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August 22, 2021 12:56 pm  #21


Re: is She Gay - Will she ever comeout?

“These two lines determine exactly my position. Every time I am alone at night, sitting in my computer room and self satisfy, my self-esteem dies a bit more”.

A wonderful woman at work was very kind to me. We had been good friends and were about as close as you could be to someone in the work place these days. When I had my heart attack, she was everything that my own wife should have been to me. When I returned to work, I told her everything about what had been happening to me over the last thirteen years and how this had basically damaged me.  She reached out to touch me and I just freaked out, terrified of her touch. It was my conditioned response to her attempt at innocent intimacy. I have learned that physical contact is to be avoided at all costs. I instinctively apologise for any accidental physical contact I have with anybody these days. This is what I have become over the years of neglect and abuse Bandala. My own self-esteem has been reduced to the point were I effectively see myself as a monster, a freak and unworthy of affection. This is the price that I have paid to keep my family together. I started out like you my brother, feeling shame at what I was reduced to doing. This is no way to live, and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. You are still a young man and have a chance to change your stars. Don’t be me. My own star shone so brightly and so warmly, that I thought it would last forever. But now my star has become a black hole that even devours the light of others when it is offered. Change your stars Bandala, while you still can. 

4926 days…


And now here is my secret, a very simple secret. It is only with the heart that one can see clearly that which is essential is invisible to the eye.
 

August 22, 2021 2:53 pm  #22


Re: is She Gay - Will she ever comeout?

Reading this post of yours OG sent chills up my spine, it was like watching The Great Escape!

Name it and regain it.  "My own self-esteem has been reduced to the point where I effectively see myself as a monster, a freak and unworthy of attention."

That is exactly that.  We should be roaring like monsters at the assault on our self-esteem but we don't because we have been reduced.

Yes.  By the time I was in my 40's I felt like a monster who didn't deserve affection.  

OG that woman at work sounds really nice.  why not pay her a bit more attention.  If she likes you that much she could probably do with it.  

 

August 22, 2021 5:13 pm  #23


Re: is She Gay - Will she ever comeout?

Bandala33, please schedule an appointment with your doctor because with this stress - and your statement about your weight gain - you may very well be developing serious health issues.Your doctor can also also refer you to a therapist who can help you cope in a healthier way. If you love your children, love yourself.


Try Gardening. It'll keep you grounded.
 

August 23, 2021 10:37 am  #24


Re: is She Gay - Will she ever comeout?

My gay ex boyfriend will not ever come out. I think some people in town know he's gay and I was the last to know. He was born in 1944 and is well respected in the community so I have my doubts that he will ever admit it.

 

September 7, 2021 9:10 pm  #25


Re: is She Gay - Will she ever comeout?

Hi bandala33 -

I lived your life.

Same behavior across the board. Hating sex. Lights off. No touching. Sex was rare and for me. I was gross to want it. No participation in any way for her. No intimacy. Vague affection. After kids, she pushed me out of her life. Excitement with women. Passion for lesbian content. Calling and texting women all day, while I was in the next room dying inside.

There are two paths:

1) Snoop. Go hog wild. I did this and I wake up nearly every day with flashbacks of what I found. A decade of hidden loves and lies. I do not recommend this path unless you must.

2) Or you can acknowledge that "still not understanding her sexual orientation" after 12 years means something.

In couples counseling, after my wife's many affairs started to spill out, the therapist said that healthy relationships make us into the best version of ourselves. My gut instinct was laughter. I had to stifle this reaction, as marriage to this human had only brought me despair. Are you the best version of yourself?

Not knowing, is a symptom of an unhealthy relationship.

Dr. John Gottman discovered four negative behaviors, or “The Four Horsemen,” that spell disaster for any relationship. These are criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling.

"Not knowing" her orientation often means all four are present. You are trapped in all directions by attacks, with the death knell being stonewalling you into submission. And when you ask her to adapt to your needs she discusses how it could be worse for you in the future.

"Not knowing" is often a symptom of gaslighting as well.

I would recommend seeing a therapist to discuss this. I would recommend journaling to get your thoughts on paper, as I'd wager she is mentally abusing and gaslighting you often and this will solidify events as they unfold. And I would recommend you entertaining the idea of a future beyond these walls to acclimate to the possibilities. Just start to dream of a happy future. What would that be?

Recently I moved out from my cheating wife. I have a fresh home to decorate for my child and myself. I have found kind friends who support me more than my ex ever did. I have a new beau who is doing all she can to helping me reconnect with my heart and body, after decades of abuse. And holy crap – life so blindingly bright when we're on the right path for ourselves!

Sometimes they never come out. Even when you have all the evidence in the world. All you need is enough evidence that says "this relationship is not healthy for me" to move. You deserve happiness.

Last edited by Upside (September 9, 2021 9:09 pm)

 

September 8, 2021 2:08 pm  #26


Re: is She Gay - Will she ever comeout?

Ordinary guy wrote:


...
 She reached out to touch me and I just freaked out, terrified of her touch. It was my conditioned response to her attempt at innocent intimacy. I have learned that physical contact is to be avoided at all costs..

4926 days…

Ordinary Guy,

I noticed this lack of affection but only after my GX withdrew the very little she accepted or gave me.  I cried when a college friend rubbed my back..because my GX in the decades we were married never did ..always accepted my affection though.. so I thought she was straight.   It's probably the gayness but it also showed how narcisstic and selfish she was and how I accepted this treatment...some naive flaw of mine..wish I had not accepted such scraps of basic affection.    That said she was a master of doling out just enough to pass as straight.


"For we walk by faith, not by sight .."  2Corinthians 5:7
 

September 8, 2021 2:14 pm  #27


Re: is She Gay - Will she ever comeout?

My GX will never "come out". I think many have lived so long hiding it and appearing straight  they are comfortable with just continuing.

I think when I'm around though it makes her uncomfortable because the glaring truth is ever present..does she hold hands with her girlfriend or just appear as straight friends.. a real horrible way to live and not my problem.


"For we walk by faith, not by sight .."  2Corinthians 5:7
 

September 9, 2021 9:25 pm  #28


Re: is She Gay - Will she ever comeout?

Rob wrote:

Ordinary guy wrote:

...
 She reached out to touch me and I just freaked out, terrified of her touch. It was my conditioned response to her attempt at innocent intimacy. I have learned that physical contact is to be avoided at all costs..

4926 days…

Ordinary Guy,

I noticed this lack of affection but only after my GX withdrew the very little she accepted or gave me. I cried when a college friend rubbed my back..because my GX in the decades we were married never did ..always accepted my affection though.. so I thought she was straight. It's probably the gayness but it also showed how narcisstic and selfish she was and how I accepted this treatment...some naive flaw of mine..wish I had not accepted such scraps of basic affection. That said she was a master of doling out just enough to pass as straight.

The patterns in our shared stories are always striking.

My therapist recommended I go get a manicure at a salon because I was so terrified of any human touch. I was sure the problem was with me. It was shocking to me to realize that I could enjoy physical contact. If you feel nervous, exposure therapy of some kind may help.

And please don't be too hard on yourself, Rob. Many of these behaviors we learned from our pasts, often as children from our parents. In my case, my mom was a perpetual disaster, where I learned my value was to sacrifice all to rescue her. This behavior was implanted in me and ready for the harvest when I met my wife. The more I gave, the more I thought I was showing love, while the more she took advantage. 

My ex is committed to her lies. Yesterday she Facetimed our child covering herself in AR rainbows. She enjoys teasing me, while denying it in public. I know she will get married again to a man simply for money, while keeping this aspect of her life a secret. And the maddening thing is...that's not illegal or punishable in any way. Madness.

 

September 10, 2021 12:12 pm  #29


Re: is She Gay - Will she ever comeout?

My ex is committed to her lies. Yesterday she Facetimed our child covering herself in AR rainbows. She enjoys teasing me, while denying it in public. I know she will get married again to a man simply for money, while keeping this aspect of her life a secret. And the maddening thing is...that's not illegal or punishable in any way. Madness.

If I was in your position I would have no compunction whatsoever with letting the other guy know exactly what he was letting himself in for. She isn’t teasing you, she is rubbing your nose in it. Disgraceful behaviour on her part. I am glad that I do not have to deal with this sort of crap, I don’t know if I could accept it. Having a conscience as the driver for our moral compasses certainly has its drawbacks.  I can’t even imagine being that selfish that I would mock someone in pain. Whips my shit up into a froth!


And now here is my secret, a very simple secret. It is only with the heart that one can see clearly that which is essential is invisible to the eye.
 

September 10, 2021 9:56 pm  #30


Re: is She Gay - Will she ever comeout?

Upside wrote:

And please don't be too hard on yourself, Rob. Many of these behaviors we learned from our pasts, often as children from our parents. In my case, my mom was a perpetual disaster, where I learned my value was to sacrifice all to rescue her. This behavior was implanted in me and ready for the harvest when I met my wife. The more I gave, the more I thought I was showing love, while the more she took advantage. 

I have a mother with diagnosed borderline personality disorder.  The same here &
a succinct and accurate description, Upside.

Upside wrote:

My ex is committed to her lies. Yesterday she Facetimed our child covering herself in AR rainbows. She enjoys teasing me.

My ex offered to take me to a great restaurant. He told me the street and neighborhood. We kept walking down the same street but past the neighborhood into the gay porn/red light district. I ran away crying because porn & prostitution, gay or straight, is sickening to me.  He knew that.
 


No - It's not too late. It's not hopeless. Even there, there's something I can do. I just have to find the will. Ikiru (1952), film directed by Akira Kurosawa 
 

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