Sean - thank you so much for replying. Not sure if am doing this correctly but am replying to some of your comments below.

Wow. Please clarify: your husband had sex with your daughter and her [male] fiancé's friend? If that's true, I reckon he's combined cheating; incest; and gay sex. That's quite the combo. I can't imagine how much worse it gets but please feel free to post additional details. 

—sorry I wrote this in a confusing way! My STBGX was only with one person. The man he was with was supposed to be a good friend of my daughter and her fiancé. Such a good friend in fact that both he and his girlfriend were going to be in the wedding.  His girlfriend has decided to stick by him so my husbands actions have devastated friendships as well as every other aspect of my daughter’s life.


Ok. So a good follow-up question by the straight spouse would be: "If you find women attractive, why aren't we having sex?"

—That’s pretty much exactly what I said! I said ‘so the only person you didn’t want to sleep with was me’.  He of course skirted around the answer and tried the no sex drive thing again which I said wasn’t true because he had the drive to be with a man.  He also tried blaming his ED which has nothing to do with sex drive - obviously we still could have been intimate in other ways. He also avoided for decades getting help for the ED making a few lackluster attempts to keep me quiet. (As my therapist tells me if I was practicing good self care I would have left long ago. But she also tells me I can’t change the past.)


Gay men like me don't have sex with women because there isn't any sexual attraction. It has nothing to do with their appearance, age, libido etc. It's just a square-peg-round-hole type thing. Straight people don't have sex with the same sex for similar reasons. I'm saddened that this broken man has made you doubt yourself. That's not marriage.  

—When he stopped having sex with me I had gained a little weight (not much but I was really skinny most of my life) and I was trying to find a reason why what was a good sex life for years had gone away pretty suddenly. So when he said he wasn’t interested I asked if it was because I had gained weight and felt said YES! He let me believe this for a long time.  Can you imagine what that did to me?  It really scarred me. I actually got in the best shape of my life, would come home from work every night and after my daughter went to bed would shower, do my hair and makeup and put on lingerie. Nothing.  I finally came to the realization that it wasn’t about my appearance and nothing I did was going to make him take interest. It wasn’t until a while later he said it didn’t have anything to do with my appearance. I resigned myself to a life of celibacy again thinking it was best for my daughter. My STBGX had actually been a stay at home dad since she was 2. They were exceptionally close - she considered him her best friend (which is why his actions now have devastated her so badly). I truly never thought he would cheat. But looking back now, I think the rather sudden drop off in our sex life might have been the result of him being with a man. He denies this of course but I can’t think of anything else. It was like a light switch.

, I really don't see a positive outcome if you choose to remain with a cheating, mentally ill husband in a sexless and highly toxic marriage.

—Oh I completely agree. I left the house (it’s a common law state and  I couldn’t force him to leave when he refused to do so) that day when his cheating was exposed and he was still denying it - I knew he was lying. By the time my daughter, her fiancé and I got to their house at college an hour away, I had an email STBGX sent to the 3 of us admitting what he had done. I have been staying with friends since that day while planning for the dissolution and trying to sort out the finances (STBGX was handling them - I should say mishandling them- and they are a nightmare. But that’s a while other story.). Fortunately my employer has been letting me work remotely for now since I am a good distance from the office, but I need to get back there soon.  One thing I always made clear to my STBGX whom I had been with for 38 years (since I was 16) is that I would never tolerate cheating. In my opinion there is absolutely no acceptable reason for it. If you want to have sex with someone else, get out of the relationship you are in first. There are lots of reasons I know he stayed with me - financial support being one of them - even though he was clearly miserable. He obviously has serious mental illness issues beyond which we already knew to do such a terrible thing in such a reckless way. We (my daughter, her fiancé and I) keep saying ‘why couldn’t he have done this with a stranger?’


How is your daughter by the way?
Thank you for asking. My poor daughter who is such an amazing person is really struggling. She is truly the biggest victim in this. It has literally affected every aspect of her life. We were entertaining at my house her and her fiancé’s friends, and because of the distance between where they live at school everyone was spending the night (didn’t want anyone driving after drinking).
*So her close friends - many of whom were her housemates - were there and asleep while this took place. So it had affected her friends and her house (the cheating man’s girlfriend moved out).  *My daughter worked at the same place as the young mans girlfriend - the other girl ended up quitting but my daughter had such high anxiety over going there and risking seeing her that she had to quit (my daughter as I do struggles with mental illness and hers is characterized by very high anxiety).
*My daughter and the young mans girlfriend are both execs in the same sorority. My daughter loves her sorority role and has always taken great pleasure in it and now it is another source if anxiety. Initially she couldn’t even attend meetings because of the fear of seeing the other girl. Now there is always the question and anxiety over ‘do I attend this function because they might be there’. 
*My daughter had gotten engaged less than a month prior to the cheating. I have literally never seen her so happy in her entire life. My future son in law is a great guy and they were so happy. My daughter is working towards being an event planner with an ultimate goal of being a wedding planner. So this was to be such a wonderful time planning her own wedding!  Now the joy is gone. Every thought of the wedding now has a shadow over it because at this point she can’t even imagine having her dad being in attendance. As I said, she feels utterly betrayed my her best friend - a man she was sure would never ever hurt her.
*My lovely daughter says she is thankful that she was already engaged to her fiancé because if not after this she doesn’t think she would have ever trusted a man enough to be that close. After all if her dad could do this to her mom after all this time, how could anyone be trusted?  She said that her fiancé has now lost the woman she used to be because this has changed her forever.
*The ‘kids’ (they’ll always be my kids event though they are adults lol) both graduate in May. They are going through a semester that would have been extremely demanding on its own just trying to get through school and hold down jobs and all their other commitments. To add this on top of it is excruciating. They are just struggling day by day and as she says when she thinks maybe the next day she will feel better about it she doesn’t and it’s usually worse.
*She can’t stand the thought of seeing her dad at this time - had had just one face to face interaction with him - so she hasn’t been able to go home at all which was always kind of a sanctuary and an escape. Now we have to sell the house and she and I are both saddened over losing her childhood home especially without being able to have the ‘one last Christmas, one last party, etc’.
*We miss our dog! Our dog was always so excited when my daughter would come home. But the pup is a true daddy’s girl and we know the best place for her is with my STBGX.  But it’s so hard.
*My future son in law is going through all of this too and is hurting. And he and I are going through the same thing - the person we love more than anything in the world has been devastated and we can’t make it better. I can totally understand when he says he sees no future in which he wants STBGX to be around his future kids because he doesn’t trust or respect him.

So there is actually much more going on and it is so deep.

As of today here’s where we stand.

I will have the $ in January to pay the attorney to file the dissolution. Every attorney I talked to told me the same thing - because of the specifics and the laws of the state I am going to be paying a large portion of my income in spousal support.  It’s completely unfair. I make a decent salary but - as I see now- we were living paycheck to paycheck with no savings, etc and still not meeting all the bills. Ran the numbers this week and I will be living on about 40% of my pay after taxes, spousal support, etc, but will have more than 40% of expenses. So this will be interesting.

I will be staying with friends until I get my own place. I can’t stand the idea of being in the house with him.

My daughter and I are both doing weekly therapy. My future son in law is in therapy as well. We are trying to learn how to cope, overcome, move forward, find some joy, etc.

The 3 of us - daughter, fiancé and I- are close and trying as best we can to support and love each other and get each other through this. I have a few friends who have been extremely supportive and I lean on them. Unfortunately none of them have the $ for the attorney or would have already filed - lol.

After some heated conversations and text exchanges with STBGX I communicate with him only when and about what is necessary. He is in weekly therapy too and I told him he needs to find out what inside him would let him do such a harmful thing and fix it.

My STBGX texts my daughter. She is going through a really tough time. When she responds she has been telling him like it is and I am very proud of her for that. She was always daddy’s girl and best friend and it’s not easy to get past that. She told me last week that she is almost to the point where she wants no communication with him right now because it’s just upsetting. She doesn’t know what the future will hold and if there will be any type of relationship between her and her dad. She just knows it will never be what she dreamed of.

My daughter said to me last week ‘I can’t believe this is our life’. That pretty much sums it up.

Thank you Sean for the feedback that you can so uniquely give. I wish you had an offshoot podcast to the Our Path podcast. I think it would be wildly popular.

Thank you to all of the good people who lend support on this forum. It really helps.

Sean wrote:

Gay-in-denial/closeted men often thrive on approval and validation, so being cut off from all of you is incredibly painful. While I'd discuss all of this with your therapist, he might go so far as trying to manufacture sympathy through a fake suicide attempt (he'll live) and/or some vague heath scare (likely false). .   

We think alike. My daughter was concerned about STBGX trying to hurt himself if he actually came to the realization of how badly he hurt her - he isn’t there yet. But the day after this happened we called his cousin to whom he is close (was actually there the night this happened) and asked as a favor to my daughter that they kind of keep an eye on him and keep in contact with him. STBGX has had periods in the past when he felt it would be better if he were dead, but I honestly don’t think he would have the wherewithal to actually plan out a suicide. 

As much as I hate him for what he did to my daughter and me, I do want him to figure out through therapy what he needs to do to improve his mental health and make true amends to all who were affected by his actions. I don’t know if that will ever happen, but it’s the only way he will even have a chance of a relationship with my daughter and her fiancé. I have told them I will support them in whatever they decide now and in the future regarding a relationship with him.

One really sad thing he said to me was that he now realizes he is bi (still in denial about being gay) and he is not ashamed to say it. I told him being Bi is nothing to be ashamed of. Cheating on your loyal wife of 33 years is. (In the weeks after he cheated his concern was not that people know he cheated, but that it was with a man.)

He has some serious thinking errors to correct - it goes very deep. I am someone who believes strongly in  recognizing mental illness as the medical illness that it is and not stigmatizing people for it. I myself was on disability for severe depression for 7 years. I worked part time and went through intensive treatment to try to improve my health. (As the primary income earner it was financially devastating and why I have no savings or investments, etc.). I was able to get back to a functioning state and return to work full time. I will always struggle with depression- there is no cure- but will always stay on top of my treatment especially my meds. But my STBGX went on disability for his mental health and did nothing to try to get better. I kept urging him to go to therapy and to talk to his psych more openly and frequently. I tried to get him to go to couples therapy with me many times but he refused.  I warned him that he would lose his disability if he didn’t but he wouldn’t do it until now. He had s people who loved and supported him and would have done anything for him and he threw it all away.

To my fellow posters who are in the thick of it right now questioning the lack of sex or affection and ‘wondering’ I ask you to really talk to a professional counselor and think about what this really means. I hate to see you end up like me - 33 years in to the marriage and realizing it was over decades ago.

Sean, thank you for your open feedback. It is so appreciated.

Take care all.

Thank you for sharing Can’t_make_this_up. In reply: 

1. We think alike. My daughter was concerned about STBGX trying to hurt himself if he actually came to the realization of how badly he hurt her - he isn’t there yet. But the day after this happened we called his cousin to whom he is close (was actually there the night this happened) and asked as a favor to my daughter that they kind of keep an eye on him and keep in contact with him. STBGX has had periods in the past when he felt it would be better if he were dead, but I honestly don’t think he would have the wherewithal to actually plan out a suicide. 

Good to know. But I'd be ready for some "big move" to change the narrative and/or re-take control of this situation. If he acts like many closeted husbands, he's furiously working behind the scenes to shift the blame off of himself.  

2. As much as I hate him for what he did to my daughter and me, I do want him to figure out through therapy what he needs to do to improve his mental health and make true amends to all who were affected by his actions.

Don't hold your breath. Many straight wives lose years trying to fix their broken husbands/ex-husbands...and see zero results. I'd urge you to focus 100% on yourself, your daughter, and your own healing. As I've often written here, I try to avoid getting into the water with people who can't (emotionally) swim. And why? Because I don't want to get dragged down to the bottom. I reckon it's time for you and your daughter to swim freely on your own. Please see the above post about my podcast/interview as we discussed many of these issues.  

3. I don’t know if that will ever happen, but it’s the only way he will even have a chance of a relationship with my daughter and her fiancé. I have told them I will support them in whatever they decide now and in the future regarding a relationship with him.

Good on you for keeping your distance from this toxic man.

4. One really sad thing he said to me was that he now realizes he is bi (still in denial about being gay) and he is not ashamed to say it. I told him being Bi is nothing to be ashamed of. Cheating on your loyal wife of 33 years is. (In the weeks after he cheated his concern was not that people know he cheated, but that it was with a man.)

Like many closeted/questioning husbands, he still seems fixated on hiding his true sexuality rather than apologizing to you. 

5. He has some serious thinking errors to correct - it goes very deep. I am someone who believes strongly in  recognizing mental illness as the medical illness that it is and not stigmatizing people for it. I myself was on disability for severe depression for 7 years. I worked part time and went through intensive treatment to try to improve my health. (As the primary income earner it was financially devastating and why I have no savings or investments, etc.). I was able to get back to a functioning state and return to work full time. I will always struggle with depression- there is no cure- but will always stay on top of my treatment especially my meds. But my STBGX went on disability for his mental health and did nothing to try to get better.

Tragic. 

6. I kept urging him to go to therapy and to talk to his psych more openly and frequently. I tried to get him to go to couples therapy with me many times but he refused. 

This follows a common path, namely the straight spouse urging a reluctant husband to "just come out already." Some closeted/questioning husbands just aren't ready and perhaps never will be. Please see the above post for details about my podcast/interview as we discussed this very question. 

7. He warned him that he would lose his disability if he didn’t but he wouldn’t do it until now. He had s people who loved and supported him and would have done anything for him and he threw it all away.

Again, he sounds mentally unstable and perhaps radioactive in a way. I'd urge you and your daughter to detach with love from this man. He can only save himself. He is no longer your responsiblity. 

8. To my fellow posters who are in the thick of it right now questioning the lack of sex or affection and ‘wondering’ I ask you to really talk to a professional counselor and think about what this really means. I hate to see you end up like me - 33 years in to the marriage and realizing it was over decades ago.

Excellent advice! I wish you all the best of luck in starting over. Please come back to post updates, perhaps on your own thread if you prefer. The kind members here will be a great support network. 

Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (November 14, 2021 12:22 am)

NOTE: This is my second try. The submit ate my response.

Can't,

I wanted to add my experience with the late GIDXH to Sean's thoughtful response.  (Red and italicized)

Sean wrote:

Thank you for sharing Can’t_make_this_up. In reply: 

1. We think alike. My daughter was concerned about STBGX trying to hurt himself if he actually came to the realization of how badly he hurt her - he isn’t there yet. But the day after this happened we called his cousin to whom he is close (was actually there the night this happened) and asked as a favor to my daughter that they kind of keep an eye on him and keep in contact with him. STBGX has had periods in the past when he felt it would be better if he were dead, but I honestly don’t think he would have the wherewithal to actually plan out a suicide. 

Good to know. But I'd be ready for some "big move" to change the narrative and/or re-take control of this situation. If he acts like many closeted husbands, he's furiously working behind the scenes to shift the blame off of himself.  

The GIDXH remembered every annoyance I told him about his and my relatives after we split up. He told them and lied that he had early stages of a debilitating sickness which I knew about.  I had accompanied him to many doctor appointments. The doctors said he did not have it. (It infuriated me that he had lied to me and wasted medical care. It took it away from people who were sick and needed it.) His aim was to make me look like a heartless, merciless spouse to our families.  In reality, that was him.

2. As much as I hate him for what he did to my daughter and me, I do want him to figure out through therapy what he needs to do to improve his mental health and make true amends to all who were affected by his actions.

Don't hold your breath. Many straight wives lose years trying to fix their broken husbands/ex-husbands...and see zero results. I'd urge you to focus 100% on yourself, your daughter, and your own healing. As I've often written here, I try to avoid getting into the water with people who can't (emotionally) swim. And why? Because I don't want to get dragged down to the bottom. I reckon it's time for you and your daughter to swim freely on your own. Please see the above post about my podcast/interview as we discussed many of these issues. 

I paid thousands of $$ to a psychiatrist to help him heal from child sexual abuse. He went at my insistence.  Can't say if he was molested for certain, but he became more abusive to me after 10 years with the same therapist. I learned the expensive way that therapy can help you if you truly, truly want to seek it and work to get better.  Therapy for the GIDXH was a way to keep the marriage going while punishing me monetarily for making him go. 

3. I don’t know if that will ever happen, but it’s the only way he will even have a chance of a relationship with my daughter and her fiancé. I have told them I will support them in whatever they decide now and in the future regarding a relationship with him.

Good on you for keeping your distance from this toxic man.

4. One really sad thing he said to me was that he now realizes he is bi (still in denial about being gay) and he is not ashamed to say it. I told him being Bi is nothing to be ashamed of. Cheating on your loyal wife of 33 years is. (In the weeks after he cheated his concern was not that people know he cheated, but that it was with a man.)

Like many closeted/questioning husbands, he still seems fixated on hiding his true sexuality rather than apologizing to you. 
Is he really ashamed of not being straight? I think he's inviting you to his pity party. I was helped immensely by the book 'The Sociopath Next Door,' by Martha Stout, PhD (published 2006). Older self-help books are often available through the public  library or online as free .pdfs.

5. He has some serious thinking errors to correct - it goes very deep. I am someone who believes strongly in  recognizing mental illness as the medical illness that it is and not stigmatizing people for it. I myself was on disability for severe depression for 7 years. I worked part time and went through intensive treatment to try to improve my health. (As the primary income earner it was financially devastating and why I have no savings or investments, etc.). I was able to get back to a functioning state and return to work full time. I will always struggle with depression- there is no cure- but will always stay on top of my treatment especially my meds. But my STBGX went on disability for his mental health and did nothing to try to get better.

Tragic. 

I am sorry for your depression and glad you worked hard to decrease your symptoms. That's admirable.  I wonder if his rejection of you exacerbated your illness.

I developed treatment resistant depression after being married 10 years. My psychiatrist put me on a low-dose atypical antipsychotic med (Zyprexa). I changed psychiatrists due to severe side effects of this med and got off it. That, CBT talk therapy and self-help methods motivated me to challenge GIDXH's behavior. It was the beginning of the end of my marriage. I severed contact with him post-divorce. I will never take another atypical antipsychotic med in my life either.

6. I kept urging him to go to therapy and to talk to his psych more openly and frequently. I tried to get him to go to couples therapy with me many times but he refused. 

This follows a common path, namely the straight spouse urging a reluctant husband to "just come out already." Some closeted/questioning husbands just aren't ready and perhaps never will be. Please see the above post for details about my podcast/interview as we discussed this very question. 

Me too. It was fruitless.

7. He warned him that he would lose his disability if he didn’t but he wouldn’t do it until now. He had s people who loved and supported him and would have done anything for him and he threw it all away.

Again, he sounds mentally unstable and perhaps radioactive in a way. I'd urge you and your daughter to detach with love from this man. He can only save himself. He is no longer your responsiblity. 

He would lose you (his free bank account/atm) if he went to therapy and took a chance the therapist would see through his lies.  The issue is not your unselfish love and support. He is not giving/has not given you the same love and support.  His main concern is meeting his sexual and material needs through any means necessary.

8. To my fellow posters who are in the thick of it right now questioning the lack of sex or affection and ‘wondering’ I ask you to really talk to a professional counselor and think about what this really means. I hate to see you end up like me - 33 years in to the marriage and realizing it was over decades ago.

Excellent advice! I wish you all the best of luck in starting over. Please come back to post updates, perhaps on your own thread if you prefer. The kind members here will be a great support network. 

Be well! 

Thank you for posting. You are a very sharp lady. You post helps everyone who's gone through this, including those who divorced their GID spouses a few years ago. I wish you and your daughter well!!  :-)

Best regards,
Maria


 

Hi Sean/Ryan,

You are welcome! My answers are in red and italicized.

Sean wrote:

Thanks for sharing everyone. MJM wrote: 

"I paid thousands of $$ to a psychiatrist to help him [ex-husband] heal from child sexual abuse. He went at my insistence.  Can't say if he was molested for certain, but he became more abusive to me after 10 years with the same therapist. I learned the expensive way that therapy can help you if you truly, truly want to seek it and work to get better.  Therapy for the GIDXH was a way to keep the marriage going while punishing me monetarily for making him go."

When a straight wife is seriously considering separation/divorce and discusses the same with a questioning husband, it's quite common for him to suddenly claim "I was sexually abused as a child and that sexual abuse made me gay." This is something I discussed extensively with Kristin K. during our chat S4 Ep 3: A “Narcissist in Recovery” Gets Real - OurPath. If you'd prefer not to listen through our almost two-hour discussion, fast forward to the 1 hour 3 minute mark when we review gay/questioning husbands claiming "I was abused." 

Having been through this situation, my questions for MJM are: 

1. What are the circumstances surrounding your ex-husband's claims of abuse? 
He stopped having sex with me a year into marriage. It hadn't been an issue during our engagement.

I asked him if he was gay or if there were another problem. That's when he said an adult female relative had molested him from ages 4 - 11.  The marriage had released the repressed memory of it. He cried and I believed him.

2. Were you considering separation/divorce at the time? 
That answer persuaded me to stay.

3. Did his therapy to address the abuse improve your relationship? 
He started to become very abusive and was violent. He had periods were he was on an even keel, but it never lasted.

4. Looking back, do you think he was telling the truth or perhaps lying about the abuse? 
If he was, I doubt it was repressed and long term.  Why tell me about the abuse at that point?  I was molested. I told him when the relationship looked serious. Why didn't he tell me about his "experience" then?

I told him I wanted to divorce many years later. He had new repressed memories of sexual abuse with a few other adult woman. It was too many to believe and told him. He claimed to have cheated with women throughout our marriage. I didn't believe that. I think it was a Hail Mary pass to keep me around and wound me simultaneously.

Thank you in advance for your answers. 

I listened to the podcast. It was refreshing to hear someone spill the beans about the closet. Thank you for doing it.