thanks Sean, that was very funny.  and true.  Tho I do think it's a bit different for Alex than for wives who have no choice in identifying as straight.

Sam that was too funny, I am the same.  I realised the other day I can't keep imagining I am still slender or I'll never believe I need to lose any weight.  

I've heard the human genome described by a geneticist as like a bag of marbles, a few big ones compared to the number of little ones.  And I've heard them talk about DNA that is in you but not expressed - switched off, and that they can switch on in later life.  so there's my binary code.  a gene is switched on or off.  Just like those computers we built.

You are right tho, I have no real basis, just an instinctive take on things where I believe that same sex orientation is at the heart of things like bisexuality - like a big switch when so much of the surrounding sea of supporting switches are going the other way.  

Last edited by lily (September 29, 2024 2:18 am)

MGMommy wrote:

I just listened to S4 EP 3: A “NARCISSIST IN RECOVERY” GETS REAL
Guest: Ryan King.
All I can say is wow. What a transparent discussion that accurately described my experience.

I always suspected that the collateral damage to me and my life was not taken into consideration.
I’m happy to feel affirmed & not crazy- but like the interviewer- it still brings pain to my heart.

I have two quick questions:

1.) Why did my gay ex-husband start to do things with his new partner that he would not do with me? Things he says he hated? Little things like go to a street fair, or bigger things, like go to visit NYC? He also quit smoking for this new partner & no amount of concern and begging from me would ever make him even consider putting down cigarettes.

2.) I moved on with my life & despite a horrible divorce process & my own feelings- I made sure to foster our children’s relationship with their father. I even got them a (flip) cell phone at a young age so they could call him freely without me as an intermediary.
I had hoped for friendship with my ex but it is clear he did not want that. So I let that go. I think he hates me & in a pathetic way, how I miss the friendship I thought we had…
Anyway, we separated in 2008, divorced in 2010. I found out from both of our adult children @2021-23 (they each told me on their own without their sibling present) that I was the butt of the joke - the subject of ridicule and mocking - behind my back for years. The kids told me that my ex’s partner, to his credit, would say that’s enough & not in front of your kids to him. Meanwhile, I thought we were all living at let live. I never bothered him unless it was about the kids & when my youngest turned 18 (she is 20 now) I stopped nearly all communication. I developed excellent boundaries due to my work on myself in a 12 step program & therapy.
What is the point of being so nasty & mean? He destroyed my life & then went on his merry way while I was completely devastated & had to pick up the pieces…and I did pick up those pieces and re-made myself!
Why the smear campaign? It’s illogical. It seems NUTS.

Thanks for all of your insights. It is very affirming!
Take care.

I just want to pass along a virtual hug. I have also been through what you are listing, and I truly will never understand.

I was a faithful wife, who stood by his side for close to 20 years. I loved him and I made decisions based on the marriage and sacrificed a lot.

1) After my was-band blind sided me and walked out - while I was picking up the shards that he left of my entire life - he went on a month long dream vacation. One that I had planned out and been practically begging him to go on. Man alive I wanted that vacation. It was a slap in the face to find out that he wanted to travel and do all sorts of things....just not with me.

When we did the financial disclosure during the divorce....I saw a bunch of travel. Fancy restaurants. Activities. He was going out all the time. Again, all the things I wanted to do and the life I wanted to live....that he refused to do when we were married. There was always an excuse why he wouldn't do something. Apparently there's no excuses anymore.

2) I also missed the "friendship" more than anything. To go from sharing your life, talking about everything, to radio silence....was gut wrenching. At first I thought we could at least remain cordial and just be in each others life a little (nothing crazy - but like someone you could call in an emergency - boy was I wrong). 

I don't understand the cruelty. He also mocked me, insulted me, made fun of me. Honestly, I think he hates my guts and blames me for everything. During the divorce he demanded that I accept half the blame for the marriage failing - telling me that I was just as much at fault as he was (regardless of everything in life, I absolutely refuse to take any accountability for the marriage ending, because I did nothing wrong and I was not the one who lied the entire time).

It was like absolutely destroying me as a human being was not enough. He had to kick me when I was down. To the point where he would send me messages about how happy he was now that he dumped me. Hell, he even told me that now that he left that he came to the realization that he hated me and everything in his life and never wanted any of it (thanks?)

I don't get it. And I probably never will. Personally, I think they are sick. It takes a really messed up person to lie to themselves for decades and then blame the innocent party. And then to go beyond that and lash out, blame and mock their faithful and loving spouse. It is f-ed up.
 

Hi Sean,
I’m really hoping you can help me out here with some insight. I’ll try to start from the beginning and share everything I can think of that leads me to be suspicious.

So when my husband and I got together he initially love bombed me pretty hard. After about two months I was in love with him and began to reciprocate the affection in the way that he was. It was honestly a red flag how strong he came on at the beginning. I sold my house and moved in with him so when I began to see the red flags, I was trapped already. Suddenly he started not wanting sex at all, turning me down and not initiating. Wouldn’t go down on me or even touch me or look at me during sex. He’d be staring at a wall or the tv, eyes totally glazed over, not even there. He would even fall asleep during sex. No kissing or cuddling, acted like he hated me honestly. Would turn down blow jobs. Hated period sex. Totally disassociated. My friends mentioned in the beginning that the love bombing was a red flag and even asked, is he gay? When I’d talk about the sexual issues. I thought NO WAY! Eventually he shared he had no libido and was on antidepressants, but he still managed to watch porn and then turn me down. I call bullshit on the low libido if he’s able to jerk off to porn before I get home from work. So then he gets off his antidepressants, we make a sex schedule, I put a filter on his phone so he can’t watch porn, and it seems to get better. He was very avoidant attachment and it’s gotten so much better. He also may have ASD and has ADHD. He’s much more open and honest but only when asked questions and he has lied to me before…

Then one day we were sharing fantasies and mine was a gangbang, he expressed that he would be into it which surprised me because most men aren’t willing to share I feel like and most straight men don’t wanna be around a bunch of naked dudes. That’s when I started to ask questions and he shared that as a teenager he and a friend 69’ed eachother, a male friend. Said that the friend asked him and he went along with it but felt ashamed and had never told anyone that. This was after marriage. Okay so no big deal, it’s common to have one homosexual experience in youth right? The days go on and things are fine. He expresses lots of interest in anal which I hate. Always asking me to take the anal and I say over and over it hurts and I don’t like it. Eventually saying I’ll let you if you let me! Which he says no way! Okay cool. Finally I ask what’s the deal with anal? Why are you so obsessed with having sex with my ass? Are you into dudes? He finally shares that he isn’t opposed to dudes and could be bi. He said an ex licked his butt once and he liked it. Okay…so we start experimenting with me doing a finger and when I didn’t like that, I ultimately purchased some buttplugs for him as a way to be supportive. I don’t like anal on me because it hurts and actually I don’t like it at all from a hygiene standpoint, it’s just a big turnoff. So the butt plugs were great because it was hands free. It made me nervous how he was so opposed to butt stuff on him (when he’d pester me) and now he was suddenly okay with it. Things went on like that for a while and it was great! Just doing the butt plugs on him. He’d ask, if you were comfortable, would you wanna do it on you? And I said no that even if it didn’t hurt, I find it gross. Eventually, he started looking at strap ons and that’s when it all went to hell with us. I used my dildo on him and the response, I’ve never seen him like that before during our sex. If I stick a finger in during a BJ or HJ he will instantly cum. I know the males have their G spot there and whatever but it just really started to feel like he might be closeted to the max…he finally admitted that he is BI! After I had to prod and prod and prod forever. So now we’re here. He says he is not interested in being with anyone else and doesn’t even need the butt stuff, that he’s just kinda flexible. We have two kids and we’re married, been together 5 years.

He thinks he was sexually assaulted as a boy but can’t confirm. He says he’s open to therapy. I can’t help but worry myself to death, that while I believe him now, he may start to lean more towards the male side. He says he just realized he’s bi after all these talks we’ve had but I can’t help but think that’s a lie. He did oral with a boy at 12, his first sexual experience. He was probably raped. He has watched gay porn. His issues surrounding sex with me at the beginning and still now sometimes he has ed it seems like or it’ll take forever. He never really compliments me, he’s not very romantic. We’re the stereotypical “best friends.” We do have sex like everyday though.

I guess my fear is that in 10 years he will come out as gay and then what? I’m so scared. Please help me. Does it seem like he could be closeted gay? I should also say that I am not to tell anyone of his encounter or that he’s “newly” bi. His parents are religious, judgemental, and conservative. Do you think he always knew? He was in the military for 9 years…he does have flamboyant tendencies. He certainly has a feminine side that I’ve grown to appreciate. I love him so much I’m just not even sure I’m cool with being in a MOM. I’m worried that I’ll never be enough. He has expressed interest in swinging (in another life it sounds fun he says)

I feel like he was abused and has been depressed all his life because of his suppression. His possible abuser had confirmed to have raped on other child at the time, in the family. He’s in prison now. And the abusers son ultimately killed himself after several stints in the mental hospitals. I’m wondering if he was sexually abused too.

Another helpful piece of information hopefully, my husband has a long string of short term relationships with women. Says he never had sex with or did anything with a man other than the time as a teen. At one point he had a GF who was really into anal and one GF who said one of the reasons she left was because he was soooo into it, they were together 3.5 years and it was his longest relationship besides me. At one point he did have low free T 4 as well. Not sure if he still does

Ugh. Please Sean, help. Could he just be bi and never have sex with a man and be happy like that? Monogamous, with me? He came out as bi like I said after lots of prodding, after our second child was born, and at the age of 32.

Last edited by Afraidwife (December 18, 2024 12:02 pm)

Thank you everyone for writing and a very Merry Christmas. 

In response to MGMommy: 

1. Why did my gay ex-husband start to do things with his new partner that he would not do with me? Things he says he hated? Little things like go to a street fair, or bigger things, like go to visit NYC? He also quit smoking for this new partner & no amount of concern and begging from me would ever make him even consider putting down cigarettes.

I'm so sorry for your pain friend. He probably did these things because he was in the flush of gay adolescent love. After coming out, I reverted to an adolescent state of puppy love during which I would have done anything for/with my first boyfriend. If your ex-husband's experience in any way mirrors my own, he was probably acting like a 13-year-old gay boy with his first crush...not a mature middle-aged man. 

2. I moved on with my life & despite a horrible divorce process & my own feelings- I made sure to foster our children’s relationship with their father. I even got them a (flip) cell phone at a young age so they could call him freely without me as an intermediary. I had hoped for friendship with my ex but it is clear he did not want that. So I let that go. I think he hates me & in a pathetic way, how I miss the friendship I thought we had…

This must have been incredibly painful. Perhaps your ex-husband doesn't hate you but rather hates the (straight) person he pretended to be for so many years and he felt the need to reject you as a form of f*cked up coping mechanism. 

3. Anyway, we separated in 2008, divorced in 2010. I found out from both of our adult children @2021-23 (they each told me on their own without their sibling present)  that I was the butt of the joke - the subject of ridicule and mocking - behind my back for years. The kids told me that my ex’s partner, to his credit, would say that’s enough & not in front of your kids to him. Meanwhile, I thought we were all living at let live. I never bothered him unless it was about the kids & when my youngest turned 18 (she is 20 now) I stopped nearly all communication. I developed excellent boundaries due to my work on myself in a 12 step program & therapy. What is the point of being so nasty & mean? He destroyed my life & then went on his merry way while I was completely devastated & had to pick up the pieces…and I did pick up those pieces and re-made myself! Why the smear campaign? It’s illogical. It seems NUTS.

While closeted I too tended to mock others and lash out. As my mother said, "You were really hard to be around." Turning now to your situation, a more honest and self-aware (gay) ex-husband would acknowledge his own mistakes and apologize. Only the weak mock/criticize others in my opinion. Clearly your children and your ex-husband's partner understand that what he was doing was wrong. But I do understand the pain. You're so very lucky that you moved on with your life my friend.  

In response to Afraidwife:

1. So when my husband and I got together he initially love bombed me pretty hard. After about two months I was in love with him and began to reciprocate the affection in the way that he was. It was honestly a red flag how strong he came on at the beginning. I sold my house and moved in with him so when I began to see the red flags, I was trapped already. Suddenly he started not wanting sex at all, turning me down and not initiating. Wouldn’t go down on me or even touch me or look at me during sex. He’d be staring at a wall or the tv, eyes totally glazed over, not even there. He would even fall asleep during sex. No kissing or cuddling, acted like he hated me honestly. Would turn down blow jobs. Hated period sex. Totally disassociated. My friends mentioned in the beginning that the love bombing was a red flag and even asked, is he gay? When I’d talk about the sexual issues. I thought NO WAY! Eventually he shared he had no libido and was on antidepressants, but he still managed to watch porn and then turn me down. I call bullshit on the low libido if he’s able to jerk off to porn before I get home from work. So then he gets off his antidepressants, we make a sex schedule, I put a filter on his phone so he can’t watch porn, and it seems to get better. He was very avoidant attachment and it’s gotten so much better. He also may have ASD and has ADHD. He’s much more open and honest but only when asked questions and he has lied to me before…

Understood. As I've shared here for years, the biggest red flag with questioning/closeted husbands is a total lack of sexual interest in women. Moreover, I ache that society makes it her responsibility to maintain a healthy sex life. It takes two! 

2. Then one day we were sharing fantasies and mine was a gangbang, he expressed that he would be into it which surprised me because most men aren’t willing to share I feel like and most straight men don’t wanna be around a bunch of naked dudes. That’s when I started to ask questions and he shared that as a teenager he and a friend 69’ed each other, a male friend. Said that the friend asked him and he went along with it but felt ashamed and had never told anyone that. This was after marriage. Okay so no big deal, it’s common to have one homosexual experience in youth right?

Another red flag in my opinion. Has anyone really only smoked one cigarette or eaten just one cookie? No. In these situations I often suggest straight wives adopt a x8 approach. This means that if he admits to 1 affair to a man, it's likely more than 8 for example. 

3. The days go on and things are fine. He expresses lots of interest in anal which I hate. Always asking me to take the anal and I say over and over it hurts and I don’t like it. Eventually saying I’ll let you if you let me! Which he says no way! Okay cool. Finally I ask what’s the deal with anal? Why are you so obsessed with having sex with my ass? Are you into dudes? He finally shares that he isn’t opposed to dudes and could be bi. He said an ex licked his butt once and he liked it. Okay…so we start experimenting with me doing a finger and when I didn’t like that, I ultimately purchased some buttplugs for him as a way to be supportive. I don’t like anal on me because it hurts and actually I don’t like it at all from a hygiene standpoint, it’s just a big turnoff. So the butt plugs were great because it was hands free. It made me nervous how he was so opposed to butt stuff on him (when he’d pester me) and now he was suddenly okay with it. Things went on like that for a while and it was great! Just doing the butt plugs on him. He’d ask, if you were comfortable, would you wanna do it on you? And I said no that even if it didn’t hurt, I find it gross.

He's ticking a lot of gay-in-denial boxes my friend. 

4. Eventually, he started looking at strap ons and that’s when it all went to hell with us. I used my dildo on him and the response, I’ve never seen him like that before during our sex. If I stick a finger in during a BJ or HJ he will instantly cum. I know the males have their G spot there and whatever but it just really started to feel like he might be closeted to the max…he finally admitted that he is BI! After I had to prod and prod and prod forever. So now we’re here. He says he is not interested in being with anyone else and doesn’t even need the butt stuff, that he’s just kinda flexible. We have two kids and we’re married, been together 5 years.

Given his sexual response (instant orgasm), something tells me this isn't his first experience being penetrated. 

5. He thinks he was sexually assaulted as a boy but can’t confirm. He says he’s open to therapy. I can’t help but worry myself to death, that while I believe him now, he may start to lean more towards the male side. He says he just realized he’s bi after all these talks we’ve had but I can’t help but think that’s a lie. He did oral with a boy at 12, his first sexual experience. He was probably raped. He has watched gay porn. His issues surrounding sex with me at the beginning and still now sometimes he has ed it seems like or it’ll take forever. He never really compliments me, he’s not very romantic. We’re the stereotypical “best friends.” We do have sex like everyday though.

It's very common for questioning/closeted husbands to claim "sexual abuse made me gay"; particularly in the face of intense questioning from frustrated wives. So what now? There are two scenarios: first, he was indeed sexually assaulted/abused; second, he's re-writing a consensual sexual experience with another boy as non-consensual because he doesn't want to identify as gay. Regardless, he should attend therapy alone to work through the trauma...whether real or imagined. Couples counselling is not suitable for issues of sexual trauma, although many straight wives try to force him to address these issues in couples counselling. With regards to the frenetic sex of late, enjoy it friend! But please be aware that most people in your situation go through a 3-4 month honeymoon phase during which he tries to prove to himself, and to his frustrated wife, that he's straight through intercourse. If he is more attracted to men than women, sex will eventually level off then stop. 

6. I guess my fear is that in 10 years he will come out as gay and then what? I’m so scared. Please help me. Does it seem like he could be closeted gay? I should also say that I am not to tell anyone of his encounter or that he’s “newly” bi. His parents are religious, judgemental, and conservative.

This would perhaps explain why he's going down the "sexual assault made me like men" route. It's basic conversion therapy speak. 

7. Do you think he always knew? He was in the military for 9 years…he does have flamboyant tendencies. He certainly has a feminine side that I’ve grown to appreciate. I love him so much I’m just not even sure I’m cool with being in a MOM. I’m worried that I’ll never be enough. He has expressed interest in swinging (in another life it sounds fun he says).

There are many gay men and women in the military. He ticks a lot of boxes my friend: little interest in sex with you; anal fetish; likes to be penetrated; and "flamboyant" as you described him. 

8. I feel like he was abused and has been depressed all his life because of his suppression. His possible abuser had confirmed to have raped on other child at the time, in the family. He’s in prison now. And the abusers son ultimately killed himself after several stints in the mental hospitals. I’m wondering if he was sexually abused too.

Please be mindful that you might be a conclusion (if we work on his trauma he'll be a straight man) looking for proof. I have gay friends who were abused as children. All of them have been out for years and have said to me similar versions of, "I was a gay boy who was abused. I didn't become gay because of the abuse." The only people who still believe sexual abuse can change a person's sexuality are Evangelical Christians. 

9. Another helpful piece of information hopefully, my husband has a long string of short term relationships with women. Says he never had sex with or did anything with a man other than the time as a teen. At one point he had a GF who was really into anal and one GF who said one of the reasons she left was because he was soooo into it, they were together 3.5 years and it was his longest relationship besides me. At one point he did have low free T 4 as well. Not sure if he still does. 

I think it would be safer to assume he has done things with men. He also appears to be moving towards swinging. Rarely does swinging help couples in your situation as the closeted husband often seeks to include only male partners. 

10. Ugh. Please Sean, help. Could he just be bi and never have sex with a man and be happy like that? Monogamous, with me? He came out as bi like I said after lots of prodding, after our second child was born, and at the age of 32.

There are many bisexual men in long-term monogamous relationships (like Alex1984's husband for example). I guess my questions are more about you my friend. Are you happy? Is this relationship sexually satisfying for you? Do you think this relationship is sustainable long-term? Be well! 

Last edited by Sean01 (Yesterday 11:34 pm)

Thank you for writing Afraidwife. 

A few days ago you wrote: I love him so much I’m just not even sure I’m cool with being in a MOM [mixed orientation marriage].

And today wrote: In response to Sean asking if I’m happy, I’m not sure anymore to be honest. I’m tired of this weight. Trying to figure him out. All of it. Truly fatigued in my marriage. For the last 6 months I have cried daily, woken up in the morning and threw up pretty much every day, as well as having several panic attacks. I’m not okay. Editing to add that I’ve actually cried our whole relationship. I’ve always felt he wasn’t really into me. I think I need to sit on this and decide like you said, if it’s what I want anymore.

The above doesn't sound like love to me my friend. One way some straight spouses gain perspective is by asking themselves, "What advice would I give my daughter if she were in the exact same relationship?" Setting aside questions about his sexuality, I think you deserve to be with someone who doesn't make you throw up daily. Feel free to post a reply. Be well!  

Last edited by Sean01 (Yesterday 1:19 pm)