Amicable relationships

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Posted by HereInMpls2717
January 16, 2023 1:28 pm
#1

I avoided this forum for a long time because of the pervasive negativity I've seen here. I understand the anger and pain. I've experienced it. I'm still experiencing it. I really do relate and understand. 

That said, my LW didn't choose our situation. Not really. Yes, she knew she was attracted to women at an early age. She also knew it was considered sinful and wrong. She knew she'd been taught that no one could actually be gay, it was just a temptation she had to overcome. And she was promised that if she "obeyed the bible", got married, had kids and lived a "holy" life those feelings would go away. She'd be redeemed. She'd be rewarded with happiness and love. So she pursued me as much as I pursued her. When I asked her to marry me, she happily said yes. 

Guess what? Those who taught such things were liars. We got married at 20, we had 6 kids, we lived the life we were supposed to. It never worked because we were mismatched. We were "unequally yoked" for the Christians out there. Not an sinner and a believer, but a man and a lesbian. That doesn't work, believe it or not 

We've finally accepted things. We can both see how badly this is destroying each of us. It's sad. It's experiencing the death of your spouse in a sense, while seeing them walking around and living every day. It's surreal and horribly painful, but better than the weeks where I kept finding myself thinking it would be better if I wasn't here anymore.

We're pursuing separation and divorce, and we're remaining friends and co-parenting our kids. It'll be awkward and messy at times, but we're committing to kindness, compassion and supporting each other through it. We still love each other. We still like each other. Her being gay doesn't change that. My view is that I can't blame her for something she didn't understand and couldn't have known, even if it's blowing up my life and I'm in the worst emotional pain I can imagine. Thankfully she didn't use this to hurt me- that makes all the difference.

I don't fault anyone for their anger and pain. I'm just trying not to surround myself with that because it won't help me. If anyone would like to talk about amicable relationships with your current or former gay spouse, I'd love to hear from you. 

If it's not obvious- I don't need comments about how it'll never work, how bad everything will be, etc. That's all over the forum. I'd prefer to keep this thread free of that, if you don't mind. 

 
Posted by lily
January 16, 2023 4:26 pm
#2

Hi

Glad to hear you are both accepting the incompatibility and moving towards separation.

Sorry to hear of your pain.  As you say, we do understand that here.

Divorce is pretty horrible, and you only get to do it once - there's no take back clause where you say, oh I should have been the one to keep the car, can you give it back to me please.  The financial affects of divorce are obviously going to be serious however you go - you are dividing what was previously one pot into two.  

If you can keep an eye on that - a fair separation of any assets so that you are getting your fair share as well as her - that's only going to help provide a stable ground for any future friendship on the other side of divorce.

wishing you all the best, Lily.  

 

Last edited by lily (January 16, 2023 4:32 pm)

 
Posted by Anon2222
January 16, 2023 4:54 pm
#3

I understand where you are coming from, but you also have a situation where you had a lot of religious oppression in your relationship, as well as your wife not intending to hurt you. It does make a difference.

My spouse had a very supportive upbringing, has a sibling who is bi and in a poly marriage, has had full support since coming out, you name it. And he lied to me for over a decade. As well as admitted to me that the last few years he used me as a cover, so he could accept himself and decide what he wanted (and there was never any discussion before he said "I'm gay and I'm divorcing you" and then walked out). We were married shy of 20 years. It was a huge shock to find out that apparently the entire thing was a bit of a sham and I was the only one who believed it. It's not nice finding out you were used.

I have had my moments. And yes, I very much hate what he did to me. And I am still recovering from being a shell of who I was. But, we do actually remain relatively amicable.

He has been supportive in me keeping the house (and my horde of pets), as well as helped out around the house with things that needed to be done after he moved out. He drove me to a surgery I had done. He sent me flowers when my (our) dog passed away at Christmas.

I struggle still with emotions, hurt, grief, you name it but he has also been good about letting me vent as needed. He has apologized multiple times for his actions, which hasn't really helped a ton, but it is better than the alternative. I am slowly learning what boundaries I have to put in place in order to protect myself and what information I can and can't handle. 

I don't know if we will ever really be close friends or anything, but we treat each other fairly and as we're progressing through the divorce process we have been amicable about what each of us wants and needs. I hope it continues this way, as it is a heck of a lot less stressful than other stories I have seen.

So, I believe it is definitely possible to remain amicable, but it's also good to get out all the pain and emotions too. I have made posts about how angry and hurt I am, simply because no one else in my life would understand. And here, people get it. But, I also don't demonize my gay husband. I think he is a very flawed individual, who has a lot to work out in himself, but I have no desire to be vindictive (but I am by no means perfect).

Honestly, this whole thing really is the mind fuck of the century. I have never felt like this ever. The rollercoaster, the pain, the vast changes in my life.......but, I am started to feel a bit better in the sense that I'm having more good days than bad. We still chat via text on and off and I send him pictures of the dogs. I'm not sure what the future holds but I also know I'm just too old and too tired to hold on to what happened forever and all I can do is keep going.

Good luck! 

 
Posted by Ellexoh_nz
January 16, 2023 6:54 pm
#4

HereInMpls2717 wrote:

I avoided this forum for a long time because of the pervasive negativity .... 

Welcome to our Forum Mpls. I get that....I was in the same spot as you and thought about retreating/not posting here because almost everybody was telling me I would leave/I should leave/there's no hope/save yourself.
But I needed to hear the negative as well as the positive to discover where I sit on the Mindfuck curve. So I stuck around, got some good advice, some not so good and some irrelevant to my situation. Because many of us are on the same journey but none of the circumstances are ever exactly the same but I can still appreciate what another staightspouse is going through.

I myself have a bisexual partner, raised in a catholic family, who now refuses to talk about anything to do with the mess that is our 38yr r'ship (never married, didn't need the piece of paper)....so I'm envious of your ability to communicate with your partner. We have now settled in a amicable living together. I don't know how long it'll last, I'm simply living day to day. We get on well. We, well I, thought we had built an awesome life that was heading towards a retirement still held together by love and respect and I suppose we still have that but we no longer sleep in the same bed (it's actually been SO good) are no longer intimate. We have 4 children (2 from my 1st marriage), all adults, all supportive of my situation but none of them is game to open a conversation with my partner about it. Meh....not my problem. I have enough demons in my head...lol

Can I ask....what made you change your mind about delving in to the Forum and introducing yourself?

Elle
 


KIA KAHA                       
 
Posted by ImSoConfused
January 17, 2023 5:07 am
#5

I understand what you are saying. Everything I read in here scares the hell out of me. My husband is deep in denial although he has had 2 affairs with men.
When I tell people that my heart breaks for him as much as it does for me, they look at me like I'm insane. "Where's your anger? Get mad! If you can get mad, you'll move on faster!" It kinda makes me feel like I'm not doing this right.
I'm not angry..I'm sad. I don't WANT to divorce. I love him. But it's not living a truth. Being married is a lie. Leaving something I never wanted to leave makes me sad.  I'm so full of sadness over the fact that he did this. That my children's lives are destroyed. That my future is over. That I don't know what my past is. But I'm sad because there was a part of him (southern Baptist/military child) that told him YEARS ago "THIS IS BAD. FIX IT!!" And he struggled to fix it- and he found me as part of the solution.
Now, I do have resentment about how he's treated me all these years. He loves me, I know, but he hasn't been exactly nice. He's ignored us. He's let me raise the children alone. He's made them feel like he doesn't like being with them. He's popped in and out of our family time on his schedule. THAT I can get mad about.
But the part of him that didn't want to be this was... The part where he was told it was terrible... The part that, now that I HAVE found this out is leaving and taking the kids.... That part I'm still sad about. Because he told himself it was a bad part of him and now that someone else found out about it- look what happened. His life ended. I'm basically validating his greatest fear. I'm driving him further into the closet.
So I'm really sad for him. And when I say that to the few people that know what happened, they say, you'll get there. You'll get angry.
I don't want to be angry. It feels like an exhausting emotion and it feels overwhelming. I want peace. I want amicable.
I'm telling him tomorrow that we need to divorce. I don't know how he's going to handle it. There have been a lot of tears from me over the months. He's held me while I've cried. I don't THINK that's been a manipulation. I think it comes from the love he has for me. He's said multiple times, "I don't know how to fix this, but maybe the only way is for me to remove the thing that's hurting you. And that's me"
I'm not sad to lose my husband, but I am sad to lose my friend. I'll miss our dinners out. I'll miss our TV watching. I used to say, "I love sitting on the couch and not talking to you." I'll miss just being present in his life.
If you have advice for how to talk with him so that we can still be friends, I'm open. It may not work. My aunt tells me that I'll probably start out that way and change my mind over time.... I don't like to think that's the case. I'd like to do birthdays together and have him over for dinner with the kids. I'd like to sit together at volleyball games and call to ask for help with pickups. I don't want mean. I'm not mean. I think if I had to think I was facing an adversary every day for the rest of my life, I might crumple and die.

Last edited by ImSoConfused (January 17, 2023 5:12 am)

 
Posted by Blackie563
January 17, 2023 7:51 am
#6

HereInMpls2717 wrote:

I don't fault anyone for their anger and pain. I'm just trying not to surround myself with that because it won't help me. If anyone would like to talk about amicable relationships with your current or former gay spouse, I'd love to hear from you.  

 Hey - I think you have one of the more straight forward cases. If you believe your LW is being upfront and honest, and committed to open and honest communication, it will absolutely work. I have zero doubt of that. That was the path I started on. Mine went another direction only because she wasnt honest. As I said, as long as she continues to engage with you regularly, and you're both honest about your feelings (pain, anger etc) I see no reason you won't have a long term friendship/co-parenting situation..

Good luck - truly. I hope it works out for you both. 

 
Posted by HereInMpls2717
January 17, 2023 3:51 pm
#7

I hope it's straight forward. We frequently have problems with communication. It's not a wonderful situation by any means, but I hope it'll have a good result. Thanks for your well wishes!

 
Posted by HereInMpls2717
January 17, 2023 4:06 pm
#8

At first, I eagerly embraced her. I thought it would bring us closer, now that she could be open with me. And I guess it did for a few weeks. She started to push me away, reject me, treat me badly, accuse me of things and project all kinds of stuff she herself was feeling and struggling with.

I promptly got into therapy once a week. I was angry, so deeply hurt, confused, still stubbornly hopeful though. I found this forum at that point and read so many comments that were intensely angry. I couldn't read that and not give in to that in myself, so for my own protection and my family, I couldn't seek support here.

It's been two years. She has finally determined that she's 100% lesbian. I've processed through some of my anger and I need support from people who understand. I've been almost 100% isolated in this situation, aside from my therapist. So it's partly my growth in working through my own anger, and partly the need to be seen by people who understand.

This level of confusion and pain is unbearable most of the time, you know? While I'm committed to trying to make this the best situation I can for my kids, and eventually us I hope, I struggling every day. Actually, i'm usually hopeless and grieving, but I'm trying.



Ellexoh_nz wrote:

HereInMpls2717 wrote:

I avoided this forum for a long time because of the pervasive negativity .... 

Welcome to our Forum Mpls. I get that....I was in the same spot as you and thought about retreating/not posting here because almost everybody was telling me I would leave/I should leave/there's no hope/save yourself.
But I needed to hear the negative as well as the positive to discover where I sit on the Mindfuck curve. So I stuck around, got some good advice, some not so good and some irrelevant to my situation. Because many of us are on the same journey but none of the circumstances are ever exactly the same but I can still appreciate what another staightspouse is going through.

I myself have a bisexual partner, raised in a catholic family, who now refuses to talk about anything to do with the mess that is our 38yr r'ship (never married, didn't need the piece of paper)....so I'm envious of your ability to communicate with your partner. We have now settled in a amicable living together. I don't know how long it'll last, I'm simply living day to day. We get on well. We, well I, thought we had built an awesome life that was heading towards a retirement still held together by love and respect and I suppose we still have that but we no longer sleep in the same bed (it's actually been SO good) are no longer intimate. We have 4 children (2 from my 1st marriage), all adults, all supportive of my situation but none of them is game to open a conversation with my partner about it. Meh....not my problem. I have enough demons in my head...lol

Can I ask....what made you change your mind about delving in to the Forum and introducing yourself?

Elle
 

 

 
Posted by HereInMpls2717
January 17, 2023 5:03 pm
#9

Dear ImSoConfused,

I'm so very sorry you're going through this. Your story sounds somewhat familiar, especially the pain and fear. I told her again last night- I don't WANT a divorce. I don't want to be without her. I want to wake up every day to her, all of that. But as you said, it isn't truth. It hurts us straight spouses to know we're not wanted or loved the way we've desired and loved them, and that our lives haven't been what we believed them to be, and it hurts our LGBT spouses because they're pretending to be something they aren't and they see the hurt they're causing. I know many believe that LGBT spouses are uncaring about that, but I don't believe that's the dominant scenario.  

There is no right way to do this. That by itself can be scary, but just know that however you work through it is completely fine. I don't know why people think it's helpful to try to predict your process. That isn't helpful at all, even if you do eventually get angry about it. Anger is a feeling, just like sadness and grief. I've found that anger is a protective/defensive emotion, while sadness and grief bring healing. It feels like you might die from grief sometimes but you just have to get through one day at a time and eventually it lessens. I have good days now. The last week I've been spontaneously crying a dozen times a day, sometimes right in front of people. It's the way it is. 

It will help to stop telling yourself that your life is ruined, your kids' lives are destroyed, and you're driving him further into the closet. I promise none of that is true. You'll get through this. We can't see the happiness we'll enjoy after we've gone through this, but it'll be there. If you both can limit animosity between you, that has the biggest impact on your kids. Taking an extended break from each other might help you do that. Regarding your husband and his closet- he's not hiding because of you. He's hiding because of deep shame and fear. You aren't responsible for that. You didn't create his closet. He is the only one who can work through that.

You have to advocate for yourself and your needs. You can be kind and amicable with him, of course! But the hardest thing I've had to learn and continually remind myself is that in this situation, your spouse isn't really a spouse. Legally, sure. But my wife isn't a wife to me. She doesn't even understand what I'm missing out on. I hope one day she'll find someone who loves her and she can love them the way it should be, and she'll look back and realize what I did without for so long. Ultimately that validation doesn't matter, but it would be nice to hear.

I'm finding that my partner can't be consistent right now with anything. Your husband might love you AND he might be volatile and not able to make choices that are in the best interest of you both. I've heard many people say that when a spouse (or anyone later in life, single or otherwise) comes out, it's like they enter adolescence again and only think of themselves for a while. I'm hoping that through couple's counseling with a therapist who helps couples divorce, we'll get though it. Consulting with an attorney might not be a bad idea to get a feel for your situation. Hopefully others can comment on legal matters like mediation, special masters, etc. because I'm not there yet.

You deserve to be loved. You deserve to experience what you hoped marriage would be. You don't deserve what you're going through. I hope you know that, or that you get there soon!




ImSoConfused wrote:

I understand what you are saying. Everything I read in here scares the hell out of me. My husband is deep in denial although he has had 2 affairs with men.
When I tell people that my heart breaks for him as much as it does for me, they look at me like I'm insane. "Where's your anger? Get mad! If you can get mad, you'll move on faster!" It kinda makes me feel like I'm not doing this right.
I'm not angry..I'm sad. I don't WANT to divorce. I love him. But it's not living a truth. Being married is a lie. Leaving something I never wanted to leave makes me sad. I'm so full of sadness over the fact that he did this. That my children's lives are destroyed. That my future is over. That I don't know what my past is. But I'm sad because there was a part of him (southern Baptist/military child) that told him YEARS ago "THIS IS BAD. FIX IT!!" And he struggled to fix it- and he found me as part of the solution.
Now, I do have resentment about how he's treated me all these years. He loves me, I know, but he hasn't been exactly nice. He's ignored us. He's let me raise the children alone. He's made them feel like he doesn't like being with them. He's popped in and out of our family time on his schedule. THAT I can get mad about.
But the part of him that didn't want to be this was... The part where he was told it was terrible... The part that, now that I HAVE found this out is leaving and taking the kids.... That part I'm still sad about. Because he told himself it was a bad part of him and now that someone else found out about it- look what happened. His life ended. I'm basically validating his greatest fear. I'm driving him further into the closet.
So I'm really sad for him. And when I say that to the few people that know what happened, they say, you'll get there. You'll get angry.
I don't want to be angry. It feels like an exhausting emotion and it feels overwhelming. I want peace. I want amicable.
I'm telling him tomorrow that we need to divorce. I don't know how he's going to handle it. There have been a lot of tears from me over the months. He's held me while I've cried. I don't THINK that's been a manipulation. I think it comes from the love he has for me. He's said multiple times, "I don't know how to fix this, but maybe the only way is for me to remove the thing that's hurting you. And that's me"
I'm not sad to lose my husband, but I am sad to lose my friend. I'll miss our dinners out. I'll miss our TV watching. I used to say, "I love sitting on the couch and not talking to you." I'll miss just being present in his life.
If you have advice for how to talk with him so that we can still be friends, I'm open. It may not work. My aunt tells me that I'll probably start out that way and change my mind over time.... I don't like to think that's the case. I'd like to do birthdays together and have him over for dinner with the kids. I'd like to sit together at volleyball games and call to ask for help with pickups. I don't want mean. I'm not mean. I think if I had to think I was facing an adversary every day for the rest of my life, I might crumple and die.

 

 
Posted by lily
January 17, 2023 5:03 pm
#10

okay, so I'll say the thing I want to - it's not negativity it's hopefully helpful for navigating the time ahead of you -

traditionally, since divorce became an option, people have advised that first you end the marriage and then see about the friendship.

This is good advice on so many levels, but in terms of avoiding getting creamed in a divorce settlement, it is key.

It's pretty simple the way it worked for me - my ex suggested I give him a lump sum and in return I could have all the furnishings - everything except the house, we kept our own cars.  I thought okay it's more than it's actually worth but it is worth it because we won't have to argue about who gets what.  Then over the ensuing months it started with, well you can't take the tools, they're mine.  oh yes?  you can't leave me without a set of kitchen utensils.  and oh goodness you can't leave me without a bed or a chair or a tv or a fridge or a washing machine.  On the day I left he had taken my best linen and put it on his bed - I should have taken the linen, bed included but I didn't - still wanting to be his friend.  still unable to see beyond my own generally friendly persona.

 

 


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