Thank you for sharing Scrupulous. You've made huge strides in a very short time so bravo my friend. While you're learning to detach, I think it's perfectly normal for you to continue focusing on him and your troubled relationship. Learning from our mistakes helps us avoid the same mistakes in future relationships. But that has a shelf life. As such, I'd recommend setting some goals and perhaps a timeline for your breakup. Gay/straight relationships are very similar to one-sided narcissist/co-dependent relationships. As you move towards breaking up, your natural urge will be to play the role of his caretaker, healer, or fixer. But I wouldn't do this forever. Reading about his sex addiction, researching gay cruising habits online, and trying to clean up the local gay cruising parks are all part of the process of detaching from your gay partner. But I'd challenge you to ask yourself the following question: how does ultimately this help me? Imagine how much better you'd feel or how different your life will be in three, six, or even twelve months if you focused all of that love, kindness, and energy on yourself rather than your gay fiancé? So I'd set a deadline for both this detective work and break up. Give yourself a month or perhaps two maximum before going no contact with him. It will be very hard at first, after all you may have spent years trying to "fix" him, but you can't love him into the man of your dreams. It's time to split up, heal, and then find a straight man who will give you the love you deserve. I hope that helps in some small way.

Last edited by Séan (June 2, 2017 1:08 am)

Thank you for sharing Scrupulous. You're doing the right thing by sharing more details. The more you share, the more you're starting to accept the truth so please keep going. I was thinking about the gay/straight situation during my morning run and it hit me: relationships with gay-in-denial husbands (or "GIDHs") are often like addictions. Here's why I see similarities between the two:

​1. The straight wife often claims to "love" the GIDH, despite long-term neglect and emotional abuse.
​2. There is often a "I just can't quit him" mindset.
​3. The straight spouse feels her gay/straight relationship is manageable, when in fact it's often out of control.
4. Like a drug, the relationship warps the straight spouse's sense of reality. 

Whenever I read about a straight spouse going to couples counselling with her GIDH, and we've all tried counselling, I now think to myself, "Gosh it's like bringing a bottle of whiskey to rehab." Booze has but one purpose: to get us drunk. Similarly, the GIDH is single-minded in his goal of staying the closet. Everything else is secondary. The straight spouse often remains in the relationship despite negative physical and emotional effects like insomnia, depression, and anxiety. Despite the terrible toll on her health, she stays with her GIDH. Does this sound like a form of addiction? Let me know what you think.

Turning now to Scrupulous' post:

1. I was thinking the same thing. I don't hate him. I just hate what he does and as more time goes on more pieces to the puzzle form that helps ground my convictions.

​Well perhaps you should focus on how you feel around him. I can understand why you don't hate him, but I'd start with admitting that you hate the way you feel (on alert, uneasy, unloved etc) while with him.

​2. The other day I recalled a moment when we were being intimate, which was actually months ago since I started suspecting things I've kept that at a distance. (I should also state that we haven't had intercourse yet as we were waiting for marriage and I think the fact he can't get it up helped that also during some of those close calls.) Anyway, we'd both had a lot to drink, he more than I and he was pretty drunk. As things were getting hot and heavy, he ripped of his pants, fell back on the bed and brought his knees up to his chest like he was ready. I stood there fully dressed, looking down at him and thinking, 'uh what good is that gonna do me?' He finally opened his eyes and sat up to pull me down. By then I was done anyway and felt we'd pushed it too far. I left gracefully and tried to chalk it up to him just being submissive and drunk. Kissing doesn't seem to come natural for him either. I've read from others on here that's a flag also.

Wow. Ok so now we have fairly strong confirmation that he's a bottom, or the person penetrated during gay sex. And if I may be so bold, given his awkward posture, this ain't cowboy's first time at the rodeo. I fail to understand why he's trying to maintain his purity before marriage by not having sex with you - particularly at the ripe old age of 58. Avoidance?  

3. I come on here as a reminder to stay strong and not give in. He tries to stay in contact and I try to be cordial and friendly, but stressed that I need some space and time to think and pray about things.

​If I'm reading this correctly, you've broken off the engagement?

4. He politely gave it to me and even started attending more services at my church, which I heard later from my friends. Instead of being happy about that I'm now weary that he's using that as a smoke screen as well.

This sounds a lot like GIDH narc behaviour. Sensing he's losing his beard, a gay husband will often do some "Hail Mary" things like frantically want sex, play attentive husband, or even get religion. By going to your church, I believe he's doing three things: first, trying to show you he cares; second, indirectly recruiting your friends (Friends: "What a great guy"); and third, making you look bad if you do end up breaking up with him (Friends: "He's the perfect guy. Why did you ever leave him?").    
 
5. If he's bi, and has sex addictions caused by turmoil from youth, I do believe a relationship with God, therapy and lots of support from friends and a 'spouse' will help. But here's the kicker, while going to church and claiming to study the bible and pray....He's throwing out hookup signals up to this day.

​Now I understand where you're coming from so thank you for having the courage to share so openly and honestly. If I'm reading this correctly, you're holding on to the hope that his homosexuality is simply bad behaviour, like a gambling addiction. In essence, I think you believe it's treatable. This too is part of the grieving process and it's called "bargaining." I myself don't believe it's possible to "pray the gay away" but I'm not going to challenge you on your faith. You and the other members here are absolutely entitled to your beliefs. However, most stories along the lines of, "I was abused and that made me gay" are just more lies by men who are compulsive liars. I've posted on this before (http://straightspouse.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=263&p=58). Unfortunately, I don't really see the logic but I'm not a mental health professional. When something traumatic happens, whether a car crash or getting burned in a fire, that usually gives us a lifelong phobia or aversion. If as a child I'm bitten by a German Shepherd for example, logically I'd be afraid of big dogs. Why then would victims of childhood sexual abuse pursue ​the same relationships that so traumatized them as children? Please let me know your thoughts as the "I'm gay because I was molested" is common in gay/straight relationships.

Scrupulous here is what you've shared so far about your fiancé:

​1. You've never had penetrative sex.
2. He can't maintain an erection with you.
​3. He cruises for gay sex in your presence.
​4. He frequents gay cruising parks and, through various hand signals, has LOTS of experience there.
​5. He's a compulsive liar.  

​My question is this: do your definitions of love, marriage, and monogamy include any of the above? What are you getting out of this relationship? I have a very good (gay) friend who just recently broke up with his boyfriend of two years. We all saw it coming. While they were dating, the boyfriend was: constantly on a gay hook up apps cruising for sex with other men; lying compulsively about the hook ups (and many other things); getting crushed under huge debts which he had also hidden. When my friend asked for my opinion shortly after sharing all of this with me, I said: "You can't fix him. If this is his best behaviour at the beginning of your relationship, it's only going to get worse." And it did get much worse.

​My point to you Scrupulous is this man doesn't deserve you. He's 58 years old and has clearly been closeted his entire life. I know from experience. Spending most of my life in the closet warped me. He doesn't love you, despite his "good behaviour" because love isn't signalling for sex while your fiancée is crying right next to you. That's monstrous. You can't fix that level of brokenness. Regardless of his sexuality, this man is toxic like an addiction. It's time to go cold-turkey and move on my friend. Staying with him will only mean a lifetime of struggle and you deserve better. I hope that helps in some small way.

Last edited by Séan (June 2, 2017 12:53 pm)

Thank you for sharing. In reply:

1. I'm fully prepared to end it once and for all. ​

I think that's a very wise decision. Now it's time for action. First, I'd write it down somewhere where you'll see the words "I'm ending it" every day...perhaps on a message board. Second, it's time to accept that this man is very toxic, so the only way to proceed is by going no contact. It often helps to think of them as scorpions, because no matter what you think nor how you dress them up, all they're going to do is sting you. Third, I'd set a timeline for the breakup and then a specific date when you'll be going no contact. Any contact with a gay-in-denial narcissist will simply give him an opportunity to reel you back in as he's done in the past.

2. However, since I'm in a healing stage, I'm going to swing from being the understanding CARETAKER that I feel obligated to, (not meaning caretaker to the EXGID (did I spell that right? It would have been easier to spell *sshole lol), But caregiver (in the sense of balance) I feel an obligation to all humans that deserve and need what I can give in my free time. Thanks to you for helping me to see the co-dependency part on that re the ex and our relationship. To continue in it is a basic suicide. I see that now.

This demonstrates an incredible level of self awareness so you're on the right track my friend. As I've shared before, I believe that gay/straight relationships mirror the narcissist (gay) / co-dependent (straight spouse) relationships. As you've described, co-dependents believe themselves to be caretakers and healers. They are often selfless people who are only attracted to self-centred and emotionally-stunted narcissists. Gay-in-denial husbands (GIDHs) project a strange mix of strength and confidence, yet mixed with an immature and toxic self-centredness. This brokenness is an intoxicating pheromone that attracts a certain kind of partner who feels she is the only person who can heal or protect the GIDH. This manifests itself in straight spouse saying, "We're meant for each other," or "Only I truly understand him" even thought he's emotionally abusive, sexually disinterested, and likely cheating on her. You're right to focus on why you were attracted to this man and change that, rather than waste your life trying to fix him or your next broken love interest.

3. But the other swing is to being the BITCH that I love that loves to getting to the bottom of things no matter how bad it hurts me personally....learning from it, and moving on and helping others so they don't have to go through the same war as I did. It's a hard balance. But I think necessary for anyone that wants to remain authentic in life and as the person we truly strive to be...regardless of sexual orientation. 

This all sounds very noble, but please don't fall into the trap of convincing yourself that staying in touch with a very toxic and potentially dangerous man is for some greater good. I'd first admit that he's become like an addiction over which you have no control. Think of him like the cigarettes you gave up decades ago, addictive and extremely bad for your health.

4. And Sean, there was a photo that I forgot about. Well...failed to mention I should say for fear he might be reading this. It was in the recently deleted area on his phone. At first glance I thought it was a women giving a BJ to a man 69 style. This was because of the dark long locks and the way 'it' was posed hide the genital area. When I opened it up however the person giving had a completely flat chest without even a hint of breast. I handed it back to him and he deleted it and offered an almost believable story of  'he was researching ED and images popped up and somehow that one got on his phone..he saw it, wondered how it got on his phone and deleted it...and he thought it was a woman.'  But later when the subject came up again it changed to - 'That's the first time he saw the photo is when I showed it to him.' -to- the most recent 'you put it there to trap me'. Talk about FN gas lighting! He forgets half the shit he tells me (or pretends to) and unfortunately for him, I have a very sharp memory. Several weeks later as we are taking a stroll through the park after a grueling tennis match with another team...(this is where I'm stuck seeing him comes in) A tall guy that appeared to be in his mid to later 20's passed and looked at GID right in the eye. He had a knowing and smirk on his face. He also had a beard that could have been a few weeks old and after he passed I noticed he had lovely dark locks piled up in the back of his head. I said to my ex, ' "I remember that kid, except he didn't have a beard and his hair was down'.  The ass next to me said nothing but had a slight smirk on his mouth. 

That took a lot of courage to share all of this. Your honesty is helping countless women reading this post. As you learn to question his behaviour and his "spin" when caught red handed like this, I think this demonstrates that you're learning to detach - both from him and your toxic relationship. Clearly this is a gay man, blatantly doing gay things, while using you as cover (or "beard"). You've often mentioned a fear that he's reading this thread (he probably isn't) mixed with a need to protect him and his reputation in the community. I've read similar posts from straight spouses who love/hate their partners while also simultaneously fearing/protecting them. A qualified therapist can help you work through these contradictory feelings while hopefully showing you the power and control wheel of abusive behaviours (https://youtu.be/sAH2JmGIRQ0). Fear and love should not co-exist in my opinion so you've made the right decision to move on. 

​I hope that helps in some way my friend. It's time to move on from being focused on him, to focusing all of that love and energy on yourself.  

Last edited by Séan (June 5, 2017 8:31 am)

Thank you for sharing Scrupulous. You're providing more details every post which is a sign that you're seeing him for who he is, rather than the person he was pretending to be. Given what you just shared, I now firmly believe your former partner is a gay-in-denial (GID) narcissist. Think of these people as leeches, constantly hunting for supplies of love, approval, and appreciation. Your latest post provided some additional details that strongly suggest he's a very toxic person, namely:

​1. Still married (WHAT!?), yet dating you, all while having sex with men in cruising parks.
​2. Sensing the end of your relationship, he started hunting for a new relationship (classic narc!).
​3. Getting all fixed up and in shape to get a new beard.
​4. Still keeping tabs on you and his ex-wife (read up on something called "hoovering") just in case.
​5. Manipulating your friend to say he's back on the market in the hope you'll come back begging...for what: more abuse?

All in a week no less! Run my friend. Run! I'd focus on going no contact with this terrible excuse for a man. Why? Because any contact with your GIDH will just mean he'll leech on again to start draining you: emotionally; physically; and probably financially. Get ready for his final hurrah like a fake health scare, fake suicide attempt, or some other last attempt to bring you back. Please be careful and keep us posted. Whenever he tries to contact you just think, 'radioactive' because that's what he is. Be well.

Last edited by Séan (June 5, 2017 7:51 am)

Thank you for posting Scarey. I'm sorry you've found yourself here and hope that you are well despite the shock of learning your husband is gay. Your husband is very lucky to have such a supportive wife. In response to your question, there are a few resources I can recommend online. On Facebook, you can search:

1. Gays with kids (gayswithkids.com)
​2. Gay dads (thegayfathers.com)

If you're planning to stay together, here is a SSN forum thread dedicated to mixed orientation marriages (http://straightspouse.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=155​). Feel free to share your story either via my thread or your own. You can also ask questions if you like. All stories and opinions are welcome, although given a recent dust up, we try to keep this thread secular (or free of religion). Good luck and thanks again for reaching out.