Thank you for writing MrsSalt. In reply: 

1. My question is: If a married man has been using gay dating apps for five years and admits to sleeping with four men but insists that he is not gay, what do you think?

Well if I claim to be a vegetarian, then use the "meat lovers" app for five years, and eat at a steak restaurant four times (although likely more), am I still a vegetarian? Nope. So regardless of what this man is claiming, he isn't 100% heterosexual. 

2. He says he didn’t enjoy those encounters, that he sometimes showed up for dates but left without doing anything, and his explanations are often vague.

Assuming this is your husband, many straight wives in your situation revert to using vague words like "encounters" as a coping mechanism. I think it would be more accurate to write, "He says he didn't enjoy f*cking men" which begs the question: "Why then was he f*cking men?" If someone doesn't truly enjoy something, then they don't do it. Going back to my first example, if I'm a vegetarian or vegan, why the hell am I chowing down on ribs so frequently?  As for his vague minimizations, it's quite common for cheaters to do this type of thing when they get caught. Of course he's lying...both to himself and his wife.   

3. To me, five years seems like a pattern—it's hard to believe that someone would repeatedly engage in something they don’t actually enjoy.

100%

4. Now, he is asking for forgiveness and promises never to do it again. If I were to even consider forgiving him (which feels extremely difficult), I need to understand—does this sound like deception to you?

Yes. The most common scenario post-discovery is as follows: he will claim some form of trauma or abuse is the cause of his same-sex attraction; a 3-4 month sex-filled honeymoon period ensues during which the cheating husband tries to win her back; he reluctantly starts couples counselling or therapy (at her urging); he continues cheating but goes

I was re-reading Alex's post and think there might be a difference between her experience and the experience of many straight wives who visit this forum. By way of background, Alex's husband came out as bisexual and (I believe) they consensually explored non-monogamy. During that time, they saw a number of dating profiles, namely: 

- "Mostly into guys, but have a kinda heavy femdom kink", - single gay male, 20s, (from Feeld profile)
- "I'm gay, but am interested to explore things with MF couples", - partnered gay male, 30s, (from Feeld profile)
- "No offense, but between you and your husband, we would rather play with you", - MM couple in their 30s (from conversation on Feeld). Probably my favorite, sadly, never got to meet them in person.
- "I'm mostly into guys, but sometimes I just want to eat a chick up, you know", - single "I don't like labels, but only date guys" male, 20s (from a conversation between my husband and a guy he met on Tinder) 

Most of the above men are single and identify as gay. The husband I was referring to would have a profile as follows: 

- Deeply closeted straight-identifying husband/father seeks discreet "down low" encounters with other men. Can't host but will travel. 

As I've written in previous exchanges with Alex, I reckon we're comparing princes (Alex's husband) to frogs (most closeted gay husbands). And why? Because: 

- Alex and her husband still have an active sex life. Many women here have had nothing but dead bedrooms and/or disinterested sexual partners...often starting from their honeymoons. 
- Her husband honestly came out to her...and now part of his family. Most husbands described in this forum cling desperately to their closets and deny any attraction to men. 
- Alex's husband never cheated and they mutually decided to open their marriage. Most husbands described here cheat, lie, and (sadly) put their wives at risk of STDs/STIs because they often have unprotected sex outside their marriages.

"I'm straight but have sex with men." = "I'm a vegetarian who eats steak." 

Thoughts? I'm fascinated by the phenomenon of men who cling desperately to their straight identities while using Grindr/Sniffies, regularly have sex with men, and watch gay porn. By most objective standards, men who have sex with men are no longer heterosexual. 

"Yes I have sex with men, but we don't kiss!" = "I'm a vegetarian who eats steak, but not the french fries with gravy!" 

Husbands married to wives caught cheating often try to bargain away gay sex because they don't do oral, kiss, aren't penetrated blah blah blah. If a man is so disinterested in sex with men, doesn't really enjoy it, and finds the gay "Iifestyle" repulsive, then why have sex with a man? So again I call bullsh*t but feel free to share your thoughts. Oh and it never happened "just once" and yes he did enjoy it. Otherwise why go to such lengths to hide it? I look forward to your comments. Be well! 

Thank you everyone for writing and a very Merry Christmas. 

In response to MGMommy: 

1. Why did my gay ex-husband start to do things with his new partner that he would not do with me? Things he says he hated? Little things like go to a street fair, or bigger things, like go to visit NYC? He also quit smoking for this new partner & no amount of concern and begging from me would ever make him even consider putting down cigarettes.

I'm so sorry for your pain friend. He probably did these things because he was in the flush of gay adolescent love. After coming out, I reverted to an adolescent state of puppy love during which I would have done anything for/with my first boyfriend. If your ex-husband's experience in any way mirrors my own, he was probably acting like a 13-year-old gay boy with his first crush...not a mature middle-aged man. 

2. I moved on with my life & despite a horrible divorce process & my own feelings- I made sure to foster our children’s relationship with their father. I even got them a (flip) cell phone at a young age so they could call him freely without me as an intermediary. I had hoped for friendship with my ex but it is clear he did not want that. So I let that go. I think he hates me & in a pathetic way, how I miss the friendship I thought we had…

This must have been incredibly painful. Perhaps your ex-husband doesn't hate you but rather hates the (straight) person he pretended to be for so many years and he felt the need to reject you as a form of f*cked up coping mechanism. 

[b]3. Anyway, we separated in 2008, divorced in 2010. I found out from both of our adult children @2021-23 (they each told me on their own without their sibling present)  that I was the butt of the joke - the subject of ridicule and mocking - behind my back for years. The kids told me that my ex’s partner, to his credit, would say that’s enough & not in front of your kids to him. Meanwhile, I thought we were all living at let live. I neve

Thank you Alex. If any straight wives have questions for a gay ex-husband, please feel free to post below.