OutofHisCloset wrote:

Here's what sticks in my craw. Ellexoh, you get on other threads and enable others' denial and hope with your "your journey" cant,  but when you are unhappy and chafing in your "r'ship," you feel perfectly fine sniping on this thread (you have even been called out on it); yet when others see what looks like "irresponsible advice" (to quote Lily) to a desperately hoping new arrival, and object, you cry foul.

I have to say, I have found it very encouraging to see how Ellexoh has shared her journey with us. She's listened and debated and sometimes gotten angry, and she's slowly evolved... all VERY human behaviors that show new members that we all have different pathways to our goals. I'd much rather a new member saw the raw, real, day-to-day struggle that goes into keeping any marriage alive, instead of blowing smoke up their tailpipe about any linear path to wedded bliss in an MOM.

I don't think she liked me very much when I sashayed in (heck, she probably still doesn't), but I think we have slowly gotten to a place of mutual respect. Nobody else can know what it is like in our shoes. But I admire her courage and her willingness to publicly discuss this tough topic, and that in itself... bringing these stories out of the shadows, removing the sense of shame... is an excellent example for our new visitors.

Ellexoh_nz wrote:

YazPistachio wrote:

.........I didn't want to be the reason he COULDN'T have sex outside our marriage. I wanted to be the reason he DIDN'T........

I love this sentence
 

It's a paraphrase from a Dan Savage column, one that might actually be relevant to this discussion, so I've linked it below. If all our husbands could have read this letter BEFORE asking to fulfill their fantasies, I bet a lot of heartache could have been avoided. I asked my husband to read it, and it helped him understand my dilemma in ways I could not explain before.

https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2019/01/30/38463458/miserable-woman-gives-happily-married-man-her-permission-to-see-a-trans-escort

In our case (and I'm certain in most situations like this), the woman is NOT intentionally setting up a trap or a test... we want to believe our partners wouldn't intentionally hurt us, we want to believe we can genuinely be as gracious and generous and tolerant as our husbands are asking us to be, and when we find out just how awful we feel after the fact (a million times worse than we ever anticipated, and we weren't exactly anticipating happy happy joy joy in the first place), we decide that nothing is worth feeling this bad. The fact that something our partner enjoys is hurting us and they STILL want to do it clearly puts our needs and worth and stable marriage far below their fantasy fulfillment.

I think these conversations and understandings need to be clear as a bell long BEFORE anyone even thinks about asking to open their marriage. This is one time where the ounce of prevention is worth several tons of a cure!

My partner also asked to have sex outside the marriage at the end if 2017. We inched closer towards it almost a year ago when he attended a gay men's sex party (he says he only watched, and I believe him). Despite my deep desire to be an accommodating, giving partner, this event ultimately triggered a massive mental health decline for me (it uncovered complex PTSD from childhood, involving a sense of feeling abandoned and not enough for him). We put everything on hold while I began my healing journey, which is still in it's early days. I now know for certain that I will damn near eviscerate myself to help him get what he wants, because that's what love meant to me as a child (anxious attachment disorder, leading to me negating my own desires and needs in favor of those of my loved ones). My partner now knows that it will be impossible for me to accept him having sex outside our marriage, and that even asking would put me into a position of having to destroy myself. He has decided that what we have together is worth far more than his fantasy fulfillment, and that participating in several gay-oriented social clubs is enough for him to feel seen and recognized as a gay man (which made him feel much more honest and authentic). He doesn't understand my equating love and sex (which I think is a guy thing... they are wired for no-strings-attached sex, but women have so much more to lose from pregnancy and disease, so we have evolved to only feel safe having sex with people we trust and love), but he has chosen to respect it as the "price of admission" for our partnership. Knowing that he has set aside his deepest desires to make me feel safe and loved really has helped me relax and appreciate what we have together. I would not be able to ask him to do that for me, but I think he knows I would not be able to stay with him if he asked again to have an open marriage... I barely survived the first time, and I would not sit around at home waiting for him while beating myself fo

You wrote: "All in all life is good right now, so some days I think why not just take it day by day and keep going as is for the time being." 

There have been MANY tough days that this kind of thinking has kept me going. I think of it as dealing with what is in my headlights... you can make the whole journey at night, never seeing further than just a few feet ahead of you; as long as you don't go faster than your reflexes can handle, you can cover a lot of ground over time just by dealing with what appears right in front of you.

I just want to clarify... a MOM is not the same as an open marriage. My MOM is monogamous and so are many others.

Regarding an open marriage: this option really is only workable IF both parties REALLY feel safe and secure in their primary relationship. This is NOT something to try as a "Hail Mary" or last resort... it's only going to work if both partners are really in tune with each other and know in their hearts that their connection is 100% rock solid. Trying this after an affair is even more tenuous... you both have to do a lot of work to make sure you know how the affair came about, the betraying partner needs to fully embrace their responsibility and demonstrate true remorse, trust needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, and you both need to find ways to avoid creating a similar situation in the future. It's not impossible, but it's a hard row to hoe and you are to be commended for being willing to tackle it!

One other thing my GH and I have started doing to improve things has been to treat each night as if it were our last night together... it's a form of mindfulness that keeps us from taking each other for granted, because one of these days, it really WILL be our last night together. We do a crossword together, sometimes share a little bowl of ice cream, go over our past day and our plans for the next, journal, turn on this silly little disco light and listen to some spacey music to wind down, he'll brush

HeyJupiter wrote:

Oh, so my question or aspect of MOMs I’m curious about is that MOMs seem to also include sex between straight spouse and gay partner....So, just curious how gay partners continue to have sex with straight partners. 

Hi, HeyJupiter...

I've heard another woman in an MOM describe her husband as "one wife short of gay." In our situation, my husband has plenty of desire for me, but then again we always said it was our brains that fell in love with each other. I always fell for my gay best friends, so when one of them actually fell for me, it was like hitting the jackpot. We've always incorporated gay imagery and culture into our lives (porn, erotica, movies, drag shows, LGBT pride events, etc.) including the bedroom, which I'm sure has been part of why he's been able to come to terms with his sexuality.

But I'm certain that if you asked 10 different couples, you'd get 10 different answers. I think keeping the physical spark alive between two people over the long term can be a challenge even without mixed orientations, and I'd suggest using similar methods: schedule your "date" night (meaning, plan to have sex at least a few days out), tease and touch each other a lot leading up to it, have lots of tools in your toolbox (meaning, be willing to try different things... mutual masturbation, different positions, oral sex, taking turns picking the porn, power exchange, roleplaying, pegging, having sex in different places in your house, incorporating food play or just feeding each other, withholding, and so forth), and don't be afraid to try a little adult recreational materials -- booze or weed -- to lower inhibitions, especially if it's been a while since you both got it on with each other.  All those are things that people of all orientations do!

If you are in a good place communication-wise, maybe set aside some time (when you are NOT specifically getting sexy, but in an intimate and comfortable place, maybe during cuddling and pillowtalk at