BlueBear - I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head re why a GIDX would do something like marry and have children with a straight person.  I think that what you have described was very much the situation with my husband and me.  I've always thought that he wasn't just gay, but had a personality disorder on top of it.  I have no problem with gay (not for me to be married to, but in general), but I do have a problem with fraud, and I believe in my situation it was fraud and he's just never had much of a conscience about it.  He was also very interested in acting.  I couldn't have said what you have said better.  Yes, they had other options like staying single, in the closet, having "quiet" private relationships as single people, or moving to an accepting location.  My GIDX wanted to look "normal" and he didn't care what it cost anybody else.

self esteem is not based in how you feel about yourself so much as how others do.

When a woman goes into menopause it changes things.  How do men know?  from one moment to the next, you notice the drop in attention when you walk down the street - it must be a subconscious reckoning going on.  It's like I completely disappeared, women will say.  A lesbian in denial I know said she welcomed it it was like she was off the hook.  But for me, I missed the warmth of the attention.  We all take a dip in self esteem.  I'm going to guess that men experience a similar dip when their chemistry reduces in testosterone.

I have this innate sense of responsibility, towards myself and others - I want people to be happy.  It was largely a subconscious reckoning but as a young woman I knew I did not want to fan a flame in the breast of a man I was not interested in, it would not be fair to him.  And I did not want to get pregnant until it was with the right man.  I think this is normal for many of us.  

For me, the idea of competing over men and babies is right off base.  Those subconscious reckonings - for me they are all about love and happiness, not self esteem points.  They are all about finding the right man.  And supporting that all round, not just for me.  

I have a lot to be sad about.

There's an innate sense of responsibility over making babies isn't there.  How could that ever be a source of competition, like a football to fight over.

It's a bit hard for me to put myself into the mind of a lesbian.  but it's different isn't it.  Same sex attraction must put all sorts of stresses on that innate subconscious reckoning.

 There's a type of marrying lesbian though, which seems to me to be quite common - they want the best man on the paddock not because they match but because they're competing for him.  No sizzling attraction melting their insides and reducing their ability to speak to a squeak, a sizzling performance, all senses honed to lead him on instead.  And when he is hooked they wear him on their arm like a Gucci handbag they picked up in a sale and the self esteem points come from the admiration he receives from others.  Same for their children.

There seems to be a lot of envy involved for these women.  I think often straight women hide from their attack and they don't receive their support anyway because they'd rather be able to view them with contempt than envy.

It's not a fun-filled life-enhancing friendly competition.  How you navigate parenthood with one of these women, idk.  My heart goes out to all of you.

I think wising up to the behaviours helps enormously.  And taking as many deep breaths as it takes to stay in your sweet spot, quiet, in control of yourself and strong.

My personal perspective is children are resilient, they survive their childhood and I don't care how many mistakes you make, with the love they get from their one solid parent, they will thrive.




 

Last edited by lily (March 30, 2023 6:03 pm)

Blue Bear wrote:

I'm convinced that in-denial people who perpetrate this type of hideous fraud have a fundamental personality disorder, usually narcissism with a sprinkling of sociopathy.  At many levels, they are fundamentally uncomfortable with themselves because of family, religious or societal homophobic views.  They are fundamentally uncomfortable with themselves, and they try to fake a heteronormative life.  They are actors on the stage of life, and we are their unwitting co-stars in a play that only they know they are staging.  And unfortunately, not even the best actor can prevent themselves from breaking character on that stage.

They have no excuse for doing this.  They could have chosen many other paths -- staying single, staying in the closet, moving somewhere with more accepting LGBT+ views.  Choosing to perpetrate this kind of fraud requires a massive psychological defect.
 

I'd say this is pretty accurate and well-said, except that fraud can be perpetrated under all of these three paths anyway, and usually is to get them into such a situation. They were singe once and deceptive to get into the relationship; they may live an an LGBTQ-friendly area and be deceptive; and staying in the closet impacts the deceived partner as well. The one path they could have taken to avoid this is to be honest with those in their lives and realize their orientation, thoughts and actions impact others. 

This forum focuses a lot on straight ex-spouses, but it should be recognized that deep deception starts far earlier. For me, the deception of the person who was the center of my life in childhood and young adulthood obliterated my positivity and hopefulness about marriage by my early 20s. I've never gotten over it. The trauma doesn't have to be linked to being married and having children. It's more fundamentally about massive psychological and emotional deception from the person/people who are foundational to a person's life at any age.

I agree that no one has an excuse for being so inhumane to the person/people they've chosen to place in the very center of their lives, and yet people (society) in general give them the excuse to do this. Why do people in general not care about their inhumanity through life? It doesn't give me a good view of people and what they conclude to be "okay". Yet how much does our society work to reduce domestic violence? Part of the problem is that society doesn't do what it can to say "no, this was wrong to other people and unacceptable, regardless of your "confusion" or fear; your fear is understandable, but your actions are violent". That people don't step up to draw this line allows them to perpetuate and enhance the environment for it.
 

Well said, MJM017.

It sure sounds like our ex's were alike: everyday parasites that feed on deceit. I wake up each day feeling lucky that I survived.

Future,

My kids were older and I'm a minority opinion here on this topic...

Kids just want to know how it will affect them.   At such a young age at yours I can't imagine  how you explain TGT to them or that their mommy decided to live apart.  I would go with whatever confuses them the least.  When they are older they will know and see.

My kids may never know how much their mother hurt me.  If they can't remember the screaming,  things getting thrown,  me sleeping in various rooms on my rollout mattress..sometimes hiding on their floor in fear..  if they forget ..good..I wish I could forget..

My kids are doing fine now.. My house remains a place of safety, solace and love.

Last edited by Rob (August 4, 2023 10:41 pm)