Well written Sean,   Its hard to believe you did a lot of this to your wife.   You're certainly the exception to gay spouses who have no empathy to stop hurting their spouse let alone help other straight spouses.  

I had such insane loyalty to my ex at the time even though she was cheating on me  and , ultimately loathing and hating me.   It took my psychiatrist, really a stranger, who prescribed my  anti-depressants to comment "you're abused"  to really make me see what was going on... hearing it from someone else and not being able to refute the comment and justify  my  now ex's treatment of me really brought me back to reality..    The treatment I accepted for so long was in reality not how a wife should treat a husband.     We accept and excuse such poor treatment when we're in these relationships with narcissistic GID spouses.    

Its hard to see when your in the middle of it.    Now that I am away from her  I look back and see how much crap I put up with..       Never again..  i want to believe there are normal people in the world that love authentically and could never hurt the person they love.  That make vows and promises and mean them down to their soul.

Thank you for writing Joe. Your journey has just begun my friend so I'm going to try to be as gentle and diplomatic as possible when responding to your post. So here goes: 

1. My wife became highly agitated and angry after I caught her watching lesbian porn the third time.

​Ok. Given what you shared in your first post, she appears to have a long history of watching lesbian pornography. I think she's getting agitated and angry because there are now consequences to surfing gay porn...namely you calling her out on her questionable web habits.  

2. I confronted her to open our marriage to better communication and sex and in the process...

I am a firm believer in the stages of grief (denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance​). Unfortunately, you've now discovered your wife's homosexuality and if she's anything like me, there will now be a huge disconnect in accepting this new reality. You appear to have very quickly accepted your wife is either bisexual or gay, while she continues to struggle with it.  

3. She admitted to having an affair with women, then denied it and continues to deny it.

I'd go with her first reply, rather than her after-the-fact denials. I'd also suggest reading up on narcissism and something called "gaslighting." Gay-in-denial spouses like me tend to use a number of tricks and manipulations also used by people suffering from narcissistic personality disorder (or "NPD"). Rather than get on the NPD or gay-in-denial roller coaster, I'd continue focusing on the facts: straight people don't watch gay porn; straight people don't have gay sex; and straight people don't get angry when accused of either.  

4. This really hits home as I said something similar to a friend: "if someone accused me of being straight [I think you mean gay], I'd just laugh it off because I know who I am now. Defensiveness about anything means it strikes a highly sensitive nerve. A straight man doesn't have to justify it. He's just straight. Period. The only people who obsess about gay and gay sex are gays in denial and this may include your ex-husband."

I agree. As someone shared in your thread, she's now having sex with you as if she has something to prove. "Look I can't be gay because I'm f*cking my husband...all the time!" Similarly, you seem to have struck a very sensitive nerve given her anger and defensiveness when confronted about being gay. The sudden hypersexuality, anger, and defensiveness are all red flags in my opinion.

5. Were there times over the years where your ex-wife questioned you and you responded in anger or denial? 

​Yes. I was incredibly defensive when she or anyone else would hint that I was in any way gay. Why? Because I really didn't want to be gay. So I was emotionally straight and yet sexually gay. I chose to identify as straight. This means I chose to marry a straight woman, but was having sex exclusively with men. Yes there can be a honeymoon period when the cornered gay spouse pretends to be interested in sex with their straight spouse. It's quite common. But you can't tread water forever. After a few weeks or months of "pretending", the gay spouse is right back to the websites, chats, and cheating.    

​6. Did her questioning help or hurt in your acceptance and coming out?  I'm trying to get her to open up to me.

​This is where so many straight spouses go wrong on my opinion. Why? Because straight spouses can't play an active role in the gay partner's coming out process. A gay-in-denial spouse marries a straight person with the sole purpose of hiding his/her sexuality. Yes I felt affection for my (then) wife. But it wasn't love although I thought it was love. Let's look at this from a different perspective. Imagine the alcoholic asking his favourite bartender with help to get sober. Or a junkie asking her dealer for advice on getting clean. These are extreme examples of course but my point is that the gay/straight relationship itself is fundamentally unsound because it's based on a lie. As we've seen time and time again, gay/straight marriages all eventually end. Some marriages end quickly, but most go through a slow and painful death...often via a sad mixed-orentation-marriage (or "MOM") phase. While I'm happy to read other opinions, to me MOMs appear to be nothing more than "Well now I know my husband is f*cking men so I guess we're in an open relationship...that incidentally I never asked for and don't really want." Sadly, it appears most straight spouses are left to do the heavy lifting to make the MOM work. This means she's acting like a man in the bedroom, letting him have sex on the side, or forced to accept group sex. In my opinion, how quickly gay/straight marriages (or MOMs) end depends on how long the straight spouse chooses to remain in the denial and bargaining stages of grief. These stages sound like:

​DENIAL
Early Stage: She says she doesn't watch gay porn but I keep finding it. Maybe she isn't a lesbian. I'm confused.
​Middle Stage: She told me she had sex once with another woman. But I still suspect more cheating.  
​Final Stage: She says she's gay because she was molested as a child. First time I've heard about it.  

​BARGAINING
Early Stage: He claims he's bisexual. But he only watches gay porn and we haven't had sex in years.
​Middle Stage: We tried a threesome. It made my skin crawl to see how much he was in to the other guy.
​Final Stage: He wants to open up our marriage (his idea). I'm scared. Does anyone know about mixed orientation marriages?

​So Joe to answer your question, your wife will probably never open up to you nor admit she's gay. There will always be an excuse other than, "I was born this way." Why? Because if she told you the whole truth about her cheating, porn habits, and deepest desires, to do so would force her violently out of the closet while likely ending your relationship. But a word of caution: if she's like many of the gay spouses described here, she'll drop you like a hot rock once she's found her first same-sex love. If I were to take a guess based on my own experience and what I've learned here, she's probably already got a girlfriend or at least a long-term lover. The telltale signs are constantly talking about a co-worker/friend who is gay & single, going on overnights/weekends with this person, and a text/email history with this "friend." So there is a very strong possibility she might leave you in the next 18 months. As such, it's time to start focusing on you and your mental health. Consider it emotional insurance.

​I'd suggest you read my post above and start focusing 100% on you and the possibility that your marriage might end...perhaps rather violently. This means writing out the kind of relationship you want, getting professional help, getting help from fellow forum members, and posting your full story here. If as I suspect your wife is truly a lesbian and has been cheating on you for years, then you'll have to learn to detach with love and start healing from a potentially toxic marriage.

I hope that helps my friend and I'm very sorry if that stings. Please feel free to post again if you have more questions.

Last edited by Sean (August 27, 2017 1:00 am)

Sean.remember you are important here to so many. We appreciate your input more than u know by far. Thank u for your participation as many here need the wisdom u bring.keep coming here to lend your experience and knowledge. Thank you! Sincerely grateful!

Thank you for writing Ynadin. I think by "hypersexuality" you're referring to the honeymoon phase after the gay spouse has been found out? If yes, it seems to be a pretty common phenomenon and yet another stage of the gay/straight relationship. If you're new to this thread, I've often referred to "discovery" or a time when the straight spouse finds gay porn, Craigslist chats, or texts from a lover. The straight spouse confronts the gay spouse with this proof, usually provoking a violent denial ("I'm not gay! I was just curious...these gay sites were pop ups...blah blah blah.") The gay spouse is scared the relationship will end so he/she initiates sex, buys flowers, and generally acts like a newlywed to rebuild the relationship. This is why I call it the "honeymoon" phase. This can be disorienting for the straight spouse because many have gone years or even decades without any real intimacy. Then all of a sudden their husband/wife is rutting like a teenager. But, as you shared, it still seems fake. Maybe they refuse to kiss. Maybe they can't orgasm. And then after a few weeks or months when the straight spouse is safely reinvested  in the relationship, the sex tapers off, the porn comes back, and the Craigslist messages or hookups continue. I often write that gay spouses can't tread water forever. So I agree with you that the truth eventually comes out. Please share more of your story if you like because you too are helping so many straight spouses struggling. Thanks again for posting.       

Thanks for the update Joe. By coming back and sharing your story, please know that you're helping countless other straight spouses. So thank you for your bravery. I believe you're referring to my post urging straight spouses to focus on themselves and their own mental health. If so, I'm glad I could help in some small way. In response to your post.

1. It's taken me a bit of time to process my thoughts on what you had to say. I didn't even realize you referenced my post in a earlier post until I went back. All I can say is thank you. Thank you for taking the time to respond. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and thank you for sharing your experience.

My pleasure. I believe this is the post you referred to: http://straightspouse.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=9329#p9329​.

2. I needed to hear what you had to say and you're right about so much.

​That's debateable my friend as I'm often wrong. 

3. I smiled as I reread your post because I went to my first therapy session yesterday and couldn't have been happier to know I'm walking in the right direction. It took me until yesterday to really realize that I can't change the past and I have no control over what's going to happen in the future and I'm okay with that. I posted my story in a few places (got the best advice here) and the common reoccurring theme through every response was the same: she did cheat or is cheating and you are 100% right; she's never going to tell me. Ever.

​Good for you! Sadly gay-in-denial spouses often act like emotional black holes...sucking up all the light. It sounds like you're learning to detach, but in a loving way. You're light years ahead of most of us my friend. Having been through this process myself, albeit as a gay husband, I think I have some understanding of the gay spouse's mind. Her lies and continued denials don't make her a bad person, she's just confused and scared. The confusion and fear will only resolve themselves after ​you've separated and she's forced to confront her homosexuality alone. While some disagree with me, I firmly believe most gay-in-denial spouses have some form of narcissistic personality disorder (or "NPD"). In short, I believe NPD is an extreme form of self-centredness, often to the point that we can't appreciate other's emotions. People with NPD fear being alone because we suffer from the most toxic form of self hatred. So she's grappling with two fears: her homosexuality and being alone. Having been through this, it feels like drowning and we often take our straight spouses down with us. This is why I try to urge straight spouses to detach, get therapy, contact the Straight Spouse Network (or SSN members), and continue posting here. You have to take care of YOU first. And this means acting in a way that puts you, your feelings, and your mental health first. So I think you're on the right track getting therapy ALONE. If you tried couples therapy first, as many of us have wrongly done, the gay thing and gay-in-denial spouse issues often dominate the therapy sessions which then tragically invalidates you and your feelings.    
 
​4. My biggest fear is waiting five years to hear; I told you the truth 5 years ago, I'm in love with someone else and leaving you. It's not separating that scares me; it's being lied to by a professional, it's feeling like a chump for not listening to my gut and it's the thought of missing out on someone really loving me for me.  I do love my wife but I'm not going to allow myself to be taken advantage of more than I have; I'm not going to let her redirect blame and I'm going to be honest with her about how I feel even if it upsets her. (One of many reasons I knew I needed individual help). I've also given my feelings a timeline; if I can't move forward by X date, I'm going my own direction forward and I'm starting to plan for that so I'm not taken by surprise if or when it happens.  Thank you again for your truth, comments and experiences.

Well said! I've read gut-wrenching posts from straight spouses who waited months, then years, then decades for their gay-in-denial spouses to change. (I believe one long-term member waited something like 45 years before throwing her gay-in-denial husband out.) I think you're on the right track: setting boundaries; having a timeline; and no longer believing her bullsh*t. While it's painful, I also think it's prudent for straight spouses to assume the worst (namely cheating) and start planning their exit. Many straight spouses are blindsided when they catch an STD or, worse still, their gay-in-denial spouse finally comes out while also announcing they've met "the one."

I guess my last post to you could be summarized as, "protect yourself, take care of yourself, assume the worst, and plan accordingly." But I understand that it's easy for me to write these things because I have the benefit of hindsight. When we're in the middle of all this, it's often hard to get out of bed most days. Moreover, straight spouses are often trapped in a gay-in-denial (or GID) spouse's web of lies. It's also very hard to detach when the GID spouse "love bombs" which is simply using gifts, sex, or attention to bring a doubting straight spouse back into the relationship post-discovery (of cheating, gay porn, or Craigslist messages). Your wife apparently tried this with you but it didn't seem to work.

​Thanks again for sharing Joe and please keep coming back.     
 

Last edited by Sean (September 7, 2017 9:18 am)