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April 14, 2021 6:54 pm  #1701


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Ex wife of a trans identified male here.  When my now ex announced he was "a woman in a man's body," he also decided he was a lesbian, and expected me to "identify" as one, too.

Here's my take on this idea that if your husband decides he's a woman and a lesbian, that makes you one: he can "identify" as what he wants, but he doesn't get to impose an identify on you.  You are straight.  

Not even the public figure Jennifer Finney Boylan (transwoman), transactivist, says her (formerly his) wife is a lesbian.  Boylan's wife, says Boylan, is straight, although Boylan identifies as a lesbian.

 Many lesbians who are female and with a same-sex orientation (e.g. lesbian) are extremely angry and upset that men who now identify as women are calling themselves women and lesbians and insisting female, same-sex oriented women accept their "girl dicks."  

 

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (April 14, 2021 6:55 pm)

 

April 18, 2021 11:22 pm  #1702


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Hello Sean and thank you for your post. I'm not sure you can answer my question. I will give you some background.

I am a 61 year old female. I met my husband at 17 and he was 20. We married when I was 22 and had just the one child when I was 27.

I was very hurt that when I was pregnant, m husband said he couldn't have sex with me - that it felt revolting knowing that I had a baby inside me. The pregnancy was planned and wanted. Before pregnancy, we normally had sex about once a week. After the baby was born, he maybe had sex with me once every couple of months. His drinking became heavier too.

He was not a regular kind of guy in some ways - but I liked him for his differences. He was not a macho type of guy and I think over a period of years, he became more effeminate (his speech and mannerisms). He loved cooking,was a good dancer and dresser. He could make me laugh and was kind.  I loved him so much.

When our son was 2,I found gay porn hidden. He swore it wasn't his and dmust have belonged to previous house owner. I know it didn't.

During the next few years, he became increasingly critical of me and after a few years, I was a total mess with absolutely no self-confidence. He could say hurtful things especially when drinking.

Eventually, I started making  friends outside the hone and saw a psychiatrist for some time. My confidence improved.  My husband's drinking increased. I wanted to go to counselling to save our marriage but he said no counsellor required, just a psychiatrist for me.  I had asked many times if he was gay but he said I was filthy and sick and denied it.

I left him. It was the hardest thing I ever did. Part of me hoped that he would tell me he loved me and wanted me to come back, but he didn't. He said he wanted me to come back because of mortgage and child so I didn't go back.

When our son was a teenager, people were gossiping about seeing him in public holding hands with other man.  He came out to our son, but never to me.  He told his family the year before he died that he was gay. His elderly mother said "It's just a stage.". He would say things to me inferring that there was nobody in his life. My son said to me that whenever his father spoke to or interracted with me, he was markedly less effeminate.

Over the years, we had contact mostly because of our son. Mostly we were on good terms. I last spoke to him a few weeks before he passed away after a one year illness.  He told my son then that I am a beautiful woman. At end stages of his life when he was heavily sedated in the hospital (and I wasn't there), he called out loudly a funny pet name he had for me which included m y unusual surname so couldn't be meant for  anyone else.

I went to his funeral and in the eulogy, learnt he had been with his soul mate for 11 years and they were supposedly dedicated to each other. There were photos of them embracingvand on the European holiday I once thought we would have together.

I knew from before he died that I never really stopped loving him. I have regrets about leaving him. I was a pallbearer at the funeral (My choice)

Right now, this feels like being divorced all over again, only worse.

Every day I'm tortured wondering if my ex-husband ever loved me. Was I j u st an incubator to him? Of course there so much to cant include here

His partner said during the eulogy that my ex said he was very glad that I was the mother of his child and they showed some photos of us together- but love was never mentioned.

I have had a couple other relationships, never remarried and those relationships were abusive in different ways, and there was something special during the early part of my marriage none of those other relationships had. I'm glad I never married any of those men. I have h a d times of missing my husband so much.

My question is, do you think he ever loved me?  THANK YOU

Last edited by JoDownUnder (April 19, 2021 12:00 am)

 

April 19, 2021 6:30 am  #1703


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for writing Jo, although I'm so very sorry that you're suffering. In response to your question "Do you think he ever loved me?" my response is: I don't think this man loved you but it has absolutely nothing to do with you my friend. He didn't love you because he was totally incapable of love. Now on to your post: 

1. I am a 61 year old female. I met my husband at 17 and he was 20. We married when I was 22 and had just the one child when I was 27. I was very hurt that when I was pregnant, m husband said he couldn't have sex with me - that it felt revolting knowing that I had a baby inside me. The pregnancy was planned and wanted. Before pregnancy, we normally had sex about once a week. After the baby was born, he maybe had sex with me once every couple of months. His drinking became heavier too.

What an *sshole for turning a pregnancy into something "revolting." What you've described fits a common pattern, meaning gay-in-denial husbands (GIDHs) making up rules or excuses to not have sex with their wives. 

2. He was not a regular kind of guy in some ways - but I liked him for his differences. He was not a macho type of guy and I think over a period of years, he became more effeminate (his speech and mannerisms). He loved cooking, was a good dancer and dresser. He could make me laugh and was kind.  I loved him so much.

There is nothing "kind" nor "loving" about sexually neglecting your wife. It's a form of abuse.  

3. When our son was 2, I found gay porn hidden. He swore it wasn't his and must have belonged to previous house owner. I know it didn't.

He was lying of course.  

4. During the next few years, he became increasingly critical of me and after a few years, I was a total mess with absolutely no self-confidence. He could say hurtful things especially when drinking. Eventually, I started making  friends outside the hone and saw a psychiatrist for some time. My confidence improved.  My husband's drinking increased. I wanted to go to counselling to save our marriage but he said no counsellor required, just a psychiatrist for me.  I had asked many times if he was gay but he said I was filthy and sick and denied it.

What a pr*ck. 

5. I left him.

Good...f*cking right you did! You had no choice my friend but to separate/divorce. I reckon it was survival. Had you remained with this horrible, abusive man, I believe he would have eventually killed your spirit. 

6. It was the hardest thing I ever did. Part of me hoped that he would tell me he loved me and wanted me to come back, but he didn't. He said he wanted me to come back because of mortgage and child so I didn't go back. 

"...come back because of the mortgage..." again a total pr*ck.

7. When our son was a teenager, people were gossiping about seeing him in public holding hands with other man.  He came out to our son, but never to me.  He told his family the year before he died that he was gay. His elderly mother said "It's just a stage." He would say things to me inferring that there was nobody in his life. My son said to me that whenever his father spoke to or interacted with me, he was markedly less effeminate.

How sad that he was cowering in the closet even when you knew he was gay. It's another example of how some men just can't fully come out. I know from experience. When I came out, I reckon 80% of the people I tearfully came out to said, "Meh" or "Well I always suspected." and 90% of the women in my life already knew. The fear was completely in my head. I can't imagine what level of denial you'd have to be in to assume your own son didn't talk to his mother about this. It sounds like he was a very damaged person...which has nothing to do with you. 

8. Over the years, we had contact mostly because of our son. Mostly we were on good terms. I last spoke to him a few weeks before he passed away after a one year illness.  He told my son then that I am a beautiful woman. At end stages of his life when he was heavily sedated in the hospital (and I wasn't there), he called out loudly a funny pet name he had for me which included my unusual surname so couldn't be meant for anyone else.

How pathetic that he never said any of these things to you directly. And what a shame that he apparently couldn't demonstrate a shred of kindness during your troubled marriage. 

9. I went to his funeral and in the eulogy, learnt he had been with his soul mate for 11 years and they were supposedly dedicated to each other. There were photos of them embracing and on the European holiday I once thought we would have together.

Wow. How tragic. 

10. I knew from before he died that I never really stopped loving him. I have regrets about leaving him. I was a pallbearer at the funeral (My choice). Right now, this feels like being divorced all over again, only worse.

Given what you've shared, I reckon you made the right decision to divorce my friend. You got away from an abusive, alcoholic, closeted husband who trapped you in sexless marriage. I can only imagine how much more he would have hurt you had you stayed.    

11. Every day I'm tortured wondering if my ex-husband ever loved me. Was I just an incubator to him? Of course there so much to cant include here. His partner said during the eulogy that my ex said he was very glad that I was the mother of his child and they showed some photos of us together- but love was never mentioned. I have had a couple other relationships, never remarried and those relationships were abusive in different ways, and there was something special during the early part of my marriage none of those other relationships had. I'm glad I never married any of those men. I have had times of missing my husband so much.

Question: what do you miss about an alcoholic, abusive, closeted ex-husband? While I don't have a lot of information here and I'm not a mental health professional, it sounds like you miss an idealized "early part of my marriage..." during which your husband was better at pretending to be straight.  

12. My question is, do you think he ever loved me?  THANK YOU

I'll try to answer by using quotes from your post. I don't define love as: 

a. Sexual Neglect: My husband said he couldn't have sex with me - that it felt revolting knowing that I had a baby inside me. 
b. Lies: When our son was 2, I found gay porn hidden. He swore it wasn't his and must have belonged to previous house owner. I know it didn't.
c. Abuse: He could say hurtful things especially when drinking. 
d. Addiction: My husband's drinking increased. 
e. Lies/Abuse: I had asked many times if he was gay but he said I was filthy and sick and denied it.

By my definition, he didn't love you because I don't define love as abuse, lies, and addiction. I define love as respect, kindness, and intimacy...three things apparently missing from most of your marriage. If your husband was anything like me, he loved his closet and heterosexual cover first. And if I'm reading your timeline correctly, the abuse, lies, and drinking intensified when you rightfully started to question his bullsh*t narrative that he was "straight." If your husband did truly love you, he would have done loving things, even after you divorced. He could have come out to you, made a heartfelt apology for the terrible way he treated you, and introduced you to his new husband. Even while dying, it sounds like this troubled man continued to cower in his dark closet. So no I don't think this damaged man loved you but it has absolutely nothing to do with you my friend. He didn't love you because he was totally incapable of love. 

I hope that helps my friend. Given what you've shared, you may want to read up on co-dependency. Most co-dependents feel an overwhelming need to, and express their love via helping others. And many straight spouses are co-dependents who married narcissistic, closeted husbands. While I'd suggest discussing this with a therapist, you might also want to try attending co-dependent's anonymous meetings. This could potentially be a free way for you to heal from a highly toxic and troubled former marriage. Please post again if you disagree or would like to share additional details. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (April 19, 2021 6:52 am)

 

April 19, 2021 9:43 am  #1704


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for your honesty Sean. I'm working at processing your reply because I know it isn't the answer I had hoped for but likely the answer I need.

I think I'm likely grieving the partner, marriage and life that I wanted but did not get to experience.

I know that something is wrong with me because even though I only had 4 relationships since then, and I thought I was choosing carefully, each relationship seemed to start off well, but would change. The first one after ex-husband didn't start for 3 years after I left the marriage. It lasted around 6 years I think. I found out he was leading a double-life, claimed in the last 2 years he had been diagnosed with bipolar. Someone who knew us both claimed he was bisexual. He became a gambling addict and serial cheater and liar.The police came looking for him when a woman a t his gym claimed he stalked and threatened her.

The next man was a psychologist, Mr Good Citizen. Very charming and conservative. His wife left him a few years before. He claimed she left him for another woman. After a while, I let myself be talked into moving in with him. He had major financial problems, 2 damaged teenagers in his care for half the time who he couldn't cope with. He is was emotionally abusive to his daughter. When she moved to live permanently with her mother, he became obsessed with his much younger hairdresser and dumped me. When she dumped him, he very soon met a wealthy widow whose husband died 6 months prior. They are still together. She's been very generous financially to him. He is hapoy. 'llHis ex-wife was also rich. I don't think he got over fact that she took her money with her when she left.

Next, I eventually became involved with man I knew in business who had told other people he had been very keen on me a long time, and others said how obvious it was that he liked me a lot. We had a shared interest in horses and animals and spent a lot of time together. After a while, we got together. I was so happy and he seemed very happy too!  Then it happened. It was his birthday. I put in a lot of effort to buy him some presents I knew he would really like. His father was there when he opened it.  Instead of just saying Thank you.  He said "Relationships are nice and good, but I don't need them." Every time I would say "Thanks, all the best and goodbye", he would be apologetic and regretful.  Eventually I completely closed the door on that one. He has claimed he never got over that loss and supposedly blames himself.

Finally after another couple of years, I took a chance again. Only lasted bit over a year all up.It ended with me getting a phone text a day after I saw him - me thinking it had been a really nice time. In the text, he told me that he didn't live me, never would and that he had just been using me for sex. I rang him, told him he was a coward and that I hated him and that I never wanted contact with him again. He kept trying to contact me but I wouldn't answer. A couple months later, I did reply. That was mistake. Said he had been confused and didn't mean what he said so I took him back. Within 6 weeks he did the same only worse again. I immefiately  blocked him from every area of my life. Had no contact for 15 months and never want to see him again.

I have become reclusive. I live with my 2 devoted dogs. My family are interstate. Best female friend passed away. Others have moved. In a way, I feel as though I'm marching time until I die although I like my job and where I live. I could never trust another man again. I feel revolted at the thought of sex since the last man. Despite this, there are times, I wish so much I had a nice partner who treated me well - but I just can't ever go there again.

I feel like such a messed up, damaged person at times. Totally unlovable and less than other people.

Right into my 50s, I was attractive, but not now. I grew up in an abusive home. My father was an alcoholic and my mother was diagnosed with bipolar when I was an adult - that explains a few things. I so wanted to be loved - It's not difficult for me to love - but it seems impossible for any man to  love me.  All my life, that's mostly what I wanted - and to have a happy, living family, but I have missed out on the partner a and marriage at least,and I'm grieving that.

I have a son who lives a few hours drive from me.  We speak on the phone every week, and meet every few months when his work permits. If it wasn't for my dogs, I would feel so totally alone. I don't doubt their love and adoration for me.

I'm sorry this has been so long. I think I have said it all now.  THANK YOU and I appreciate your posts.

Last edited by JoDownUnder (April 19, 2021 9:55 am)

 

April 19, 2021 11:20 am  #1705


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for replying Jo. Please don't feel the need to apologize for sharing. That's what this forum is for my friend. I'd suggest discussing all of the above with a qualified mental heath professional. While I'm no expert, I think you've made an excellent first step by sharing so openly and, potentially, identifying a pattern. Feel free to post again if you like, either here or your own thread. Be well!  

Last edited by Sean (April 19, 2021 11:26 am)

 

April 19, 2021 11:06 pm  #1706


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thanks Sean. I discussed all of this with a psychiatrist 25 years ago. I live in small community now. We don't even have a local medical officer, and mental health services for my th p e of issues are not free and would involve travel.

I have really done all I can. Before I left my husband, I h ad planned to suicide but making it look like an accident, but I did go see somebody then when I lived in the city.

I have my dogs, my own home (with mortgage) and a job. I see my son a couple of times a year. That is my life. Dogs have never let me down. Have had horses in the past and that was good.

Thanks for all of your help.

 

April 20, 2021 11:53 am  #1707


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for posting Jo. In reply: 

1. I discussed all of this with a psychiatrist 25 years ago. I live in small community now. We don't even have a local medical officer, and mental health services for my type of issues are not free and would involve travel.

I see. If you have internet service and still feel like you need to work through the trauma of divorcing a closeted husband, you might want to try online support groups (like coda.org) or perhaps online therapy. 

2. I have really done all I can. Before I left my husband, I had planned to [commit] suicide but making it look like an accident, but I did go see somebody then when I lived in the city.

I'm so sorry your former gay husband played a part in pushing you to consider suicide. 

3. I have my dogs, my own home (with mortgage) and a job. I see my son a couple of times a year. That is my life. Dogs have never let me down. Have had horses in the past and that was good. Thanks for all of your help.

It sounds like a very tranquil life and I'm glad you're feeling better my friend. Please post again with any questions. If I may, I have a question for you. You wrote: 

"​Thank you for your honesty Sean. I'm working at processing your reply because I know it isn't the answer I had hoped for but likely the answer I need." 

My question is: what is the answer you hoped for? Please don't feel any obligation to answer if you don't feel comfortable doing so. Be well! 

 

April 20, 2021 4:37 pm  #1708


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you Sean. Thank you for the suggestion of CODA too.

I know it likely sounds ridiculous, but I was hoping that my husband did in fact love me although he was a troubled person and despite everything that happebed.

I suppose if I felt he had loved me even though it wasn't possible to be in a "relationship" -  and I could accept that - I would feel better.  Knowing that I meant nothing to him and that he only ever used me, hurts enormously.

The fact that in  not one single relationship with a man I became intimate with was healthy, and that I was rejected by all of them - I can't even put into words how that feels. It's crushing because I would have really liked a kind loving relationship.

I do believe that culturally there are lot of issues with Australian men and masculinity. It's a little better these days but amongst many, there is a deep misogyny - and certainly still a high number of closeted gays.

It's sad that it is too late for me now. I know not impossible that in my old age, I could experience long-lasting happiness in a relationship - but extremely unlikely.

There was a tome - in the the early part of my marriage before I became pregnant that I had thought he really did love me, maybe around 4 years, but once I had the child it all went.

Oh my home I is such a mess right now. I'm tired from work and his death and everything it has brought up for me. I'm also doing some renovating so I need to tidy up my environment.

Thank you Sean.

 

April 20, 2021 4:48 pm  #1709


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

PS When I think back to those 4 years, on reflection, at that time, he benefited the mist from living a heterosexual lie. He was working to develop a career in a conservativefield and organisation where it was preferable at the time to give management positions to married men.

Also, I entered into financial agreements with him, helping pay off loans though when I left him, he showed his true identity colors where money was concerned. No conscience.

 

April 21, 2021 2:22 am  #1710


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for sharing Jo. I reckon you've already made considerable progress in just a few days. Your first posts were along the lines of, "He was the love of my life..." whereas you just posted this: 

"PS When I think back to those 4 years, on reflection, at that time, he benefited the mist from living a heterosexual lie. He was working to develop a career in a conservative field and organisation where it was preferable at the time to give management positions to married men. Also, I entered into financial agreements with him, helping pay off loans though when I left him, he showed his true identity colors where money was concerned. No conscience." 

You've demonstrated a great deal of healing in just a few posts. Imagine where you'd be after posting for a few more months, or even a year! So I'd encourage you to keep sharing, either here, on your own thread, or on another forum. 

Thanks to my time here and based on my own personal experience, I've learned the hard way that I can only truly love others as much as a I love myself. For example, while closeted, I HATED myself and was therefore totally incapable of loving my wife and kids. I showed them nothing but anger because I was angry with myself. So what's my point? Most straight wives I interact with here are no longer in love with their husbands and for good reason. After all who could love a lying, cheating, and abusive man? They often use words like "best friend" and "soulmate" when describing closeted husbands and I only recently understood why. In my opinion, many straight wives are in love with a fantasy, meaning they are in love with the man he could be, rather than truly in love with the man he's been for most of their marriages. For some reason, they appear to be in love with some Disney dream prince version of their husbands, rather than the porn addicted, Grindr surfing, dildo hiding spouse they live with. Put bluntly, many are in love with a fantasy, rather than reality. 

Please note that I am not judging you, nor any of the other straight wives posting here. I lived in my own fantasy world in which a gay man could marry a woman, have children, and hide his terrible secret forever. Madness! In retrospect, I now understand that closeted men like me force their wives, children, and families to live in our dark closets. And when our caring straight wives try to crack the closet door open just a little bit, we slam it shut and attack them for shining even a little sliver of light on our secrets. I have always maintained that whether a straight spouse fully understands it or not, once she starts posting here her marriage is effectively over. Everything else - the marriage counselling, mixed orientation marriage, the pegging - is just bargaining with reality. Gay/straight marriages simply don't work so I applaud you for having the courage to divorce your gay husband so many years ago. That took a lot of guts. 

I'd now urge you to take all of that love, energy, and time to focus 100% on you. Love yourself like your life depends on it and the right man might come along, or not. And if he doesn't, no problem because you love and respect yourself. I hope that makes sense on some level. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (April 21, 2021 2:25 am)

 

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