Just need input and have no one to talk to (man w/ most likely LW)

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Posted by JustSomeone11
January 28, 2019 11:55 am
#1

Married 12 years, 3 kids (9, 7 and 5), known each other for 20 years.

Very long story short (I can provide more details if requested in order to help me with feedback), 6 years ago, my wife had an affair with her "friend."  It was somewhat long term, because naive me took awhile to start noticing that something was off about the friendship.  Simple things like a girls weekend to the lake was just them, no other friends.  The nights she would go have a few beers with her friend and come home the next morning because "She didn't think it was worth it to drive home after drinking"  Anyways, I found out eventually with hard evidence, the woman happened to be sleeping at our house that night.  She regularly hung out with us, I had helped her out big time on several occasions.  It still burns me to no end that that woman would sit there at my dinner table chatting, eating my food, drinking my beer or liquor, even asking me for favors occasionally, all while she was f'ing my wife behind my back.  Right now I want to punch a hole in the wall typing this.  Anyways, I found out one night and it took every ounce of restraint I had not to go to jail for assault on this woman.  She left the house in the middle of the night.

After that, was a long period of my wife trying to remain in some type of contact with this woman and me shutting it down, until finally about a year and a half ago, all contact ceased.  

Things have been o.k. I do love my wife very much, but obviously I had many questions about all of the above happening.  Of which I've gotten little truths revealed a bit of time over the years.   .. My biggest problem with my marriage is lack of affection.  We will have sex, shes generally into the act itself, .. sometimes I wonder if she's bi but just leans heavily to women.  However, she won't kiss me other than superficial pecks, I am rarely hugged, she doesn't touch me much at all, and she definitely will not touch my junk unless I purposely put her hand there, and then she'll just use her nails sort of to avoid touching with a finger.  I honestly haven't felt like I had someone really love me (as in show affection) in almost a decade now I think.  I think I may have forgot what that feels like, maybe even forgot what a normal relationship is supposed to be like.

Generally, I have been able to maintain a semi-happy existence, telling myself it's not as bad as some other husbands I know who get no sex at all.  2 nights ago though, I got 2 big trickle truths that I don't know if I can deal with and move on.  It came up that the lack of affection was grinding at me and I wanted to talk about if we can come towards any kind of solution.  This eventually led to her getting upset enough to yell out that, it's not her fault that she's gay and she doesn't want to destroy the family.  And 2 mins later after calming down, of course backtracking and saying she doesn't really think she's totally gay, maybe bi on some level.  ... but the other one that I don't know if I can emotionally deal with and stay with her is I asked her point blank if the sex she had with the other woman was reciprocal,  i.e. was it like how it is with us.. I initiate, I do most of the warm up, then she'll join in some, but not really touch me much.. etc.   The answer was no.. she did reciprocate, but that it was "Different"  ... I get that a lot when her relationship with the woman comes up... yea she did it... but it's "Different"  ...She'll tell me if I ever cheat on her with a woman she'll leave.. but if its a man.. she'll be o.k. with it.  Of, course most likely because she knows I would never do that because I'm not gay and she tries everything in her head to make herself feel better about what shes done.

Anyways, I'm now heavily considering filing for divorce.  While I think she wouldn't fight me or be difficult, it will still be messy, as we have a lot of assets and I have business.  I also cannot stand the thought of only being with my three boys 50% of the time.  Also, I get very very angry when I imagine leaving and knowing she'll most likely return to this woman and my 3 boys will be around this woman, who is a staunch LGBT feminist 50% of their lives.  That honestly makes me sick to my stomach and want to vomit.  ....I'm waffling like one of those blow up punching bags for kids, .. I fly from one end to the other every 5 mins.  Can I deal with all of the above, can I just let it lie in the past and be there for my kids, at least until they head to college or is it too much... am I damaging myself psychologically... I'm probably already damaged, so does it matter.  She's already shut down the idea of an open marriage, which confuses me... the whole concept of why she even cares so much about if I were to have sex with another woman confuses me.  I thought she would have at least considered it, but both times I brought it up was a hard no.  

One of the hardest things of the last 2 days, is I started imagining what my life might look like if I were divorced.  The mess of dating again at the age of 42.  And then I imagined being in a new relationship, someone that wanted to touch me, having someone grabbed me and gave me a big kiss...   and then I had a complete break down... because it scared me... the thought of someone showing me affection scared me.  Like I wouldn't know what to do or how to react.  What kind of ****ed up is that?  After I regained myself.. i thought jesus, can I ever be normal?  If I leave, is it pointless?  Can I even return to a normal relationship again?

So, as of today, she knows I am very unhappy.  We aren't really speaking the last 2 days.  I need time to think or let it settle in what I must do.  

If you got this far, thanks for listening.  I have no siblings and this just isn't something you can just bring up with friends.  

 

Last edited by JustSomeone11 (January 28, 2019 1:42 pm)

 
Posted by OutofHisCloset
January 28, 2019 1:58 pm
#2

Hey Someone,
   Good that you found us and have a place to tell you story and to unload the conflicting feelings and self-doubts.  Sometimes just writing it down for someone else to read helps bring a little clarity.
   What you've said about your fears and your experience is likely to ring true for many of us, whether we're in your specific situation (lesbian wife) or not, because a lot of our spouses' behavior follows a pattern.  For example, your wife minimizing her cheating on you with a woman as ok but refusing to open the marriage for you.  It's also not unusual for the gay/lesbian/trans spouse to leave the leaving to us, although they are making it clear to us they are not committed to us or the marriage.  But I'm sure some of the men on the site will soon engage with you about their experiences and feelings, and what you might expect to see or have to do.
   I can say, though, that yes, living in the situation you're in does you psychological damage; and no, you are not "too damaged" for a future relationship and might as well stay where you are.  I'll also say that I have read elsewhere that although our default is often to stay for the kids, we need to reframe that as LEAVE for the kids.  They are marinating in the toxic atmosphere in your home; they see the dynamic between you.  It would be a good thing for you to consult with a lawyer just to find out what your options are likely to be should you initiate divorce.  

 
Posted by JustSomeone11
January 28, 2019 2:12 pm
#3

Hi Closet,

Thank you for taking the time to respond.  It does indeed help to just type it out, it forces you to organize your thoughts and make some decisions based on how you word your story.

I am hoping to hear from someone that did in fact move on to a healthy relationship, the person that directed me here (just a blog post I read, never interacted with him) for example is still struggling with this many years after divorce. After I read his post, I thought.. my god.. what have I done to myself.  

Your point about the children is well taken, I know this myself.  Over the years, I went on a mission of improving myself, I thought for awhile I was just a lazy bad husband and that's why she wasn't attracted to me anymore.  I joined a forum for men called the red pill/married red pill that focuses on improving yourself as a function to improve your marriage.  I still subscribe to all that, yet.. it never improved what I wanted/needed most.  This group is also very clear that staying for the children is usually not the right choice.  It doesn't make it suck any less though.

 
Posted by OnMyOwnTwoFeet
January 28, 2019 2:24 pm
#4

I am so sorry to read this, and I know the awful feelings you mention--the anger, the sadness, the depression at just wanting to be loved, and also the weirdness of wondering if I can ever feel loved--or ever open myself up to physical or emotional love again.  The fear of losing my children. And more.

I want to say--super duper important!  I am a very even tempered person. Really:  just very patient and even.  However, the stress of just trying to hold things together--to pretend--sometimes I lose it and I burst out.  I yell.  I lose my temper.  It is all out of proportion.  I yelled at my adult daughter one day--it was such a hard moment.  I apologized to her afterward.  But it did some damage to our relationship.  Meanwhile, I had to just eat it and explain, "I was messed up."  After all, it really was me who lost my temper.  I am also dropping the ball and letting my younger kids down in some ways, like getting them shoes that fit their growing feet, following up on school things, etc.  I end up apologizing to them a lot.  And to people I work with, etc.  The stress of feeling the full pain of it all, and then being alone in that stress, and not being able to explain why--it just adds to the stress.

SO--and I know I don't know you and I do not mean to in any way seem judgemental.  This all comes from concern for you:  What really really concerns me about your message is how you feel sometimes like being physically violent.  I am NOT saying you have a problem.  I think it is awesome how you are managing.  And I absolutely relate because I am having a hard time keeping myself together.  It is so so so hard.  However, I am also worried for you.  If you ever cross that line--with your wife, or with your kids--then your wife has this to use against you.  It is like we tell our kids at school--it doesn't matter how much that other kid was teasing you, if you hit that kid, then you will be the one that the system sees as the problem.  I saw this happen in two relationships in my neighborhood: The spouse who was having an affair angered the unsuspecting spouse, set them off, and then the unsuspecting spouse lost control, and the affair spouse called the police.  In one of the cases, it appeared that the husband actually set up his wife on purpose, and she (tiny thing) slapped him (big guy), and he as part of his plan quickly called the police.  She was removed from her home and children, and the man's affair partner moved in, and it took a few months for the mom to be back in her home with her young children and get the husband out.  So:  things eventually went well for the woman but it was gut wrenching. For the other neighbor, where it was the man who lost his temper, though--things did not go so well for him.  There are biases in our system.  Please please take care of yourself and find ways to be absolutely sure you keep calm, especially physically.  Have a plan to leave the room.  Find a counselor right away.  Consult with a lawyer right away.  Find a friend to confide in right away.  This should help you feel less trapped and ease the stress somewhat.  And I again apologize if I seem to be judging you. 
 

 
Posted by JustSomeone11
January 28, 2019 2:46 pm
#5

Hi TwoFeet,

Thank you for your thoughtful response and concern.  I am even tempered as well.  I have never been physically violent towards a woman or my children.  Its only the thought of the level of disrespect heaped on by the other woman, that pushes me to feel so much venom.  If I was going to hit her, it would have been that night.  I haven't seen her in 3.5 years.  I know many of you are dealing with opposite situations, but I imagine in many of those situations... the husband keeps the other man very secret, probably making sure no one in the family has ever heard of him. Once you suspect, you may know who he is, but that's about as far as it goes.  In my situation, this woman was our friend.  She had dinner with us, went to fairs/festivals with us, is in many family pictures from the past, I drove my family to the hospital in the middle of the night to see her when she got in a bad car accident. Imagine looking back at your family during that time.  Meanwhile, my wife is leaving me with the kids while she goes on mini vacations with her while they give each other the very thing I need so badly.  The level of disrespect and balls to do such a thing is unimaginable to me.  Sure my wife was a part of it but for the other woman to see me and hang with my family and everything knowing what she was doing that I had no clue about,... I'm not sure it really can get much worse than that.

Last edited by JustSomeone11 (January 28, 2019 2:49 pm)

 
Posted by lily
January 28, 2019 6:13 pm
#6

just curious - why do you feel the girlfriend is being worse than your wife?

I relate to the horrible feelings about it, when I woke up to my ex being gay in denial it wasn't long before I realised he wasn't the only one.  Our closest friends, when we were young and getting married were a couple who were a closet bi/lesbian and the man my ex fell in love with as a teenager.  They all had a shared past.  Not me.  And somehow neither of them ever felt like asking me did I know my ex was gay?  It was horrible to realise that.  Didn't they care about me at all?

Denial doesn't mean don't know it means not telling and it seems to be just the way they are.  A sort of unquestioning self-entitlement.  Don't burst my bubble my ex would complain if I wanted to push for a talk.

Just take it step by step and work out what your options are bit by bit - take time to think about it all.  Even though you're not feeling ready for it yet, you can still have a good future.

wishing you all the best, Lily

 
Posted by walkbymyself
January 28, 2019 6:39 pm
#7

Someone:  no advice but boy do I empathize.

I’m in the same boat, trying to imagine being in a new relationship. I have been made to feel unsexy and (forgive the language) unfuckable for so long I don’t know how I would ever manage in a sexual relationship. I’m trying so hard to extract myself from this marriage I think my biggest fear is that I might just get into an equally miserable situation.


Relinquere fraudator, vitam lucrari.
 
Posted by Daryl
January 28, 2019 6:56 pm
#8

All the options suck because they involve some sort of sacrifice. On the other hand think about the outcomes? Some choices mean 'more of the same' while others offer new possibilities.

There are some people here who have moved on into honest relationships. Some of us are still looking but I'd venture to say that we'd all agree we are in a much better place as 'solo' than we were as a couple. I know I am.

Be well.

 


“The future is unwritten.”
― Joe Strummer
 
Posted by phoenix
January 28, 2019 9:03 pm
#9

JustSomeone11 wrote:

Sure my wife was a part of it but for the other woman to see me and hang with my family and everything knowing what she was doing that I had no clue about,... I'm not sure it really can get much worse than that.

My feelings were (still are) the same.  I have a deep-seeded hatred for the woman my ex left me for.  I know that my ex is 50% of the problem, but my anger lies more against the other woman because I never had any positive feelings or cares for her.  So i see her as pure evil.  She stole the intimacy that I always craved from my ex-wife.  She brought ruin into my home, she "stole" my (ex)wife, destroyed my family.  No human being has ever damaged me and wronged me so much..  not even close.   I'm not a violent person, but I remember having some pretty evil thoughts.  I often wished they would both get into some horrible accident and cease to exist. 

But guess what...  Over time things change and your emotions even out and your perspective becomes different. 

I wouldn't really admit this to the other woman.. but from where I'm standing now in my life, I'm glad she came along.  My life is better now than it was in that miserable marriage.  (Please note that I didn't think it was miserable at the time).  So in a way she did me a favor..  but that would give her credit, so instead I like to think of it as God having a plan for my life and allowing this evil person to bring about a necessary change. 



JustSomeone11 wrote:

One of the hardest things of the last 2 days, is I started imagining what my life might look like if I were divorced.  The mess of dating again at the age of 42.  And then I imagined being in a new relationship, someone that wanted to touch me, having someone grabbed me and gave me a big kiss...   and then I had a complete break down... because it scared me... the thought of someone showing me affection scared me.  Like I wouldn't know what to do or how to react.  What kind of ****ed up is that?  After I regained myself.. i thought jesus, can I ever be normal?  If I leave, is it pointless?  Can I even return to a normal relationship again?

2 and a half years ago I was where you are.  I was 39 at the time, but close enough.  I had a HORRIBLE self-esteem and could never imagine any woman ever wanting any part of me.  I remember going to the store and seeing an attractive woman and not imaging anything sexual, but rather just wondering if she might give me a hug.  I was a mess!   I was scared to death of losing a lesbian wife who had zero interest in me, used me and lied to me for nearly 20 years to hide her truth from the world, and was bi-polar with some weird personality issues going on and was treating me like garbage while she made this new "bestie" the focus of her life while lying through her teeth to me on a daily basis about the affair I suspected but didn't want to believe.  Can you imagine a person wanting to cling to that and thinking that my life was ending because she wanted a divorce????  

This is normal though.  In this stage we can only see the impending doom.  We can only picture the losses we are about to face in our life.  We are not ready to imagine the new world that awaits us after we get through the storm. 

Fast forward to today..   I can help answer a few of your questions based on my own life experience. 

Dating at 40 is great.  Women are now adults and know what they want in life and if they aren't married by mid-30s they are serious about creating a real relationship rather than just playing games.  They aren't scared to show an interest in you, aren't afraid to be honest and won't string you along if they don't see a future.  These are all improvements in my eyes.  I didn't do too much dating... I signed up a few online sites, had a few one-time dates then a few dates with a girl who I considered "a girlfriend" for a little while.  Then after backing off for a while this amazing woman found me.  She's the one. 

After so many years of rejection from my ex, the experience of being with a real woman who really desires me is earth-shattering.  I'm still reserving a bit for marriage, but it's already absolutely amazing and I'm so excited for more.  You'll be fine..  hormones and instincts will kick and you'll forget those worries when you realize she desires you.  Again..  it's the most amazing thing.  

Can you return to a normal relationship?  Yes.  But it won't seem normal to you.  After experiencing the worst, even what would be average for most people is something you'll appreciate more than you can imagine.  It will be amazing. 


By the way.. your kids will be fine.  The younger they are the better.  Be the rock and love the heck out of them and they will be just fine.  We can talk lots more about this later.  50% stinks.. I want my kids all the time.  But if I'm really honest, having me time and free nights to spend with my friends and special someone are fantastic.  

Divorce will be a financial setback for sure - but better to do it now than live a miserable life for the next 20 years waiting and wondering when she will find another woman and then get a divorce that will be more costly than today.  


I'll sum it up this way..   The Gay Thing sucks!  Discovery and divorce and trying to put my life back together was the worst period of my life.  But because of that experience, I am now the happiest and most fulfilled I've ever been.  I became a better person, found the passion to help others and a way to do that, had fun rebuilding my life in the way I desired, found genuine happiness as a single healthy person, and have now found the woman I'm going to marry and spend the rest of my life with.  I couldn't be happier today.  


-Formerly "Lostdad" - I now embrace the username "phoenix" because my former life ended in flames, but my new life will be spectacular. 

 
 
Posted by Brokenhearted
January 29, 2019 8:20 am
#10

JustSomeone11, thank you for your post. This is my first post. I am three weeks removed from DDay myself and our stories are eerily similar. My wife and I just had our 13th wedding anniversary last week, together for almost 20 years (high school sweethearts) with four kids (12, 10, 8, 7).  My wife had a two year affair (10/16-8/18) with her best friend, a vibrant person who we spent nearly every weekend with for the last three years. We were so intertwined that I viewed our families as a team and I encouraged our families to be together because I knew how happy my wife was to finally be out of the little kid stage and have a meaningful adult friendship. I encouraged girl trips. They got small matching tattoos. I cooked for them during slumber parties. I took our families camping. I even paid for the other woman to bring her two kids on our family vacation and now look back in disgust as my wife slept in her room for 3 nights. Your reference to concerts and festivals hit home for me as this was also what we did together when we were able to get away from kids, highlights of the last two years now ruined by the discovery. I feel so duped, so betrayed. I discovered the affair because I found a journal hidden in our guest room which was essentially a transcript of texts between them during the first four months of the relationship. It was graphic sexually but also showed how capable my wife was in expressing love and her desire. This is language I haven’t seen in a looooong time, if ever, and something I so desperately wanted from her. They discussing secret rendezvous, the build-up of excitement, then the summary of events afterwards and looking forward to the next encounter. Oh how I would have been so interested in doing this with my wife. I’ve never gotten a sext or nude; nothing...grocery lists, complaints, family stuff.  Similar to you I had spent the last three years “working on myself” trying to recalibrate work-life balance, trying so hard to connect and be present. I moved my office closer to home, would come home for lunch, was more active in family life hoping to get on her radar. It turns out it only allowed her more free time to meet with this woman. Like you I also feel very betrayed by the other woman, my friend, drinking buddy and sometime consultant on my marriage. I thought I could trust her and asked her for advice on my marriage, gifts for my wife and i was honest about how much I loved my wife and wanted to have a good marriage. I was feeding my enemy secrets and she capitalized on it. Looking back, I enjoyed her company a lot and I am in disbelief that she did this as much as I can’t believe my wife did either. I’m so sad about the whole thing. My wife is saying she is likely gay and I think she will eventually come out. The genie is out of the bottle. I believe that will eventually lead to our separation and divorce.  My wife seems only sad for the potential loss in utility and the fact she has blown up our marriage/family. I have yet to get any form of meaningful apology. While it doesn’t matter, I talk occasionally with the other husband to compare notes to make sure we are getting honest answers and the other woman sounds like she is genuinely trying to save her marriage and I am somewhat jealous of that. I guess I’m sad that I got the gay spouse and not the “regretful, I’ll do anything” spouse. What a horrible situation. This past weekend she told her family and I told my dad; it was good to bring other people into the story and I felt relief that others felt betrayed by her actions. Her family is being very harsh on her as they are not very accepting of gays, which is likely why she was closeted in the first place. Like you, I fear for my kids.  I don’t want them to be displaced...made fun of....confused. lts so sad. I am hopeful they will be okay and glad to hear many positive stories. I’m just an absolute mess and it has crushed my productivity at work and I’m just numb. I understand it’s part of the process but just sucks having to go through it. I would normally steer around my feelings, again something I have been working on “staying in my feels”, but damn this is brutal. I am talking to a therapist and this forum has been very helpful.  I know that feeling of not having anyone to talk to and I’m glad to finally make this post as I feel better getting thoughts out of my head.

Phoenix, thank you for your posts throughout this site. And to others who post. They are read and appreciated.

 


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