Hoodwinked, I'm so sorry for the hurt, fear and turmoil you face.  Not many people truly understand what you're going through, but the straight spouses here absolutely do.  Please keep posting.

The Craigslist M4M section is filled with closeted married men seeking "discrete encounters" with other men.  Men who travel for work especially like it because they can find hook-ups in a new city within minutes. 

While I'm certain there are men who have perused the M4M section and have never had sex with a man, anyone who frequently checks it, or checks it when they travel, or has a long history of checking it, is doing so because they get something out of it --- most likely, "no strings atteached" (NSA) sexual encounters with other men.

Your husband gains absolutely nothing by being truthful about his Craigslist use.  If he lies, he at least has the chance to keep his straight-life with you.  And that's what ultimately matters most to him.  That, and not being outed as a cheater and a fag to his family, your family and all your friends. 

Absolutely he'd much rather keep things as they are - with you as his dutiful wife - and random men willing to meet for sex whenever it's convenient for him.

Is he bi or is he gay?  A lot of straight wives get stuck on that question, especially when their husband adamantly insists he's not gay.  Well, the facts speak for themselves.  Any man who has a compulsion to meet other men for sex is not doing so on a whim.  It's not something he intellectually or emotionally wants to do, it's something he physically and psychologically NEEDS to do.  And that need doesn't go away, ever.  Sexual attractions are permanent.  In fact, if anything about the need changes, it's that the desire becomes more intense and more impossible to resist as times goes by.

For the sake of your own physical and mental health, please stop having sex with him and immediately get yourself tested for STDs.  Also, don't make any moves you might later regret - consult with an attorney to understand exactly what your rights and responsibilities are.

I know this is a very sad time.  And yes, your husband does genuinely love you and your straight life together, BUT he is primarily attracted to men.  Is that the kind of man you'd ever choose to be with?

Hi Hoodwinked.  I'm sorry for what you're going through, but I'm glad you found us.  People here understand and have gone through this.

Unfortunately, I doubt there is much of a chance that he's just visiting a site that's renowned for it's ease in hookups without him actually doing something.  One thing we as women don't realize is that usually, WE are the one putting on the brakes.  Men are always pushing for sex, and it goes exactly as fast as the slower person desires.  When you get two men together, it's likely that they're both pushing for sex and no one's putting on the brakes.  It can go very quickly - they both want the same thing.  There is virtually no reason for your husband to be on CL to look for gay stuff without having a reason to be doing so.  It's not like he gets to see lots of sexy photos.  And men there are looking for hookups - they're not a site about talking about how difficult same-sex attraction is.  They're there for one thing and a one thing only: sex.  If your husband has been on there for a long time, he's likely participated in what that site is for.  If not, what would be the point?  People won't endlessly chat about what they want.  It's not a DATING site, hon.

As Cameron said, your husband has absolutely nothing to gain from telling you that he's been sexually active with other men.  He knows from your reaction about just "chatting" with them that you won't take the news well.  he gains nothing from telling you the truth, and plenty from lying to you.  You, on the other hand, already know that he's been lying to you and deceiving you - even if all he ever did was talk sex to these men.  If he was online chatting it up with other women about sex and their bodies and his, would that be okay with you?  I'd think not.  You'd consider it cheating. Don't let the gay thing throw you a curveball to the point where you're concentrating on his sexuality rather than his actions.  His actions say that he's not about being truthful with you, and he's willing and able to hide things and deceive you and give away what should be only yours - his extra time, his passion and his commitment.  The fact that he did this with men doesn't subtract from what he's done - it adds TO it.  It's a double-whammy, not a half-whammy.  Your husband doesn't need to be sexually satisfied outside of your marriage.  If he does (and he's showing you that he does), then you've got a huge issue.

He wants you to believe that he never WOULD follow through on a hookup.  Well, I'll be you thought he never WOULD be chatting it up with gay men.  Or looking at a site for being with gay men.  So no, you don't know him as well as you thought you did.  Because he wants you not to.  He wants to do things that aren't in line with who he's portrayed himself to you to be, and then believe that you already know who he is.  Bullshit.  If you started cheating on him, would you legitimately be able to be angry with him for believing you'd cheat?  Nope.  The proof is in the pudding.  Don't be the chump he's counting on you to be.

I don't advocate for divorce, but by the time you see someone doing what your husband is doing, it's pretty clear to me that he's no longer "all in" the marriage.  He's willing to do things that he KNOWS will hurt you, and that he knows detract from your relationship.  At that point, you have no reason to trust him any longer.  He's clearly out for satisfying his own desires, even if it costs him you.  He knew that when he started this.  Seriously.  He knows.  And he knows that YOU know.  He's just counting on you being nice enough to let it slide that he's being unfaithful to you.  Why you'd let that slide, I'd never know.  Bust him.

Kel

 

Hoodwinked, another poster has pointed out (as have very many others in other posts in this forum) that it's good to not get too hung up on the technical question of whether your husband is gay, bi, bi-curious, "blended", genderqueer, or any of the very many other terms in use nowadays. Many have said that this is a distraction and can harm you, retard your progress to happiness. I think they're right.

Here's the deal from a public health perspective. Public health workers found that their messages targeted toward gay men were not working, because many guys don't self-identify as "gay." It isn't just the social stigma. Many are simply completely not into the "gay lifestyle" - they don't act gay, they don't feel like part of any gay community, they don't identify with gay culture or gay guys. They will say, in all seriousness and honesty, that they're straight, but they just like to ... (insert sex act/practice here) from time to time. In their eyes, their minds, and their hearts, there's no contradiction. They maybe could pass a lie detector test while saying "No, I'm not gay."

But, disease can still get transmitted via unprotected sex acts whether the guy feels himself to be gay or not. So public health workers now use the term MSM, meaning Men who have Sex with Mean (no, not MainStream Media). They just discard the other terminology, which cuts out all the c**p, obfuscation, confusion. Then it becomes very simple - the guy has sex with men or he doesn't. If he does, there are protective practices he should learn and follow.

In our context it can also be that simple. The guy is interested in sex with men or he isn't. If he isn't then there is no problem (and no need for this forum, nor would you be on here). If he is, well, then "you've got a situation." The sex drive is perhaps the most powerful drive there is and in this day and age we are not going to be able to fight against it very effectively or for very long. It's just too easy to "get some on the side" as others have mentioned. If you're a person to be tempted, the tempting offers will reach you.

My suggestion - take a clear look at your situation and ask yourself "Is my husband interested in male-on-male sex?" I think from what you write yourself, the answer is obvious: "yes."

There was a woman on this forum who asked for help and described "gay-ey" behaviors, mannerisms, presentations, and interests of her husband. She wondered if this was normal. A straight guy responded that his own interest in seeing men's bodies, was precisely zero.

I don't want to set a hurdle that is so high, that no straight man can ever vault it. It is kind of impossible to avoid any exposure to gay stuff. My wife and I went to a movie (art movie in an art house) one time and there, as a preview/coming attraction, were clips from a movie that showed guys having sex right there on the big screen. Another time we were early for a concert and walked half a block to a local book store, and found that it had a large gay section. Both times I commented that that "was interesting" and I neither ran away/out, retched, etc. It was interesting in a certain sense. But it didn't attract me, didn't make me change any orientation, turn any corner, have any "realization," etc. Didn't make me want to go out and do/try it. Nor did I go see the movie that had been promoted, or buy any of the gay literature in the bookstore.

If a guy is perusing the gay posts on craisglist, et cetera, that is kind of incontrovertible proof that he's interested. If you are not sure if that's true, try this. Think of something you're not interested in (macrame? cake decorating? bestiality? chess? numerology? literary theory? pump system design?). How much time do you spend, on that? Zero or basically zero, right?

People are complicated, relationships are complicated. So are these days we live in. A relationship that has lasted for 2 decades has lasted through a huge, profound change in how people view "gay" and gay marriage, etc. When the landscape changes, it changes us too. What might have been unthinkable is now a commonplace option. You can't not think about it when the news is full of it.

The big question for most people here is, I think, not "Would it be OK to enter into a marriage when one partner is bisexual and non-monogamous?" Nowadays some people might go into such a situation with their eyes wide open and maybe it could be made to work - I really don't know. But on this forum, we're talking about something that was hidden and is now coming out. The societal change has a lot to do with that. People are hearing loud and clear, over and over, "it is OK and honorable/brave to come out."

Maybe it is, maybe not. I personally think there is value in sticking it out for the sake of the kids (which is what I did); I know that others disagree and I would never press this point. A person who's hurting needs to seriously consider the option of ending the hurt.

In the end nothing I or anyone else writes here, will make a lot of difference, because this is a personal matter and you are the person. I would not want to advise you but here's a thought for you - consider trusting your instincts.

Benjamin Spock, author of Baby and Child Care, began his book with this:

"TRUST YOURSELF

You know more than you think you do. Your family is growing and changing. You want to be the best parent you can be, but it's not always clear what's best. Everywhere you turn there are experts telling you what to do. The problem is, they often don't agree with each other. The world is different from how it was twenty years ago, and the old answers might not work anymore."

For at least 30 years, people have been saying that "Doctor Spock" has been obsolete. Yet his book is still a bestseller. I think that's because he was actually a good, kind, sensitive, wise modern-day philosopher. And I think that that attitude, and that quote, might serve you well. Trust yourself, trust your instincts. Of course we don't abandon our spouses the first time we feel bad, or no marriage would last even a year (or maybe even a month). But your heart is telling you whether you feel pleasure or pain, and if you look at your husband's behavior (*not* his words, explanations, self-characterizations, excuses) I think you'll see what's there. Because you kind of obviously already have.
 

I'd like to ask James a question.  

You say you stuck it out for the children and I am wondering if you are still together with your wife.  did you break up after the children left home or have you stayed together?