contact)
 - I grew up in a small town; naive as well; still realizing I live under a rock (read, 'easy prey')
 - always buying me wonderful clothing, jewelry, but different than my style - I thought he wanted me to be sexy for him but really was to keep me looking good so he looked good (he gets botox for example - hyper focused on his appearance)
And Seans notes are in line almost 100% 
 - few long term relationships w/women - his version of long term is 2 years before me (8 years)
 - his closest female relationship is with this mother - tells her over the phone 'love you' - rarely said that me, always made me wonder
 - obsessed w/clothing, appearance - perfection
 
I have to admit as part of my healing journey, I've signed up for double list to read/learn/expand my mind - get out from underneath. my rock.  Shocking really some of it.  But this is where he went to find his guys. Craigslist at the time.  

I now wonder about his male friends.  I'm contemplating asking a wife of his best friend for coffee.  A woman to woman conversation about things before I came into the picture and also to let her know she might want to keep a check on her guy - unless of course, she's open to that in her relationship w/her husband.

What ai thought was a joyous thing growing up in the country, simple life, no really family drama to speak of, has now turned out to be somewhat of a negative in dealing w/life, being aware, and even acceptance. It's very hard to accept this scenario that I'm in - surreal to me that someone could be so deceiving and untrue and that I'm dumb enough to look the other way when red flags were flying all thru the air - Andy Warhol Marilyn Monroe paintings, the list goes on and on and on. Admittedly, like texasjulia, what I loved about him was that he was different and interesting and not an average guy caring only about sports, etc.  I loved the parts of him that were now I see gay.......how twisted is my brain?!?

Thank you all for sharing your stories....it helps w/this journey!

In response to Blindone: 

"I now wonder about his male friends.  I'm contemplating asking a wife of his best friend for coffee.  A woman to woman conversation about things before I came into the picture and also to let her know she might want to keep a check on her guy - unless of course, she's open to that in her relationship w/her husband." 

If he's 50+, men of that generation often hook up with other closeted married men. It's just what their generation did...and perhaps continue to do. Although I'd advise against contacting the other wife my friend. Please contact people who will support you - like supportive therapists, family, and friends - and avoid people who will only bring you down while also complicating your life. As I've written in past posts, I never recommend getting into the pool with a husband who is drowning emotionally and I reckon the same applies to people like this other (potentially gay/straight) couple. While I completely understand a straight wife's need to have definitive proof of her closeted husband's homosexuality, often when the husband refuses to admit he's gay, please don't let playing detective distract you from the most important people in your life: you and your children. I can't see that meeting with and confiding in this other wife will in any way help you detach, separate, and divorce from your toxic husband. And there is a very real possiblity that your husband, his friend, the friend's wife will all simply turn against you. I hope that helps my friend and please keep sharing. Be well!

Last edited by Sean (December 12, 2020 11:40 am)

I have to admit as part of my healing journey, I've signed up for double list to read/learn/expand my mind - get out from underneath. my rock.  Shocking really some of it.  But this is where he went to find his guys. Craigslist at the time.  

OK - I am an idiot - what does signing up for double list mean?    Nieve farm girl from small town  .  FYI - I remember my ex telling me about Craigslist EARLY on.  I had never heard of it!  Makes me wonder....  texasjulia