Phoenix,
I deleted many of my responses & will probably delete many more.   This thread is getting off-track.  I'm exhausted.  This site has been so incredibly helpful to me, but I'm feeling very beaten up, right now.  Time to stay away for awhile.

Last edited by jkpeace (Today 11:24 am)

Emerald, you have made your point and made your beliefs quite clear. I'm not sure this particular thread is the appropriate place for it, although this discussion is indeed appropriate for this forum, so long as all views are respected and no one makes personal attacks. If you don't feel you have made your point, or wish to continue this discussion, I would suggest you start a thread in the General Discussion area of this forum.

I would request that other members not reply to Emerald on this thread.

I'm back. I apologize for my absence as I was traveling. I'm not going to respond nor comment on the recent religious posts simply because I believe this thread should remain secular. If you'd like to continue having religious debates, please create a new thread and have at it! All opinions are welcome and respected here, but I would ask that we remain courteous & polite when going back and forth. Thank you and END OF RANT! In response to most recent posts: 

DUPED wrote: 

1. You are asking me to consider being obese for a year as an analogy [to being gay], but that would require me to be something that isn't the norm AND something that isn't what I want at my core...

That's exactly my point my friend: being something we don't want to be while also being something society maligns. I was gay in denial for a reason, because I didn't want to be gay. That's why I dated and (later) married a woman. 

2. ...whereas being gay may not be the considered norm but it IS what you want so the examples are completely different and I can't really compare them. 

I think we have the same opinion but we're arguing it from different perspectives. Just to be clear, I didn't want to be gay. Why would I deliberately choose a life and lifestyle that immediately puts me at a disadvantage, could make me a target of discrimination, and might result in the loss of friends & family. Similarly no one would choose to be morbidly obese and this was the point I was trying to make..but perhaps clumsily. While I can't speak for every gay-in-denial husband, I think the reason I was IN DENIAL was because I just didn't want to be a gay man. I really wanted to be straight. That's why I married a woman, hid my sexuality, then hid my gay porn habit, and finally went to incredible lengths to hide my cheating; all because I didn't want to be a gay man. While I've since come to terms with my sexuality, it's taken me a very long time and a lot of therapy to get here.

3.  A couple of other comments you've made are 'a straight man would never look at gay porn' and that women's intuition is the best indicator- how do you substantiate these when you are neither a straight man or a woman? I think we need to remember to only give advice that we can back up. I agree women's intuition is phenomenal but that's because I have it and it's served me. I also know women who have very little intuition and men who have great intuition!

These are very good points. What I should have written is that gay-in-denial men (like me) normally start cheating virtually through watching gay online porn. I'll be more specific when making similar statements in the future. With regards to women's intuition, point taken! Perhaps I'll just use the gender-neutral term "intuition" from now on. 

4. Sean did have a desire to be gay, it just doesn't add up for me but I don't want to labour it.

I can see the misunderstanding more clearly now. Actually I had ZERO desire to be gay and I can back that up with 30+ years of pretending to be straight while married to a woman. I spent most of my life hiding my sexuality while also hating myself. It seriously f*cked me up and I believe my narcissism was a coping mechanism. As I've shared in previous posts, growing up I saw gay men portrayed as: perverts; pedophiles; purse-carrying jokes; or men dying of AIDS. Why then would I want to be any of these men? So no I didn't want to be a gay man which is why I went to such extraordinary lengths to hide it, namely by marrying a woman.  

5. I'm just conscious that people here are making life changing decisions based on some of the advice here and a gay man saying straight men never look at gay porn doesn't sit right. I agree straight men don't generally but imagine someone comes here having found it once, and that man did actually look out of morbid curiosity and never went there again, then they see that if a man looks at it he is definitely gay.

Again you make a very good point so I'll try not to generalize in the future. However, I do believe there is a huge difference between "one time" and "curiosity" and what brings most women to share here. Most women come here after hearing the "one time" and curious" arguments one time too many. And over the years these same arguments tend to fall apart when she reads graphic text messages or emails sent to sexual partners. I guess my point is that I believe straight wives can justifiably call "bullsh*t" after a husband spends years or even decades watching gay porn, cruising Craigslist, and lying about both. That's more than just one-off curiousity in my opinion. My theory is that takes months or even years for a straight spouse to start playing detective and then post here. I guess I should have made the point that if your husband is living a secret gay life online, you no longer have sex, and his main sexual outlet is fapping to man-on-man porn, you're absolutely entitled to start questioning his sexuality. 

6. Perplexed asked: My husband is registered on a gay hook up site, goes to gay saunas and has occasional massages by gay men who might masturbate him but he claims he is 70% heterosexual and 30% bisexual and is definitely not gay. He does not indulge in sex with these men. We have been married for 30 years, have had a good relationship, with him always wanting more sex than me. Is it possible that what he is saying is true or has he just not got round to accepting the fact that he is gay. I just don't know what to do or believe? I would value Sean's opinion on this.

Thanks for writing Perplexed. Before debating this topic, I'd recommend you get tested for STDs and if you're still having sex, please use condoms because the last thing you want it so catch something. I don't think your husband is hanging around in gay saunas for the stimulating conversation so I'd err on the side of (contraceptive) caution. Now it's certainly possible that your husband is bisexual. For the record, I believe people can be gay, straight, or bisexual. But I don't know your so I won't debate the gay/straight percentages he's provided. I think the most important question is whether this kind of open relationship is working for you. If you're both happy with this kind of arrangement and you're taking the necessary contraceptive precautions (like condoms) to avoid getting a nasty STD, then please continue. If however his extramarital activities are hurting you and your relationship, then it's time to talk about boundaries. Please provide more info if you can as I'm sure your story would help other women. 

6. Lily wrote: hmmm, your whole family is heterosexual is it?  do you really still believe that? Sean, who you are, that comes from your family.  As far as I can work out a very large proportion of gay people have a gay parent and if not then it will be there in your family somewhere close by.

LOL! I can't be 100% sure Lily but all of my immediate family are currently in heterosexual relationships. But who knows? After I came out, no one took me aside for "the talk" but I'll post here if someone eventually comes out of the closet. 

I hope that helps and thanks again for sharing friends. Let's remember to be kind and respectful to one another. We've all suffered enough I reckon. While I do love a good debate, let's keep it civil and secular. Please feel free to post here if you have additional questions. Be well my friends. 

Last edited by Séan (April 14, 2017 1:00 pm)

I'm so sorry you're struggling Lisa. In response to your questions: 

1. What am I dealing with here?  I've gone around and around... gay, bi, asexual, low T, finds me repulsive. 

If your husband is like most gay spouses described in this forum, he's so stuck in the muck of denial that you may never get honest answers. Why should we expect honesty from a man who has lied to himself his whole life? Honesty just isn't a language he understands. What I'm trying to write is that you'll probably never have this conversation: 

You: Are you gay? 
Your husband: Why yes I am. Thank you for asking. 

2. People tell me I may never know.

It's definitely a possiblity.  

3. But it is making me crazy.  I need answers.  I'm not angry. I'm working through the hurt of the rejection and the emotional abuse he has inflicted on me in other ways.  I've asked many times and he always denies it but never as vehemently as a straight man in my opinion.

I'm so sorry this is making you crazy but this is a crazy situation. There is often a turning point in gay/straight relationships when the straight wife accepts her husband is gay, accepts she'll never get an honest confession (nor an apology), and thereby learns to detach from her gay-in-denial husband. You've probably spent many years trying to fix him, fix your relationship, while sacrificing your own needs. This is why I suggest you focus on you. And you can do so by posting here, getting professional help, and sharing your story with friends and family who support you 100%. You are not alone. 

I hope that helps Lisa. Please feel free to write again if I haven't answered your questions. 

Last edited by Séan (April 15, 2017 7:18 pm)

Gay or straight, we'll all been there Lisa. I read a passage in a book recently that made me think about you and the many other brave straight spouses who share here. This isn't a direct quote but I hope you'll get the gist when I paraphrase: 

Straight Spouse: He's cheated on me with other men. He lies. He's emotionally abusive. We no longer have sex. He's distant. And he constantly watches gay porn while hiding it....BUT I STILL LOVE HIM.
Straight Spouse's Sister: What's so loveable about him? 

So what's my point? Looking back, my relationship with a woman was based on a lie. I lied that I was heterosexual. No amount of love, caring, nor effort on her part could change my sexuality. Our marriage was a fiction, a fantasy, a myth because gay/straight relationships simply can't work. Once I accepted I was gay, then began the hard work of coming out, separating, and divorcing. My point is that both spouses claim they love each other but I believe they're in love with a fantasy, not their true broken relationship. Once we accept reality, as you're so bravely doing now Lisa, that's the biggest step in having a better life...separately. I hope that helps my friend but please feel free to write again if you have any questions. 

Last edited by Séan (April 20, 2017 6:23 pm)