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General Discussion » The affect on your self-image and a bit of venting, in reverse order » January 23, 2023 1:52 pm

Hello everyone!

Recently I had a discussion with my lesbian wife about the affect her coming out has had on me. The realization I haven't interacted with a straight woman in a romantic way in 23 years has damaged my self-image and self-confidence. I'm quiet and don't meet people easily. She makes friends EVERYWHERE. She says I am everything a straight woman could want and more, physically, romantically, intimately. That's very kind and nice to hear, but honestly, it doesn't really matter. When someone who has ripped your heart out and is completely uninterested in you romantically tells you you're a catch, it sounds hollow.

She gets hit on (and tells me about it) by men nearly every time she leaves the house. Apparently my need for some external validation isn't alright, even though she receives it constantly and up until very recently, received a TON from me. She's even been hit on by, according to her, a much younger woman in a gay bar, which was very exciting for her.

To be fair, I told her she should go on a date with the express intention of determining whether she was really a lesbian and being with a woman is what she wanted. She kept saying she was confused and didn't know what she wanted and I was tired of being in limbo. I told her they could go on a couple dates, hold hands or kiss. I thought she'd tell me before it happened. For me, getting drunk in a bar and dancing/touching a woman you're attracted to is far beyond what I said, and finding out about it afterward felt like complete betrayal. Regardless of her intentions. All it would have taken was a phone call to tell me what her and her friends were doing and had anything changed, or what was I okay with. She said she even thought about the fact that she didn't know if I was still okay with her doing it- I'd offered that for a specific reason months before. Anyway...

She's told me I should go out and get laid. Well, that would be nice but my heart doesn't work like that. I wish it did. Maybe I'll

Support » Amicable relationships » January 22, 2023 3:06 pm

I know that when I defend and explain my spouses' experiences (to whatever degree I'm able to) it could sound really hurtful and invalidating, or even like my situation is wonderful and I don't get what others are going through. Many spouses have had awful things done to them, both straights and LGBT spouses. I wish I knew a better way to balance it all. I don't see that hating anyone for who they are is helpful, but anger over the situation or the way they hurt you also makes sense sometimes. Staying there would destroy me. I really wish this forum were moderated by trained therapists. I think we'd all be better off if it were.

Support » Amicable relationships » January 22, 2023 3:01 pm

We are working through how to separate now. I'm not sure how we'll do it. Financially it would be extremely difficult to have separate households, and it would be really hard on our kids too. I don't know if that can work though. 

Anon2222 wrote:

I am truly glad for you that you are able to work out the situation with your spouse and process things together. That is what is missing in a lot of these relationships.

Honestly, if everything had ended the same (ie: divorce) but my spouse and I had worked together, as a team, to come to this conclusion. That would be one thing. I do think the pain would be just as bad at times but the sense of betrayal, confusion, grief and disassociation from my life would have been a lot less. 

But, my gay husband literally choose to sit down on the couch beside me one Saturday morning and said "I'm gay, I'm divorcing you". Like a frying pan to the face. I had no idea. We never talked about it. Didn't have a single clue that he was just planning out our divorce for the last while....

And then he walked out, and didn't come back. Left me with everything. All the bills, upkeep and everything else, with half the salary. He just literally abandoned his life. Ironically I had planned a really awesome surprise vacation for our anniversary. 

I am also left with the thought that I was with this person for 2 decades of my life and apparently he was a complete stranger. Also, try coping with the realization that no one has ever truly loved you and seen you as a partner. It's a horrible and cruel thing to find out and learn to cope with.

But I have also not taken this out on my spouse. I do not blame him for being gay. I am well aware it's not something anyone has control over. But, I sure do hold him responsible for his behaviour and how he handled everything. And the gaslighting and emotional/psychological abuse he put me through.

I am not vindictive. I don't want bad things for him. Honestly, I do want him to be happy. But I have som

Support » Amicable relationships » January 19, 2023 8:32 pm

When I first heard that phrase, I chaffed at it. I was in pain and I felt like that phrase meant my pain was my fault for not handling it better. That's not what it means. It means that I have to process my own feelings, and others have to process through their own feelings. My spouse can't fix my feelings. As much as she actually wants to. If I ask her to bear my feelings, she's powerless to do anything about it and I give up my power and healing. The same goes for her.  

You're right, my feelings are a consequence of other's actions sometimes. Someone CAN do something that hurts me. In my situation, my wife figured out her identity after 40 years of internalized shame. She told me, even though I could have rejected her. She's spent two years trying and wanting to be bisexual so we don't lose our marriage. All of that has been painful for both of us. All of that has hurt enough that I've wanted to die and privately planned to mulitple times. It hurt, despite her not wanting it to, despite her efforts, apologies, and sacrifices. She can't heal me. If she could, she would. I can and I have to. Otherwise I'm choosing to stay in this spot, and if I do that, I will certainly end my life. Instead I'm going to be responsible for my feelings and heal.

That's what that means. It doesn't help until it does. At this moment it is helping me. It probably won't tomorrow. But one day, one moment of better is worth it to me.


lily wrote:

Maybe you are the one responsible for coping with how you handle your feelings but how you feel is often very much a consequence of another's actions.

 

Support » Telling the kids... » January 19, 2023 6:40 pm

I don't know your situation, but I have some thoughts. My lesbian wife and I just had this conversation as well. Our oldest teens know she isn't straight, but that's it. She said she was ready to tell our kids that she's lesbian. I asked if she wanted to do that together or separately. She wants to tell them that herself, when it works, probably in the next couple weeks. If the kids ask about how it will affect our marriage, we're both telling them that we're working that out. IMO, her sexuality is hers to explain and I'm supportive of that. I asked for her to tell me when she tells them so I know and can respond to them, knowing that they know.

When it comes to our separation/divorce, that's a conversation we'll have with them together. We both feel that having one conversation about both subjects would have a number of bad effects on our kids. 1- Their mom being gay (something she can't control and isn't at fault for- and it isn't wrong or bad) would be associated with our divorce and their loss. It could send a message that their mom is to blame for their family changing. That's not fair to anyone, and I don't need to be seen as a victim by my kids, 2- If any of our kids could be gay, guess what that association could do? Drive them into a closet, leading them to get married to hide and perpetuating this awful cycle. Or at the very least, make them feel shame about themselves when they shouldn't. 

Kids from divorced homes suffer when their parents can't get along and there's animosity. When parents make an effort to get along, kids do much, much better. It's my opinion, though it's extraordinarily hard, that our kids being okay is far more important than them blaming the "right" parent. Consider taking the higher road. Your pain, grief, and disappointment are completely justified. Your anger at the situation is too. You may want to consider something- if one of your kids is gay or has gay friends, this may turn them completely against you, or worse, tell them

Support » A conversation….finally » January 19, 2023 6:05 pm

You aren't crazy, and despite what others may say, there is no such thing as something you should feel. Your feelings are exactly what they "should" be because it's what they are. Other peoples' anger in their own situation is also valid. There is no right way to go through this.

That is exactly how I felt and responded. Knowing some of the reasons why he's denied his sexuality up to this point may help you eventually- that has helped me avoid the anger and self-pity I was starting to experience. Things like what kept him closeted, etc. The pain, fear, confusion, self-hatred and shame so many LGBT people experience is unimaginable. It helped for me to know that my spouse didn't even know she could actually BE gay. She was taught that everyone was born straight, but some people are tempted with gay attraction and it just has to be ignored or pushed away. That's what she did, until it was automatic. But it meant she wasn't herself and it ate away at her without her even knowing.

Don't overthink things and take one day at a time. I think you should try to find a therapist for yourself immediately. You're going to need support and it's better to find it when you're not chin-deep in difficult feelings. 

 

Support » Amicable relationships » January 19, 2023 4:44 pm

I'm sorry Rob, that sounds very difficult. I think there's so much pain in these situations for everyone. No one wins. I don't know if this helps, but my therapist says I have to remind myself that I'm not responsible for anyone else's feelings. I'm only responsible for my own. It doesn't usually help me much, but some days it does.

Rob wrote:

2717,

Me and my GX amicably raise our kids...its amicably in that neither of us wants to talk to the other. Will not be taking any vacations together "for the kids".
The times we need to be together she conveys anger and a sick abnormal silent treatment like I did something wrong..ready to rage at any moment.

It's not anger on my part but pure physical fear.

I pray you can separate and not get treated like me.. your right the kids need a mom and dad that get along. For many if us it's hard to do when our exs are not clearly not normal.

 

Support » Amicable relationships » January 17, 2023 5:16 pm

I'm really sorry you went through that. I appreciate you respecting my request and I'll keep your advice in mind. I have found some public examples of MOMs that break up but stay friends, take vacations together, stay somewhat active in each others' lives, hang out weekly, etc. Having those visible/audible examples is really helpful. Having our kids both complicates things and forces us to prioritize kindness and working it out because they're our #1 concern at this point. 

 

lily wrote:

okay, so I'll say the thing I want to - it's not negativity it's hopefully helpful for navigating the time ahead of you -

traditionally, since divorce became an option, people have advised that first you end the marriage and then see about the friendship.

This is good advice on so many levels, but in terms of avoiding getting creamed in a divorce settlement, it is key.

It's pretty simple the way it worked for me - my ex suggested I give him a lump sum and in return I could have all the furnishings - everything except the house, we kept our own cars.  I thought okay it's more than it's actually worth but it is worth it because we won't have to argue about who gets what.  Then over the ensuing months it started with, well you can't take the tools, they're mine.  oh yes?  you can't leave me without a set of kitchen utensils.  and oh goodness you can't leave me without a bed or a chair or a tv or a fridge or a washing machine.  On the day I left he had taken my best linen and put it on his bed - I should have taken the linen, bed included but I didn't - still wanting to be his friend.  still unable to see beyond my own generally friendly persona.

 

 

Support » Amicable relationships » January 17, 2023 5:05 pm

We're starting the process of figuring out how to separate now. I'm assuming I'm going to hate life for a while. I hope we can get through it without too much damage and expense. Thanks for the advice!

lily wrote:

Hi

Glad to hear you are both accepting the incompatibility and moving towards separation.

Sorry to hear of your pain.  As you say, we do understand that here.

Divorce is pretty horrible, and you only get to do it once - there's no take back clause where you say, oh I should have been the one to keep the car, can you give it back to me please.  The financial affects of divorce are obviously going to be serious however you go - you are dividing what was previously one pot into two.  

If you can keep an eye on that - a fair separation of any assets so that you are getting your fair share as well as her - that's only going to help provide a stable ground for any future friendship on the other side of divorce.

wishing you all the best, Lily.  

 

 

Support » Amicable relationships » January 17, 2023 5:03 pm

Dear ImSoConfused,

I'm so very sorry you're going through this. Your story sounds somewhat familiar, especially the pain and fear. I told her again last night- I don't WANT a divorce. I don't want to be without her. I want to wake up every day to her, all of that. But as you said, it isn't truth. It hurts us straight spouses to know we're not wanted or loved the way we've desired and loved them, and that our lives haven't been what we believed them to be, and it hurts our LGBT spouses because they're pretending to be something they aren't and they see the hurt they're causing. I know many believe that LGBT spouses are uncaring about that, but I don't believe that's the dominant scenario.  

There is no right way to do this. That by itself can be scary, but just know that however you work through it is completely fine. I don't know why people think it's helpful to try to predict your process. That isn't helpful at all, even if you do eventually get angry about it. Anger is a feeling, just like sadness and grief. I've found that anger is a protective/defensive emotion, while sadness and grief bring healing. It feels like you might die from grief sometimes but you just have to get through one day at a time and eventually it lessens. I have good days now. The last week I've been spontaneously crying a dozen times a day, sometimes right in front of people. It's the way it is. 

It will help to stop telling yourself that your life is ruined, your kids' lives are destroyed, and you're driving him further into the closet. I promise none of that is true. You'll get through this. We can't see the happiness we'll enjoy after we've gone through this, but it'll be there. If you both can limit animosity between you, that has the biggest impact on your kids. Taking an extended break from each other might help you do that. Regarding your husband and his closet- he's not hiding because of you. He's hiding because of deep shame and fear. You aren't responsible for that. You didn't

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