Posted by MJM017 July 28, 2019 2:04 pm | #1 |
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Last edited by MJM017 (September 25, 2024 11:04 am)
Posted by OnMyOwnTwoFeet July 28, 2019 5:11 pm | #2 |
This was a beautiful piece of writing. Thanks for posting it here. I read it the other day because it was posted on Chump Lady. The comments on the CL website are just as valuable as the Crane Wife piece from the Paris Review:
https://www.chumplady.com/2019/07/devastating-writing-on-making-your-needs-small/
To all friends here on the SSN--whether you log in regularly or you are a lurking reader: Well worth your time to read the ChumpLady/ChumpNation discussion of this piece. It gets at the core of the pain we deal with as straight partners when our spouses come out. At what point do our needs stop mattering? How much can we accommodate? The answers are different for each couple. Reading the CL comments helped me put my own experience in relief against a broader picture. I think it was one of the most helpful things I've read this past year.
Posted by Ellexoh_nz July 28, 2019 8:48 pm | #3 |
MJM017 wrote:
...https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2019/07/16/the-crane-wife/
Loved this story
Posted by StrongerThanIKnew July 29, 2019 7:28 am | #4 |
I loved it as well and shared it on my FB page.
When I first started counseling, the therapist asked me what I wanted. My attorney asked me the same question, and even my (now) ex did as well. Such a seemingly simple question. What do you want? What excites you? What are your passions, your dreams, your desires?
However, it was impossible to answer. I had long since discarded my dreams and adopted the dreams of my spouse and kids. I have been finding my way back to me, and I like what I'm finding and am determined not to lose myself again. I will no longer accept less than I need. I will not be erased or go extinct.
Posted by OutofHisCloset July 29, 2019 7:40 am | #5 |
I also found it apropos.
StrongerThan, I think that the process you describe of "finding my way back to me" is also made more difficult because we are dealing not just with the pattern of behavior of making our needs small and subordinating ourselves to the needs of others, but with all the effects of living in an MOM (often unknowingly). As the website for the Toronto support group that Daryl posted a link for lists them, these are:
Last edited by OutofHisCloset (July 29, 2019 8:10 am)
Posted by Daryl July 29, 2019 6:07 pm | #6 |
I think this one - One’s own identity crisis - doesn't get enough consideration.
After many years in a relationship, we lose sight of our individuality and can't initially disentangle it from the larger whole.
Posted by StrongerThanIKnew July 30, 2019 8:16 am | #7 |
OutofHisCloset wrote:
I also found it apropos.
StrongerThan, I think that the process you describe of "finding my way back to me" is also made more difficult because we are dealing not just with the pattern of behavior of making our needs small and subordinating ourselves to the needs of others, but with all the effects of living in an MOM (often unknowingly).
Oh, absolutely. Living in a MOM brings it all to an entirely different level, and the type of MOM makes a difference, too. How many of us with trans-identified spouses have found ourselves in the position of taking on the "roles" of the opposite gender in our relationships. Not only are women being made to feel less feminine by their over the top partners/spouses, but many have actually started questioning their own (gender) identity. And in situations where it isn't an unknown MOM, women are forced into living as someone they are not.
Seriously, on one board I read, there is a woman whose husband has transitioned into her wife, and she has been there to support her spouse in every way. So much so, that she has started to "feel" more and more masculine and is now wearing binders and starting to think about transitioning to male. That is some serious erasure.
Posted by OutofHisCloset July 30, 2019 8:47 am | #8 |
Stronger,
OMG. The wife is now thinking of transitioning so that she can serve her spouse as male?!?! That is some serious Stockholm Syndrome!! The effects of the warping of my own sexuality and gendered behavior while with my then-spouse is something I continue to struggle with now that I'm free (divorced and no contact), and it was only after I left that I began to see how insidious and far-reaching it was. I'm 15 months out from moving out, 8 months from divorce, and I still have not yet plumbed the depths of it. I've only recently realized that I was subject to covert and subtle pressures over the course of my marriage, pressures that amped up when my ex, unbeknownst to me for three years, had decided he was trans. I don't even know if what I'm doing is trying to recover a sense of self, because I'm not sure where I'd draw the line of when I was separated from my gendered and sexual self! I think, in fact, that what I'm doing now is re-making that self.
However, I feel so lucky that somewhere inside I have a self protective mechanism that seems to work apart from my conscious efforts, and kicks in when I absolutely need it. It has saved me from myself more than once. I think it's the reason that when my father was abusing me sexually I was able to "send myself away" so that I was present but not present (disassociate). I think it's the reason that although I was subtly manipulated for years, and after the trans reveal was caught up for a while in my ex's sexual fantasy life, my discomfort with it all finally reached the point that mechanism kicked in and I had to stop.
I know there are some on this board who think I'm too strong, or too negative about the possibilities of MOMs succeeding, or get angry with me when I push them, or think I give advice when I should listen and "support" wherever a poster is in his/her journey at the moment. But this example, of a woman who has convinced herself that to "support" her spouse she now needs to remake herself to this extent, together with an understanding of just how I was able to convince myself it was a rational and desirable and positive thing to twist myself in psychological knots to justify to myself what really was self-destructive behavior in myself, is the reason I do and say what I do. Because to me, "support" comes in a number of guises. I understand the necessity and utility of people simply listening; I understand the necessity and utility of sympathetic gestures of the "I hear what you're saying" variety. But without apology I will say that whoever is "supporting" this woman in this delusion is not giving her support, they are supporting her self-erasure in the name of support.
Last edited by OutofHisCloset (July 30, 2019 10:17 am)
Posted by a_dads_straight_journey July 30, 2019 11:03 am | #9 |
Very early after D-day, before the decision to divorce, I recall considering so many alternatives to keep my family together and to keep my children together with their mother. Simply put, any of them would have made me a cuckold with no sense of self or self - respect. I chose to leave, I grieved the divorce, the loss of family, etc. and it HURT like HELL.
As noted in my story, my new wife and I are combining households this year. We closed on the new house in June and are still in the middle of the largest, most complex, and most expensive move of my life but I can say it was all the right call. We’ve already had out of town visitors, my daughter has had sleep overs and we’ve had many of those small moments that feel like family that I can honestly say I didn’t have in my MOM.
Take-away ... as much as my ex wanted to be straight and tried to be straight, she just wasn’t capable of being completely present and that gap affected all of us. While it hurt to leave the shores of the familiar, and there were many storms in the last few years, I believe I’ve arrived at the shores of the authentic, with my self and self respect intact.
ADSJ
Last edited by a_dads_straight_journey (July 30, 2019 11:08 am)
Posted by lily July 31, 2019 3:31 pm | #10 |
wow yes great piece of writing. she is so right about burying our needs. please tell me I'm not the only one who thinks her fiancé is gay.
I know he had an affair with a woman but it strikes me as just the same as what my ex did - it is such a good cover. 'I slept with another woman.' and gets you back into line if you are being too serious about your needs. The truth is he was sleeping with men before he even met me.