OurPath Open Forum
This forum is for discussion of issues related to Mixed Orientation relationships only, that is when one partner is heterosexual (straight) and one is Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender or Questioning.
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- TangledOil
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Re: definition of success?
I have been in a MOM for over 28 years. I’ve known on some level that his sexuality wasn’t typically straight for nearly our entire relationship. I questioned his interests, that he didn’t try to hide, probably nearly annually for our entire relationship. Initially I thought his interests were purely academic, like mine. I’m open minded and have a masters degree in marriage and family therapy. He came out to me as bisexual in January of this year. The first six months were terribly rough. We talked about divorce in February and talked about an open marriage shortly thereafter. He said he wouldn’t do anything without my knowledge and permission. I believed him and I still believe him. He was sexually abused by a male twice his age when he was in 2nd grade. This continued for some time because the abuser was a neighbor and had easy access. I think this really confused my husband and we believe this contributed to his interest in gay encounters. He has not had any sexual contact whatsoever with men in over 31 years. We are planning to stay together and we have a wonderful relationship 99.9% of the time. He told me many details. Details I sometimes wish I hadn’t heard and that occasionally cause me anxiety, but it’s decreasing significantly over time. Maybe it’s easier because my husband isn’t gay... we’ve always had a great sex life and connection. I don’t often post here in SSN because I find the negativity overwhelming. It may work for some, but it isn’t good for me. We are continuing in our monogamous marriage.
Last edited by TangledOil (September 29, 2020 11:12 am)
- SusanneH
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Re: definition of success?
I’ve been watching this thread and wanting to answer it, however last time I entered into this conversation, I was told where to go, so I hesitated. But, this is much ado about...........
First, if you don’t like the MOM’s section, don’t read it. Simple as that.
Also, this entire forum is about couples either trying to make their marriages work or finding they can’t and seeing how to make their lives work separately. So, not all the posts about frying to make a MOM work have to be, or can be posted in the MOM’s section. They just can’t be. If someone, for instance, on this thread, wanted to talk about their MOM, it was totally appropriate.
A few weeks ago, I was on the Support section, and there was a similar discussion about the MOM section. (Someone had mistakenly told Dutchman he could only post in the MOM section. He’s a straight spouse and can post anywhere), and the same sentiments got started, as well as people getting on to others telling them how to post. The poor guy that started the thread was in the beginnings of disclosure and he got totally overridden by this.
So, the discussion got started that someone in an “obviously-successful MOM” ...should have no reason to post anywhere but the MOM section. I was dumbfounded by this, so I asked, and was told:
”I think your advice/comments/posts about making a MOM successful should stay on the MOM board”.......
Well, in general discussion and support people are frequently asking how to make their marriages work. If I were new and asked (which was one of my main things I wanted to know near the beginning) and wasn’t in the MOM section and someone told me they couldn’t answer me because I had to be in the MOM section, then it would be pitiful. The topic of making marriages work or not is in almost all the sections.
Also, I’ve been there in the “just found out”, and can be of help to new people, as well as other sections. I find things I can relate to in most of the sections and post when I can either offer my experience or ask questions.
This has just gotten way out of hand and shouldn’t be such a big issue in my opinion. I wasn’t here when the MOM section started, but I’ve seen some of the comments and I think it’s a good idea to have it. For those of us trying to make our marriages work, it’s very helpful. I read & post in the other sections, too, whenever it is something I know about or want to know about.
Let’s just cool it and get along, okay? We’re all trying to make our lives work and should be helping one another, not cutting each other down.
thanks
Last edited by SusanneH (September 28, 2020 5:00 pm)
- Whirligig
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Re: definition of success?
Personally I'd appreciate not being preached at regarding the glories of being in a MOM or told how to post, thanks. I reserve the right to respectfully disagree and don't care for tone policing. You can post where you like but you can expect pushback if some of us disagree with you.
- Whirligig
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Re: definition of success?
I'd agree MJ. I think the other issue is that for the most part, those of us who have had abusive experiences with this 'are' staying off the MOM board but that the MOM board bleeds over with its perspective of 'it can work' and it's like rubbing salt in the wound for the people where it didn't. Or in the worst case where there was abuse involved. Our perspectives are in opposition. I don't think it's surprising that there is friction and sometimes anger involved. People who stay feel judged, and people who don't do too. I don't think it's fair to those who stay out of the MOM section, though, to be expected to stifle our viewpoint in the general section too.
- OutofHisCloset
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Re: definition of success?
Whirligig,
You have made a very good argument for why those who preach "it can work" should stick to the MOM section.
When the MOM section was established, the rules for posting there were made clear: if you aren't committed to making it work, don't post here.
I don't post there, because for me marriage between two people who don't have the same sexuality is an accommodation too far, and I see such a relationship not as a marriage but some other form of partnership under the guise of a marriage contract I believe was canceled when the non-straight spouse declared or acted on his or her homosexuality or self-declared gender identity. Furthermore, from my own experience I know that it's possible to talk oneself into accommodations that although motivated by love and hope will later prove to have caused deep trauma, so I think there's a lot of the "talking oneself into staying" when what's needed is to "talk oneself out of staying" and "talk oneself into leaving."
We're motivated to want to stay by family structure or family pressures or sunk costs or finances or...or...or. Many of us have been abused, or gaslighted into staying for far too long, and have internalized that abuse to the point that we told ourselves it was our job to make it work no matter what the actions of our spouses. Many of us have been thereby traumatized, with real consequences for our physical and mental health, and to our self-respect and self-esteem.
I personally would appreciate it if those on the MOM could appreciate that, and show the same courtesy and restraint to the rest of us, and, when they wish to promote their viewpoint or extol their success, simply tell posters who come to the "general" and "support" or "is s/he gay?" sections that the informaion and perspective to be found in the MOM section might be of value to them. When adherents of the success story don't so constrain themselves, but insist on proselytizing on those other sections, I'm not ceding the ground, but speaking my mind.
Last edited by OutofHisCloset (September 29, 2020 8:13 am)
- Dutchman
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Re: definition of success?
MJM wrote:
These issues come up from time-to-time. It feels like a tug of war.
My confusion lies with the Discussion & Support boards. I thought these were for straight people struggling
with a non-straight partner they had or have in their lives AND are not in a committed, mutually agreed upon MOM.
I generaly agree with the way you describe it, but it's sometimes not that clear. Especially when someone just found out to be in a MOM and comes looking for advice. If you are confused already, how much more the new visitor could be. Changes are they don't even know what the acronym "MOM" stands for. Are they committed to a MOM that's mutually agreed on? Well... that may just be the question they want to find the answer to.
The "camp A or camp B" line of thinking is not helpfull to guide people to the best possible option for them. Considering the opinion of some that "the only good MOM is a dead MOM", makes it problematic to create an objective alternative. And although I certainly do understand that there is much hurt and trauma experienced by many here, it's not helpful to load that weight on everyone coming to the support section looking for guidance.
In my opinion it would be in the best interest of a new person seeking advice, that others exercise some restraint before assuming it matches their own experience. These personal experiences are often very intense and can have a lot of impact. When it's justified then it's useful to be that clear and intense, but it should not used be like a shotgun on anything that moves.
Equally so, the MOM section is not intended to just have people trying and clinging to a relation, just for the sake of keeping a marriage going.
That should never be a reason for a MOM. Even staying in a MOM for financial reasons or some other practical reasons, although being one's choice, makes the "successful MOM" section not really the place to be. The general support section is most likely better suited for those cases.
Also if the straight spouse is (or threatens to become) a victim, or is seemingly being abused by the non-straight, he or she should be pointed out that a MOM is not the way to go.
That's what I would say, but I'm quite sure that everyone in, or striving for, successful MOM knows very well it has to come from both sides.
- lily
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Re: definition of success?
well Dutchman, while you're busy figuring out how the giving of advice should be done don't forget to factor in that not all Mixed Orientation Marriages involve a straight spouse - sometimes it's two bisexuals.
- •
Thread Starter- phoenix
- Administrator
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Re: definition of success?
These issues come up from time-to-time. It feels like a tug of war.
My confusion lies with the Discussion & Support boards. I thought these were for straight people struggling
with a non-straight partner they had or have in their lives AND are not in a committed, mutually agreed upon MOM.
The definition of those two boards are open to interpretation:
1) General Discussion
General topics related to straight spouse or LGBT issues
2) Support
Post here to request or give support
Admins, clarification may be very helpful here. Thanks!
Good question MJ. I haven't seen this question phrased in the way you put it.
We didn't really classify the section in the way you say. The existence of the MOM forum doesn't mean the other forums have an opposite or different audience. We first created the entire forum, then later the MOM section came about, but we didn't redraw the guidelines of the other forums. We only carved out a new area to address a specific type of support need.
To be more specific.. Just because we created an area for people committed to MOM's doesn't mean the other areas are only for people who are not committed.
-Formerly "Lostdad" - I now embrace the username "phoenix" because my former life ended in flames, but my new life will be spectacular.
- phoenix
- Administrator
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Re: definition of success?
Hi Dutchman,
This whole site belongs to the Admins; it neither belongs to me nor you. To repeat, I wanted them to clarify what belongs in the General Discussion board and the Support Board. Thanks!
To all:
This is a hot-button issue. I kindly ask that people refrain from posting on this thread until we hear from the Admins. We all need support for our difficult journeys.
Arguing this or that hurts feelings. It’s not supportive. It doesn’t appear to be kind. Rules for proper Netiquette used to be posted years ago in online forums as many remember. Here’s a refresher. Please read it when you get a chance.
Thanks reading & for getting this far!
Another great post! Thank you! I love the rules of etiquette... I should put them in a sticky post somewhere.
I would say that the forum really belongs to all of the people who post and read here. It's a community effort meant to offer love and support to those who are hurting and in need. I don't consider myself an owner or leader of anything, but rather a servant of the whole group. I just want to help keep things organized and on track so we can be the best at supporting people who need us. Believe it or not, this forum has saved lives.. for real.. prevented suicide. That's a credit to all of you.
I know we are all very passionate about these topics, so we can get a little caught up in debates. These issues do matter, but at the core of it, we are all here to receive and give back support and compassion.
To restate the main issue of this thread.. The Making MOM's work section came about because we do have a group of people who want to make their marriage work and those people struggle with the majority of advice being that they should give it up and leave. That advice is always given genuinely because most of us find that a MOM was not in our best interest. Those of us who say it's a bad idea are not doing it to hurt them or to intentionally ruin their lives.. it's our honest opinion based on the path we have traveled. But we have to remember that everyone has a different situation or set of variable in their life. For those people, the best support we can give them is encouragement and ideas and strategies to help them try to make their marriage work. If we give them only negativity and say it can't work they will not stick around this forum and we will have failed to support them.
The existence of that section should not be a threat or negative for anyone on this forum. It's just a specialized area to offer a little different type of help to people in different situations.
Remember we are not a normal online forum. We aren't here to discuss sporting events or hobbies or politics. We aren't here for entertainment or specialized interests. We are here to give and receive compassionate and loving support at the lowest and most difficult point in our lives. We are a lifeline to help people through a situation that nobody else in the world truly understands.
Let's just be kind and compassionate and love one another. Let's not argue over technicalities when we could be spending our time lifting each other up as we continue to struggle through such horrible times in our lives.
-Formerly "Lostdad" - I now embrace the username "phoenix" because my former life ended in flames, but my new life will be spectacular.
- Whirligig
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Re: definition of success?
Are you aware of any statistical data that could be shared as well, Phoenix? I know that doesn't tell the whole story for people but I would have really liked some hard data when I first got here. People can do what they like with that kind of thing of course, but quite frankly I think it could offer a more neutral source of information. Everything we post is subjective to our own situations. I think people who have left, are thinking about leaving, are thinking about staying, or even thinking about dating someone who has been honest about their sexuality might find a resource like that helpful to make informed decisions. There's a dearth of information like that.
Last edited by Whirligig (September 30, 2020 7:34 pm)