Blue769 and Victoriaiv, thank you so much for responding.  I burst into tears as i read each of your responses. It has been so hard to only have my mother to talk with about this- and probably not the healthiest since that is likely where my co-dependence came from.  And how do you tell your mother about your husband giving another man blowjobs? I just speak in vague terms.... She is trying to be supportive "I support whatever your decision is...." but it just isnt the same becuase she doesn't understand.  The only other people that know in this world are my brother, my sister, and my brother in law..... oh. And my 16 year old daughter who was NOT handling it well but is basically in denial about it now.  I am terrified to tell anyone and yet, i need to tell someone.  So thank you for taking the time to read and respond. 

Thank you for writing ImSoConfused (or "ISC"). Before responding to your latest post, please keep in mind that I am not a mental health professional. That said, I am happy to share my opinions based on your two very detailed posts, namely: 

- Yes your husband is gay.
- Your husband is lying - and is also in deep denial - about not only his sexuality, but appears oblivious about how this is affecting you and your family. 
- Your mental health counsellors are dead wrong: he is lying to himself and others about his sexuality.
- You are currently near the end of your "honeymoon" or "love bombing" stage of your gay/straight relationship. When the closeted husband truly fears separation/divorce, he acts like the best husband for a few months and then goes back to being dishonest, distant, and toxic. 

I discuss many of these issues in two recent podcast interviews with "Our Path": 

S4 Ep 3: A “Narcissist in Recovery” Gets Real - OurPath
S5 Ep 5: A Former Closeted Narcissist in Recovery Answers Your Questions - OurPath

Now in response to your post: 

1. I feel like someone just dumped a bowl of necklaces in my lap and they are all knotted and mixed together and I am supposed to untangle them all. I get one alllllmmmmooooost out and then hit a big snag and have to start over. My entire world is not what it was. I don’t know what parts of my past are true.  Hell, I don’t know if my present is true. I don’t know if he loved me. I don’t know if he was using me. I don’t know if he loves me now or if he is just trying to keep me around for a cover. I question everything- the fact that I was nice to gay people and had gay friends…. Did that make me a good target? Why didn’t I pay attention to red flags? I thought he was telling me the truth, but was I just so needy that I would take any scraps someone threw at me? What is wrong with me?

I'm so very sorry that you and your family are suffering my friend. You deserve better than a lying, cheating, manipulative, and closeted partner. Narcissists and co-dependents go together like fish and chips, burgers and fries, gin and tonic etc. Similarly, most straight spouses I have exchanged with over the years are kind, caring, and terribly self-sacrificing. I don't think there is anything wrong with you, however, I do believe that your marriage has become so toxic, for both you and your children, that it's now a question of survival.  

2. I have started reading this entire forum. Since discovering it 2 days ago, I have read 25 pages.... it is already helping me so much.

I'm glad. 

3. I have spent the last 4 months trying to make this work in my life- we have talked more, we have had sex more (why am I doing this!?!??), and he’s been more involved with us.

As I wrote above, this is called a "honeymoon" or "love bombing" phase. Following conflict, the closeted husband fears losing his "beard" so he acts like the best husband for a few months. If your marriage follows the normal pattern of a gay/straight relationship, and yes there is a distinct pattern/timeline to these marriages, frenetic post-conflict sex normally starts tapering off after about 3-4 months. The closeted husband can only pretend for so long before he falls back on old habits: cold; distant; blame shifting; and little to no sex. 

4. I thought I could do it- my therapists all said I could do it. But at the end of October I went to Europe with my mom, sister, and brother-in-law for 2 weeks and I didn't miss him. I just cried a lot about a life that doesn’t exist anymore- a future of traveling with him (he was supposed to go on this trip and my mom cancelled his ticket) that won’t happen. He made great efforts to text me (he would go all day not speaking to me or returning calls before discovery. I would leave town and he wouldn’t even reach out for days.  Meanwhile the man he was with- he texted with him all day every day- all night for 2.5 years… He texts me all the time now.), but I didn’t get excited about responding to the texts.

Closeted husbands are very focused on their appearance/reputation. Approval is often our drug. He was likely TERRIFIED that you would share all of his secrets - namely gay sex/cheating for years - with your family and thereby shatter his perfect "son-in-law" image. I'm going to assume that his texts were more frequent during your trip because he wanted your family to see him as loving, apologetic, and fully committed to the relationship. The texts have now likely calmed down now that you're home and back under his supervision but feel free to confirm.   

5. Then I came home on Thursday after being gone for 14 days. He did this big production of picking me up and swinging me around (never done that before!) "MAMAS HOME! I MISSED YOU!!!!!" But it felt forced.

Because he's playing a role. 

6. And when I didn’t come home cheerful, his snarky/cold behavior resurfaced here and there. 

This is textbook narcissism. 

7. After a day of it, I called him on it. He said I was withdrawn.

Blame shift: "you're the problem." What an *sshole. 

8. That I wasn’t my normal bubbly self. I told him I had spent the last 14 days worried he was cheating on me because it always happened when I left town and that I didn’t know if I could be that person anymore. She’s gone. I miss her. I liked her, but I don’t know if I will ever get her back.

Good for you for being honest. If I'm reading this correctly, you're standing up for yourself, sharing your emotions, and you're no longer buying into his bullsh*t. A loving husband would react as follows: "I'm sorry I lied, cheated, and hurt you. I'm going to do better. Please forgive me." 

9. He got upset and walked out of the room.  Went to take a nap. And then he left to go "run errands." Life360 off. I casually asked my daughter if she could text to see where he was and he was out birthday shopping for me.

Please don't put your daughter in the middle of this my friend. She's too young. The birthday feint is somewhat transparent and sounds like a manipulation...again he's trying to keep up appearances. Your husband likely headed to the closest adult superstore, complete with video booths my friend, for a quick BJ. Sorry if that's too blunt. 

10. But this is what I am reduced to! I never would have checked life360 before. I never would have wondered where he was when I was out of town. Never would have pictured him with someone else before. I never would have gone through his computer before, but i did yesterday. And i went through his phone last night - his search history (he is NOT technically savvy- can barely operate a smart phone) and I found only 1 instance of a site popping up- but it was not gay porn explicitly and another search for how to spice up a monotonous sex life. I did find searches for conferences to attend in the town where the man moved. Restaurants to he looked up. But then i remind myself that he cannot figure out how to schedule a flight or book a hotel.... he wasnt ever going to go there.... but then...what am i doing rationalizing????? the point is he looked it up and daydreamed about it! 

Please keep in mind that your husband cheated, lied about it, and his actions turned you into a detective. Moreover, he now appears to be planning an out-of-town meetup with his boyfriend. These are not the actions of a loving husband. 

11. Will I ever be happy again? I liked being a happy, bubbly person. I pride myself on being a kind and loving person. I’ve joked that when I meet people they start off with an A+ and it takes a LOT to get to a C. My husband meets people and they start with an F. I am afraid I am becoming that way too. The world is so much uglier than I thought it was.

I'm so sorry he's hurt you. You'll likely only find happiness once you separate and divorce from this toxic, broken, dishonest man. 

12. The next day when he was napping, I went upstairs and crawled in bed. Put my head on his shoulder and sobbed. He held me while I sobbed. We are so broken. There’s no way to put this back together and as awful as I have made this marriage sound, I have liked a lot of it. I have loved him and his companionship. It sounds stupid given all the bad things, and maybe it isn’t even true….maybe I just loved having someone. I asked him if he had thought about divorce. He said he had because I was so sad and he was the reason I was sad. If he removed himself from my life, maybe I could be happy. It sounds like blaming me...

Because he is blaming you. He's very good, I'll give him that. Your husband sounds like a very toxic, manipulative, and dishonest man. I'd suggest exploring narcissism with a qualified mental health professional. 

13. I know, (I am doing this for YOU) but I really truly do think he wants me to be happy and he knows he screwed this up. He wants to stay married, but he loves me enough to not if it is making me sad. That’s the thing. We are just 2 broken people who want to be happy. And I just don’t know that we can be happy together even though we both wish we could. It is taking me a long time, but I am coming to that. I don’t know if he is there.

What a great guy...NOT! He loves you so much he's ready to let you go. (Bullsh*t!) He's acting friend. He's doing the bare minimum to keep you in this one-sided, toxic, and completely disordered marriage. Based on your posts, you're the bread winner, you've raised the kids, you're doing everything. OF COURSE HE WANTS TO STAY WITH YOU. He sounds like a "where's my laundry?" petulant teenager.  

14. He hasn’t tried to have sex since I got home... 

Because the 3-4 month honeymoon phase is coming to and end my friend. He'll make you feel like it's your fault, but closeted men don't have sex with their wives because they're not interested in penis-in-vagina sex. He's the problem, not you. 

15. ...even knowing i am supposed to have a hysterectomy this week which will put me out of commission for 6+ weeks. I cried about that this morning. I don’t even want to have sex, but I am so sad that I’m not what he wants- i want someone that reaches for me in the middle of the night. He used to when we were dating.

Again, I'm sorry you've gone without real intimacy for the past 19 years my friend. It's time to accept who he is and, likely, always was: distant; manipulative; an absent father; a serial cheater; and a liar. It's time to let go of who he pretended to be 19 years ago: namely a straight man who was sexually interested in you. Your boyfriend/husband is capable of feigning a sexual interest for a short time to trap you into this toxic and highly dysfunctional marriage. He pretented to be a straight man before you said "yes" to marriage and then sex abruptly stopped. He pretended to be a straight husband when you threatened separation/divorce. I'm going to assume that he's demonstrated a sexual interest in you/women for about six (6) of the past 228 months you've been together. If my calculations are correct, he's acted straight for 2.6% of your relationship, meaning he's been gay or gay-in-denial for the remaining 97.4%.  

16. Is it becuase he is gay?

Yes! 

17. ..or is it me? I am sad that he won’t admit whatever it is to me. Why is that so important to me?  What does it change?? Why won’t he SAY IT??

It's not you. He likely can't say it because he's from a family, church, or generation where being gay was seen as negative or disordered. 

18. Why would all these therapists tell me to believe him when he says he isn’t gay? It is so confusing to me.

Therapists are trained to believe their patients. They are not trained to challenge their patients' honesty. So if your husband does not want to identify as gay, they have to believe him. Shifting blame onto you, his loyal and patient wife, is bullsh*t in my unprofessional opinion. As I shared during my recent podcast interviews with "Our Path", I urge straight spouses to focus on their husband's honesty over the course of the relationship. If your husband has demonstrated an incapacity to be honest about his sexuality and sex history, then it's time to focus on facts (namely his years-long affair with a man) rather than his evasions.

19. I am an absolute person. I need to UNDERSTAND things and I just cannot understand when the actions don’t match the words- especially when everyone is agreeing with him. It isnt that they are giving him a pass. They are all making him face the music of the fallout, but they all agree that words like “I am not gay. it was just fun!” and “I need to do something that wasn’t me!” are valid.

Horsesh*t. If you no longer have sex with your wife, have never demonstrated a sexual interest in your wife, and have sex with men, you're a gay as a rainbow. 

20. Is it even possible to not be gay and do these things with a man?

Of course not. Men who don't have sex with women and prefer to have sex with men are GAY. 

21. I mean, I guess gay men pretend and do things with women for years….You hear about spectrums of sexuality and how things arent always absolute….But then I think of how aggressive his texts were. How sneaky he was- he knew he was trying to cover something. How he would reference me- even looping me into the thing ("text my wife and tell her you are out of tonic and for me to bring some over") so he could go over or "Im without adult supervision.".  He says he did it just to keep the dialogue going. That he enjoyed the attention. and it could have been from a woman. 

Then why wasn't it with a woman? If he's not gay and not interested in sex with men, why spend years pursuing and having sex with a male neighbour? l know why: because he's attracted to men. 

22. That they didnt get together much- that he knew he would say no when he asked becuase the guys fiance was there so he just asked all the time, but he clearly didn’t say no all of the time.

This makes no sense. So in closeted gay-speak this is logical: "I only texted him begging for sex because I knew he'd say no, which is why I texted him so often begging for sex." Pure horsesh*t. Let's focus on the truth: he was texting your gay neighbour, begging for sex, and they had sex...for years.   

23. And…. These texts went on for a year and a half (they started 2.5 years ago as friendly "welcome to the neighborhood" texts, became waayy too familiar way too fast, and escalated a year later after the neighbor tried something.  But he wouldnt have tried something if he didnt feel like it would be welcomed, right??).  This is a long time.  It cant be just explained away? But the therapists say it can…..I JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND.

I reckon your husband is manipulating the therapists. Get ready for the final hail Mary: "I was molested" or "I have cancer." Your husband has sex with men because he's attracted to men.   

24. And then there is this- was it all a waste? I put our family at the top of my priority list. I knew I wasn’t loved the way I should be loved, but I said it was ok because we were together. Now it feels like all those years were for nothing. That my sacrifice didn’t matter. My love didnt matter. I didnt matter. 

I'm so sorry you're suffering my friend. 

25. Are my kids going to be ok? How do I navigate the part where my 16 year old knows EVERYTHING and the other kids know nothing. It isn’t fair for her to keep her father’s secret.

100% agree with you. 

26. And the other kids will think I lied to them when they do eventually find out- because there is no way she can keep that a secret forever. It would be so much easier if he would just come out. Admit to himself at the least. And the selfish part of me wants my kids to know what he did. That I tried to hold us together and that this isn’t my fault.

I reckon your kids already know everything...clearly your 16-year-old knows dad's secret. She's too young to carry this burden.  

27. That I did everything I could to make their lives amazing. I’ve been tapdancing in front of them hoping they wouldn’t notice he was never around. If I could be good enough, they wouldn’t notice his absence. If I showed up at enough things, they’d feel loved.  I catch myself saying to them, you know I would do ANYTHING for you, right? That you are my top priority?? Because I know what is coming- I am about to end their world.

I disagree. I prefer to see it as a mother demonstrating courage, the courage to end a toxic marriage and focus on herself and her happiness. Rather than ending their world, you might be giving them a newer, better world; a world in which their mother is truly free, happy, and no longer in an abusive relationship.  

28. When it first happened my daughter said, it’ll be ok mama. He wont live with us and our lives wont change that much. He isn’t here that much anyway.

She's very wise...perhaps beyond her years. If you don't want your children to fall into similar relationships/marriages, then stop forcing them to live in denial. It might be time to end this toxic, and perhaps even abusive, marriage. By staying you might be indirectly telling them that love is cheating, lies, and one-sided sacrifice. I often ask straight spouses, "What would you tell your daughter if her husband acted like this?" By staying I reckon you're giving your children the wrong definition of love.   

29. But now he is.  Now I finally have what I wanted- well, almost- a family that does things together and a father that is present in their lives and it will be all my fault for ripping it apart just when it came together. It is just so damn unfair.

Again, I disagree. You're not a bad person for calling "bullsh*t" on a toxic marriage. In fact, by choosing to separate/divorce, you're showing your children that there are consquences when dad lies, cheats and neglects his family. While I'd suggest discussing this with a qualified child psychologist, there may be more damage inflicted upon both you and your children if you continue raising them in such a toxic home environment.   

30. I am sorry I am posting so much.  I will try to stop monopolizing! I just need to SAY THINGS to SOMEONE. 

Post as much as you like my friend. That's what this forum is for. As Chump Lady often writes on her excellent website, it takes time to undo the years of mindf*ckery, something I often refer to as his "pink merry-go-round." So please keep coming back. You're among friends who understand your situation, from all sides. Be well!  

Last edited by Sean01 (November 11, 2022 7:18 am)

Actually, as I'm rereading what I wrote, is it possible that when he says he's thinking of divorce because he's the source of my unhappiness, if he could take himself out of the equation, I'd have a chance at happiness... Maybe that is him acknowledging in some way that this is part of him... Even if he can't really accept it. Maybe that IS him thinking about me and choosing me- the thing I'm begging for. He can't allow himself to say I'M GAY. But he can say, I want you to be happy.
This is the craziest party of all of this- how much you overthink EVERYTHING

Thank you, Sean. Also, in listening to the podcast, I want to say- I dont agree with the idea that you are doing this to feed a narcissistic desire.  I am actually well versed (unfortunately) in the ways of the narcissist. (So well versed, you would think I would be able to see its impact in my married life).  This is too tedious and too repetitive for you to get some high from that. You wouldnt keep doing it for 6+ years- you would go find something else more "on the stage" or visable to the world. I can tell you feel remorse for what you did to your wife and family.  I almost wonder if this is a penance you have given yourself and hope you arent beating yourself up too much. I want you to know how helpful this is. I know it doesn't excuse what you did in your own life, but I think a lot of us spouses would love to know that our partner had done even a tiny bit of the introspection that you show here. Your compassion and patience for us - especially given that we all seem to be operating out of some type of closeted-husband-playbook and should be able to read prior posts without having to ask so many questions- is so so appreciated.  It does not feel like someone using our pain for their own gain as a narcissist would do. Even in its bluntness, It feels like understanding, a stern friend who cares, and a hug. 

Hi Sean and all, I’ve been reading through this topic for a few days now and I’ve finally decided to share my story. Sorry it’s a long one and I hope I don’t waste your time because I’m very unsure and maybe I’m just paranoid.

I met my partner and father of my two children when we were 18 and 19. We are now 30 and 31 so we’ve been together a fair amount of years before I ever suspected that he could be gay. When we met literally a few days in he did tell me he thought he was gay when he was a child. His mum told him on the way to school one day that his dad would send him to a prostitute if he didn’t loose his virginity by the time he turned 16. His mother clearly agreed with this or she was so controlled by his father she had to agree. Either way, they were worried he might be gay and so pressured him to like girls. When my partner was 15 his dad introduced him to a girl which would be his first girlfriend and the girl he lost his virginity with. He had two more short relationships with girls before he met me. Again, it was through his dad we met. His dad joined the company I was working for at the time and told me all about his son and how great he was so I added him on Facebook and asked to meet up. I pursued him. We had our first date in the cinema and he took me home afterwards, no kiss goodbye just a hug. I thought he was charming to not go in for a kiss. Now I’m not exactly unattractive and I have lots of male attention when I’m out. We dated for a few months before he basically moved into my dads house with me. I lost my mum to alcoholism when I was 12 so I lived with my dad and younger brother. During our early months together my partner told me how his ex gf was more like a friend to him but he noticed she gave him lots of attention and so he just went with it and got in a relationship with her. It ended because she had to move back to Brazil. He told me how she seemed innocent but she liked anal and was quite dirty in the bedroom. I wondered why he would tell me this. He has always been quite highly sexed always initiated sex with me and says I don’t initiate enough. In the beginning I found nuts mags so I had no reason to believe he was gay. He told me he liked babestation and Rosie jones the page 3 girl. Apparently I look like her he said. Anyway, our relationship was never great. He always loved sex tho and I’ve seen here most GID never initiate sex with their wives so I am unsure. 6 years ago I got pregnant with our son and he was very worried and anxious. His hair starting thinning he has alopecia. More arguments, more making up. 3 years later our daughter was born. He treated me like shit when I was pregnant with our daughter. Once she was born he said he had PND. took one anti depressant and said he felt better. Now looking back I’ve realised he’s been depressed ever since ouR daughter was born. Blames it on not providing enough as a man.

Now to the main point of the story.
Around last October he got incredibly depressed and was always angry and hateful towards me. Sat me down one night and said he had ED and was going to order some Cialis. So he did. Now looking back I realise this is when the sex dried up. He was no longer initiating. But if he was on cialis he would’ve been horny right?  I didn’t think anymore of it. I thought our sex life was ok but that’s all I knew. I don’t have a high sex drive anyway so wasn’t too bothered.

Then in January, he out of the blue accused me of texting other men and cheating on him. Says he found a text on my phone but couldn’t find it when I asked him to show me. He also accused me of being a lesbian. Being more like a man the way I argued with him. Told me I don’t show him enough love of affection. Said he was going to kill himself and it’ll be my fault.

Fast forward to April we argued again over silly stuff, he  went to his mums. Came back a few days later and we had the best sex ever. I felt so in love he made me feel
So wanted for a couple of months and then I noticed him pulling away. On two occasions I saw him look over me to check I was sleeping, before going into th bathroom for a while with his phone. When I questioned him on this he denied it outright and accused me of being paranoid. Said he is constipated and takes awhile. Another occasion i noticed he had used baby oil while in th bathroom. I don’t know if this is relevant but I’m trying to remember details.

Anyway the great sex and loving attention from him soon dried up. A few weeks passed and he said he wanted to give up smoking and to do this he’s going to the sauna to sweat out the toxins. During all of this I had my suspicions he was having an affair whether virtual or not I didn’t know. So I starting digging. I found an Ashley Maddison account but I have no proof it’s him. The profile picture certainly looks like him even with a blurry filter. The profile is a straight man looking for a woman. At this point I had no reason to believe he’s gay but straight and looking for a discreet affair. I didn’t mention it to him. On the morning of sauna day, he got up for work and hour early while I was sleeping (to work out) and then went to work. Left work early to get to the sauna. Came home first packed bag had a shower. He seemed like a bag of nerves before he left. Anyway he went sauna, I made an Ashley Maddison account and message the account I’d found. “I know you’re cheating on me” I wrote.
When he got back from the sauna, he told me he had just been sexually assaulted by a man in the sauna. It happened like this although the story has changed a little over time. Suspicious.
Him and said man had a good “manly” chat. Seemed like a nice guy didn’t seem gay. Man offered him a massage and my partner agreed. Partner says in sauna all men go naked and he didn’t wanna look like a boy by keeping his trunks on. So he lied down on the massage bed naked. The man gave him a great massage but then proceeded to brush his dick a few times before moving near to his anus. My partner said he froze and couldn’t speak. After that he went for a swim. Then when he got home had a bath because he felt sick from th man’s hands being on him but didn’t wanna report him because they can’t do anything about it anyway. Pleaded with me not to tell anybody. Because they might think he’s gay. At this point I didn’t believe him because I thought he’d only made this story up because he knew I’d found his Ashley Maddison account. I thought he’d been with a prostitute and the sauna was a cover story. Before he got in the bath he took his bag upstairs (containing towel, trunks, sliders) was in the bathroom a while with the tap running then came downstairs and he said he wanted to throw away his trunks because he didn’t wanna be reminded of what happened at the sauna. While he was in the bath I check his trunks and they had semen in them. Just abit but it was definitely semen. I haven’t told him this bit.

Next day, I told him about the Ashley madison account. Swore he had no idea what I’m talking about. Left to go to his mums. Stayed there a few days. I thought I must have got it wrong and begged him back. He came home.

Few weeks later, I get up from my Sunday lay in, Walk into the toilet to catch him wanking to something on his phone. I wasn’t smart enough to demand to see what it was. At first he said nothing. Then he said a girl lifting her top. Then he asked “how do you know it weren’t a man?!” To then saying it was a girl on WhatsApp. Says he only does it when he’s feeling down. I was in the next room and he would prefer to wank?

He left me to go to his mums yet again. Came back a week later. Wanted to watch Jeffrey Dahmer. For those who don’t know, he’s a gay psychopath. Partner is never usually into these kind of films. Says it’s bad for his mental health. I’ve since touched on gay subjects and he got very defensive. “You think I’m gay. I’m not gay”

A few more points to mention:
He’s always been a dry kisser
Always initiated sex until the last year
Thought he was gay when he was a child
Always got on better with women
Dad is homophobic
Has narc tendencies
Has preferred anal at times with me but knows I don’t particularly like it
Says he felt weird after I was horny for 3 days and wanted him all the time
Keeps saying peoples environment can make them a certain way
Says he feels like there’s no going back with us
Been shaving pubic area
Wants to get fit
Grew a beard
“Hates” gays
He’s a gay magnet. Gays love him

Also since he came home he’s blamed me for not b img supportive enough and says there’s so much more to this but he doesnt trust me enough to tell me.

Thought please?