OurPath (formerly SSN) Open Forum / “I’m not Gay - I don’t want a RELATIONSHIP with another man.

**Posted by MomOfFour** November 20, 2018 9:33 pm

Just went to my husband’s therapist appointment today and heard the therapist talk about Kinsey’s continuum, and then bring up the INTIMACY/SEX distinction. A man who has sex with another man is not gay or bi if he doesn’t want a relationship.
What I don’t understand about this theory is the acceptance that humans are like sex toys. Like it’s okay in some way to have sex completely devoid of intimacy, and we should find that comforting somehow, that our spouse is not “bi” or “gay” but just prone to use partners for sex without intimacy? I can’t get behind the MSM theory.

**Posted by OutofHisCloset** November 20, 2018 9:50 pm

News flash: LOTS of gay men throughout the years engaged in bathhouse sex: LOTS of anonymous sex and NO intimac and nary a relationship, and guess what? Those men were GAY!

Another News Flash: If it's not acceptable to you, that enough. Whether he's bi or gay or or just wants to have sex with another man. If it's not acceptable to you, that's enough. If you don't accept that humans should be like sex toys, you don't need to defend your view, or "get behind" anything. You only have to state it: "this isn't acceptable to me." You are under no obligation to go along with anyone else's theory or belief. You need no other reason than that.

Gaslighting by professionals is still gaslighting.

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (November 20, 2018 9:54 pm)

**Posted by jkc1214** November 20, 2018 9:58 pm

OMG...if a therapist told me that he/she would get quite the earful!!!!!! No, that means you haven't accepted who you really are. Wanting sex with a man means you're gay, it doesn't matter if you want a relationship. Hell, plenty of straight guys just want to screw around and not have a relationship with a woman...that doesn't mean they aren't really straight.

**Posted by vicky** November 22, 2018 2:09 pm

MomofFour

I agree with the others that you do not have to accept the direction your relationship is taking, if you're not down with an open relationship he should be on the same page.

Sexuality is a complicated thing, in North America (USA I'm looking at you) we tend to be super conservative in the sex department and treat it as gay or straight no in between. In other cultures it's not uncommon for the straight/gay line to be more blurred.
The difference is who do you want to spend your life with, is it that man or that woman that's what makes you gay. Having sex without intimacy is common practice among hetero's and gay people and so of course it would be with bi people too.

Vicky

**Posted by walkbymyself** November 24, 2018 9:34 am

So let me get this right: this is your husband's therapist? Why on earth did you get dragged into it?

The goal of INDIVIDUAL therapy is to work out issues for that individual. It's not couples therapy. The therapist is there to help one person deal with some issues, and that person isn't you, so your health and happiness isn't being addressed.

**Posted by MomOfFour** November 24, 2018 10:37 am

“So let me get this right: this is your husband's therapist? Why on earth did you get dragged into it?“

Why on earth did I get dragged into it? I ASK MYSELF THAT EVERY DAY. Thirty three years worth.
I think someone thought it might be helpful?!? I agreed. Certainly not with any malicious intent. I fully recognize that my happiness and mental health is, has, and has always been secondary.

**Posted by OutofHisCloset** November 24, 2018 10:46 am

MomofFour,
The good thing about knowing that your "happiness and mental health is, has, and has always been secondary" is that now that you are seeing clearly that that's true, how it's enforced by others, and how you yourself undercut yourself, you can change the dynamic. It's not easy, and you get pushback from those who want you to continue putting them and their needs first, but it can be done. I found "Boundaries after a Pathological Relationship" by Adelyn Birch very helpful. It's a quick read and eye-opening.

**Posted by walkbymyself** November 24, 2018 11:24 am

MO4: I guess the reason I'm shocked is that the therapist's role is to aid your husband. I have a hard time thinking this could be appropriate. The fact of it being your husband's therapist, however well-intentioned, leaves you at a personal disadvantage. If your husband wants you to join him, then by all means go into couples therapy -- with a neutral therapist. But once you're brought into this situation, you're inherently at a disadvantage, because that particular therapist has a specific therapeutic goal to help your husband.

Speaking just for myself -- after everything I've endured in my own relationship, the very last thing on earth I want to hear from anyone, ever, is what the Kinsey scale considers bisexual versus homosexual. If my husband wants to play games with the dictionary to evade ethical responsibility for cheating, that's on him. Just leave me out of it.

Last edited by walkbymyself (November 24, 2018 11:25 am)

**Posted by jkc1214** November 24, 2018 12:30 pm

walkbymyself wrote:
Speaking just for myself -- after everything I've endured in my own relationship, the very last thing on earth I want to hear from anyone, ever, is what the Kinsey scale considers bisexual versus homosexual. If my husband wants to play games with the dictionary to evade ethical responsibility for cheating, that's on him. Just leave me out of it.

Also, the whole Kinsey scale thing doesn't really work if the person is lying to themselves about where they fall on it.

**Posted by lily** November 24, 2018 1:03 pm

Alfred Kinsey was attracted to men. He married a woman and had 4 children. He is now described on Wikipedia as being bisexual. He used to be described as gay. He is known for having punished himself for having homoerotic feelings as a young man.

as far as I'm concerned the whole notion of the Kinsey scale is a gay man trying to justify his bisexual behaviour by saying everyone is gay.

Or at least a little bit gay - he has no idea what it is like to be straight.