Posted by IrisP  February 22, 2017 5:23 pm | #341 |
Sean thanks for your thoughtful response. This thread has honestly given me so much insight. There's so much lying going on that having your unique and honest perspective is a godsend right now.
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Posted by Séan February 22, 2017 6:59 pm | #342 |
No need to thank me Jen and Iris. You and the other straight spouses are the true heroes. I'm just a reformed narc *sshole posting on a forum. I was as bad or even worse than most of the gay-in-denial husbands described here. You all deserved so much better than men like me. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, please feel free to send me your questions.
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Posted by IrisP February 23, 2017 10:33 am | #343 |
Sean, your insight again please. Had an interesting conversation with him last night. He seems to be coming to terms with his sexuality (we are only 4 days from Dday, there is a LOT more discovery to be had, I'm sure). But he's very confused because he says he's also attracted to women. His behavior online and in person leads me to believe he's more gay than he is bi. Could this be a situation of still denying/repressing because (as you mentioned in the beginning of the thread) he hasn't seen good examples of loving gay companionship? He still looks at it just as sex bc of his exposure to so much porn? I know it's just a label and I shouldn't get hung up on it....
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Posted by Séan February 23, 2017 1:42 pm | #344 |
Hi Iris. I hope all is well with you despite the drama. You'll get through it my friend. In reply:
1. Sean, your insight again please. Had an interesting conversation with him last night. He seems to be coming to terms with his sexuality (we are only 4 days from Dday, there is a LOT more discovery to be had, I'm sure).
That's certainly progress. Many husbands remain gay-in-denial until they die. But brace yourself for greater disclosure and a whole lotta truth because the gay-in-denial greatest hits of "it just happened once"; "oral only"; "I was drunk" are complete bullsh*t.
2. But he's very confused because he says he's also attracted to women. His behavior online and in person leads me to believe he's more gay than he is bi.
Agreed. I love this quote: "Who you are speaks so loudly I can't hear what you're saying" Ralph Waldo Emerson.
3. Could this be a situation of still denying/repressing because (as you mentioned in the beginning of the thread) he hasn't seen good examples of loving gay companionship?
In my experience, it was less about finding examples of gay couples, and more about working through decades of denial and self-hatred. Coming out is a slow and painful process, although it can follow a certain pattern:
Stage One: Denial. "I'm not gay! How dare you ask me."
Stage Two: Splitting. This is often when young men and women are gay at college and yet straight acting at home. They split their lives. With the gay husband, he's cheating with other men and yet still thinks of himself as straight. It sounds like: "Yes I have sex with men but I identify as heterosexual." This is usually the conflict stage with the straight spouse who justifiably demands answers, not denials.
Stage Three: Finally out and raging. He finally comes out and goes through a kind of gay adolescence, often with a short and intense first relationship. This may be a time of gay rights, pride parades, and many boyfriends.
Stage Four: Acceptance. Things calm down, he may be in a long-term relationship,
4. He still looks at it just as sex bc of his exposure to so much porn? I know it's just a label and I shouldn't get hung up on it....
So he's claiming, "Porn made me do it!" Um that's bullsh*t. It's up there with, "I was sooo drunk." Does he also watch action movies? So I guess action movies are the reason he goes out and randomly shoots people. I'm not trying to be glib. As I've shared again and again, I can't comment on his state of mind but I'm happy to share my own experience. I think it's quite common that gay-in-denial men use gay porn as a safe same-sex outlet. After all, it's anonymous, has zero risk (of STDs for example), and doesn't require a lot of effort. However, internet porn eventually gets boring because he wants the real thing. It's like watching someone bake cookies on television. What you really want is to eat them, not look at them. Similarly, the gay husband wants to have sex with men, not watch them on a screen his whole life. So the gay porn is a gateway for his true sexuality. But porn didn't make him gay. That's just another excuse. A gay man is wired for intimacy with another man. We're born this way.
I hope that helps Iris. If you have additional questions, please write again.
Last edited by Séan (February 23, 2017 1:47 pm)
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Posted by IrisP February 23, 2017 6:18 pm | #345 |
Is it weird that I'm not mad? I'm definitely shocked and still very much processing and figuring things out. But I'm not mad. I keep reading horrible stories about gay spouses being horribly manipulative and so far, I've been so impressed with my husband's honesty. Yes, he was only honest after he got caught. Yes, there are some holes in his story but frankly, I don't need to hear the dirty details....the outcome (separation/divorce) will be the same whether he tells me every single detail or not. We have 2 young kids and for me, life before him doesn't even exist. It's a distant memory. So I can't say I wish I never met or married him. I was crazy about him and made my family with him. No, I never EVER thought this would Happen. But I'm just trying to take it as an evolving circumstance out of my control. What's done is done and me being angry won't be beneficial to any of us. I am not minimizing anyone else's feelings, just sharing mine. Also kind of wondering if I should expect my feelings to change as we go through this process? Will the claws come out? I'm 2 weeks from discovery and 4 days from confrontation. Right now we are acting like best friends and even talking about how he will come out to his family, if he can tell anyone at work, etc.
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Posted by OutofHisCloset February 23, 2017 9:46 pm | #346 |
Iris, so you're not mad, you're understanding--even though he wasn't honest with you until he "got caught." Did it occur to you yet, Iris, that one reason life is so "reasonable" is that you're still enabling him? You're seeing the problem as your joint problem, as if you are still yoked by more than a legal contract, still a couple. Your enabling him means you're still invested in him. But what happens when you realize that he doesn't feel the way that you do, that "how he will come out to his family" is not your business or or your problem?
Last edited by OutofHisCloset (February 23, 2017 9:51 pm)
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Posted by Séan February 24, 2017 2:54 am | #347 |
Thanks for sharing Outofhiscloset. Hi Iris:
1. Also kind of wondering if I should expect my feelings to change as we go through this process?
Given the very "matter of fact" tone of your first posts Iris, I've always had the impression that you'd approach this a different way than most straight spouses. However, in your post you alluded to being in shock which is common when we experience emotional stress. My (then) wife and I tried to remain friends and friendly during this process. I think she did it in the hope that one day I'd say it was all a mistake and that I still wanted to remain married. We limped along in this friend stage for about 18 months before finally separating. Vicky is an example of a straight spouse who continues to live with her gay husband.
2. Will the claws come out?
Possibly. Anger is a natural and important part of this process. I am a very big believer in the five stages of grief. Because after all the end of a marriage is like a death. So you may or may not feel anger at some point in time.
3. I'm 2 weeks from discovery and 4 days from confrontation. Right now we are acting like best friends and even talking about how he will come out to his family, if he can tell anyone at work, etc.
Post-conflict a honeymoon phase is common in any relationship. I can't stress how important honesty is in a gay/straight relationship so I'm happy he's owning up to his homosexuality. Iris he's very lucky to have such a kind and understanding straight wife as many spouses would kick his sorry *ss to the curb. As I've shared in previous messages, post-discovery a straight spouse has two options: first, she can continue to buy into his bullsh*t excuses and rationalizations about the gay thing. This includes buying into his yarns about being gay because of child abuse (normally a complete lie), curiosity, or (my favourite) the "it just happened once" excuse. Some straight spouses take a second, more forceful, approach. The second approach is when the straight spouse no longer buys into his lies, fully accepts the truth, and doggedly sticks to the facts in the face of his panicked denials. I believe this is the approach you've taken Iris.
You should however remain vigilant. As OutofHisCloset shared, things may change as you decouple. I agree with OutofHisCloset: this is one-sided relationship because it focuses on your gay husband. Over the coming weeks and months, you'll start to gain more and more independence from him which will inevitably change the nature your relationship. While I don't believe your husband is a full-blown narcissist, as evidenced by his reluctant acceptance of the truth, most gay/straight relationships are strikingly similar to narcissist/empath relationships. That means all is well as long as the narcissist is the focus of the relationship. Once the empath starts setting boundaries and making demands, that's when the narc gets uncomfortable and bolts.
Iris please keep posting about your relationship and sharing here. I hope what I've written helps in some small way.
Last edited by Séan (February 25, 2017 3:51 am)
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Posted by IrisP February 24, 2017 11:23 pm | #348 |
Aaaaand that was short lived. I got a guilt ridden lecture tonight about how he's been struggling with this "porn addiction" for so many years and now that he can finally admit it, I'm leaving him. Lest we forget that him admitting it was only after he was caught cheating on me with random men from CL...... He now says "I'm not sure if it's even a sexuality thing or more just an extension of what I've seen and wanted to try." *eye roll* Yup, you were right and I'm quickly saddened to be wrong. Wth, though?! Literally 2 days ago we were talking about the people he would or would not come out to. Yet now I'm unsupportive bc I won't ignore the gay....
Last edited by IrisP (February 24, 2017 11:29 pm)
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Posted by Rob February 25, 2017 1:21 am | #349 |
Irisp,
So sorry. I came to this board in 2015 (different board then). I think it was kel and others who told me what my then wife would do..to protect myself and the kids.
I was like no..she loves me...she would never hurt me like that. She would never do that to the kids..
How wrong I was. How innocently wrong. How right they were. She was cheating, had contacted a lawyer and was shopping for houses. And she would hurt me and take the kids away..torch and burn.
I personally take no pleasure in telling you've only seen the tip of the iceberg. Detach, protect yourself and your kids.
May God give you strength and protect you.
A sincere ehug (virtual but authentic)
"For we walk by faith, not by sight .." 2Corinthians 5:7
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Posted by Séan February 25, 2017 5:39 am | #350 |
Thanks Iris and Rob for sharing. If you are new to this thread, Iris recently confronted her gay-in-denial husband about watching (supposedly gay) porn, hooking up with other men on Craigslist, and then lying about both. Iris just shared:
1. Aaaaand that was short lived. I got a guilt ridden lecture tonight about how he's been struggling with this "porn addiction" for so many years and now that he can finally admit it, I'm leaving him.
This would certainly put your husband in "narcissist" territory. Narcissists are the kind of people who step on your toes repeatedly while blaming you for "always putting your feet in the way." In short, they are always the victims, while still being at fault.
2. Lest we forget that him admitting it was only after he was caught cheating on me with random men from CL...... He now says "I'm not sure if it's even a sexuality thing or more just an extension of what I've seen and wanted to try."
This is just narcissistic spin. What's most troubling is that he truly believes what he's saying. Few watch an action movie or play video games and want to drive recklessly, shoot people, or blow things up. Only someone prone to violence would do such things. If I remember correctly, he first tried to say that he watched just straight and lesbian porn. So I can only assume the story has changed and he's now admitted to watching gay porn? Again, it's one thing to watch a gay porn video from time to time. However, it's completely different to claim that gay porn forced him to spend hours secretly arranging hook ups with other men. The more logical explanation is that he's gay, used porn as a sexual outlet, and when that wasn't enough he moved into real-world hook ups via Craigslist.
3. *Eye roll* Yup, you were right and I'm quickly saddened to be wrong. Wth, though?! Literally 2 days ago we were talking about the people he would or would not come out to. Yet now I'm unsupportive bc I won't ignore the gay....
This sounds a bit like the Jekyll and Hyde syndrome I went through post-discovery. It was a period of feeling great about being out of the closet, followed by overwhelming fear about the consequences (like separation and divorce). Your brutal honesty has forced your husband of our his narc fantasy world which sounds a lot like, "I have sex with men but I'm not gay." He's a bit exposed so he'll try to go back to the familiar safety of his lies, rationalizations, and playing the victim.
I'm not quite sure where I'm going with all of this Iris so perhaps Rob and others can provide more concrete advice. If your husband is like most gay-in-denial men who marry women, he's built his entire existence around one secret: "I'm gay." He even went so far as to marry a woman and have children to hide it. That level of crazy doesn't go away overnight. His secret is now out and he's scared. He's like that squirrel in the Chevy Chase movie "Christmas Vacation" darting around the house, breaking things, and desperately looking for an exit.
Your husband is just starting to deal with the emotional and psychological issues that inevitably surface in a situation like this. In essence, he's drowning. I'd recommend you focus on yourself and your children Iris because he's flailing around right now and wants to pull everyone down to the bottom with him. So you have a choice: stick with him and sink, or get away and let him learn to swim on his own. I hope that isn't too harsh my friend.
Please keep posting here, perhaps by starting your own thread. I'd also suggest you talk to friends, family, or a mental health professional to ensure you're getting the help you need at this critical time in your gay/straight relationship.
