OurPath (formerly SSN) Open Forum » A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Séan · May 26, 2017 12:14 am

Thank you for posting Scrupulous. That took a lot of courage so bravo my friend. Before replying to your post, I'd like to stress that if you're posting here about your partner, this often suggests three things:

1. Your partner is gay
2. You're in love with a fantasy, rather than reality
3. Your relationship is in serious trouble

Marriage is both a social and legal contract. So you're very lucky to be asking questions here BEFORE you get married. I would urge you to postpone your wedding until you are 100% certain that your fiancé is heterosexual, honest, and faithful to you. You should never marry when you have doubts because marriage inevitably leads to shared property, children, and a societal expectation that the couple will stay together. Now to your post:

1. My fiance has won everyone over! He's a super guy and not one person doesn't understand why I am running the other direction. I know he's great and that's why I wanted to marry him but I have strong suspicions!

This sums up gay/straight relationships, namely: "He's great" then "I have strong suspicions." These are contradictions. Gay-in-denial men like me tend to be perfect when "on stage" but then emotionally abusive and sexually disinterested when alone with our wives. It's confusing for our straight spouses.

2. First of all he didn't have sex with his first wife for 8 years. She refused but he doesn't tell me why.

These are red flags. Clearly he was getting his sexual satisfaction elsewhere. So he's divorced, neglected his first wife, blamed it on her, and was likely cheating on her. This isn't the definition of a "great" guy in my opinion. In fact, he sounds like a complete *sshole.

3. Why can't he perform with me? It's so half assed and he gets really proud when he gets even half a boner. But melts away during the intercourse I decided wasn't worth having. He stays harder when he's near my ass and I think he's trying to go there.

Life can be a bit like Scrabble. You have all the letters, can't make a word, and then suddenly they come together and spell: G-A-Y. So he didn't sleep with his first wife for eight years, you're posting on a straight spouse forum, he only gets sexually aroused by your *ss, but otherwise doesn't seem interested in the female anatomy. This certainly suggests he's gay-in-denial.

4. He's ALWAYS checking out other dudes in public and does all the up and downs but tries not to let me see. I even saw him shake his head and do this little click thing with his mouth when a really cute guy walked by. (He didn't know I was standing behind him.

These are more red flags.

5. He always makes me feel good and compliments me in ways no other man has but I feel a lot of it is forced.

Someone once told me that everything you say before "but" is false. I don't think sexual rejection, suspicions and doubts "make you feel good." In fact, this sounds a lot like abuse. Trust your intuition!

6. We can be in the middle of a deep meaningful converstion but he'll suddenly get fidgety and nervous when other guys walk by and will do weird things with his hands and I can tell he's no longer interested in the conversation. He admitted to me once that a male friend of mine is so hot it's hard not to look at him when I caught him gazing a little too long.

So he's admitted an attraction to men and through his behaviour clearly is attracted to men. This suggests he's gay-in-denial.

7. More than once while driving down the road I saw his truck at a few nearby parks and he acted really nervous when I pulled in. He always says he's taking a break and just enjoying the scenery.

So he's hanging out in gay cruising parks, forcing you to play detective. Do not marry this man!

8. He's secretive with the phone and his computer but hasn't denied me access. So far I haven't found anything but my gut tells me he's a lying bastard even though he says I'm crazy and imagining things.

Again, trust your intuition.

9. Like I said in the beginning, everytime I try to break it off and run he and everyone I know tells me what a great catch he is and I shouldn't let this one go.

Many gay-in-denial men are also narcissists. I was. I'd read up on narcissistic personality disorder because what you've described seems to fit the pattern of narc relationships. These relationships consist of idealize; devalue; discard. Gay-in-denial men like I was have just one priority: hiding our true sexuality. For whatever reason, I chose to remain in the closet. And what better way to hide my homosexuality than by being in a relationship with a woman. But I didn't love my ex-wife. Why? Because true love is based on honesty, not lies. I loved my closet, gay porn, and gay sex more than I ever loved her. When things got tense and I thought she'd leave me, I'd "love bomb" her back into submission. This meant pretending to be in love with her just long enough until she was emotionally re-invested in the relationship. Once she was safely back into my closet, then I'd go back to my old bad habits.

10. I hate this feeling because I do love him so much and don't know how to deal with this. I know he'd make the greatest husband but will I always have this doubt?

I know this is confusing and I'm very sorry that you're here. Please don't marry this man. My first question is, what exactly do you love? These are your own words:

a. I hate this feeling
b. He's a lying bastard.
c. He admitted to me once that a male friend of mine is so hot.
d. He didn't have sex with his first wife for 8 years.
e. He can't perform with me. It's so half assed.
f. I saw his truck at a few nearby parks and he acted really nervous when I pulled in.

Does the above list sound like love? This post may come across as judgemental Scrupulous, but it's not. I denied my sexuality for 35 long years before coming out of the closet. Unfortunately, I coerced a kind and caring woman into my closet. But I couldn't tread water forever. While I lied to myself that I was straight, my actions confirmed that I was indeed gay. And even after coming out to my wife, I tried to make it work for about two years before finally (and mercifully) splitting. So I'm commenting from a position of hindsight, so I'm no shining example my friend.

Here is what I suggest you do:

1. Write down your definition of love, not what you have with this idiot, but what you DESERVE. This is your love consitution so to speak.
2. Write down how your current partner makes you feel now.
3. Compare the two lists.
4. Start your own thread in this forum to share your whole story.
5. Get professional counselling.
6. Postpone your wedding. If your boyfriend asks why, tell him the truth. "I think you're gay and I don't want marry a gay man."
7. After working through the above steps, share your suspicions with a close friend or relative. You'll probably be surprised to learn that they may suspect he's gay as well. Women can often tell.

I hope that helps my friend. Please keep coming back, sharing, and getting support. Make yourself your priority for the next few months. Think of it as dating yourself. Treat yourself to nights out, movies, and little gifts. Give yourself everything he isn't capable of giving you. Then dump his *ss and find a man who can love you as much as you love yourself.

Last edited by Séan (May 26, 2017 12:19 am)

Scrupulous · May 26, 2017 9:09 am

Thank you so much for answering Sean! You are a true man and lifesaver for many. I'll keep you posted on the next drama. I've been trying to emotionally distance myself from him and told him we just need to take this slow but the conversation got heated and I ended up crying and telling him all my suspicions. He says i'm making it all up, creating things in my head, he's not gay, bi, nada, always loved women, never been with a man, doesn't look at any porn, I should have him followed, go through his house and check everything, and if I find evedence then accuse him. He finds the whole gay thing disgusting and his ED has to do with age and a possible parkinsons problem he's looking into. (He's 58 and I was the one that insisted he go to the dr when I saw signs of shaky hands)

I felt sorry for him and It all sounded so sincere. I sat next to him on a swing at the park with my tears drying and was starting to believe him. But then a hunk jogger stopped by the pole to stretch his knee.
Instead of my fiance holding me closer to verify his love, he starts to jerk, fidget and kept stealing glances at the guy especially when he turned his backside to us. My fiances eyes shifted back and forth from him to me and I noticed he sat more erect. A crow flew over and made a loud caw and was reminded of an earler prayer for signs. When the jogger was out of sight he leaned back to me and looked me in the eyes and said 'I love you and only you and want to marry you and will make the best husband you'll ever have but your pushing me away' .
I felt the urge to say "bullshit' and walk away but instead I said 'okay i guess time will tell'.
This probably writes like an fn soap opera because thats the way it feels.

lily · May 26, 2017 9:12 pm

Hi Scrupulous. I am like that too - non-confrontational. it's just a way of being. You don't need to be able to say bullshit and walk away. You just need to take on board that it's bullshit and walk away - you will be missing nothing but the misery and confusion such bs brings.

Sean, again thank you for validating my experience - he really did pretend to love me and it was right from the start. He was always playing the part with other people but when we were alone it was increasingly a different story but he always was a bit neglectful.

"because true love is based in honesty not lies" - that's a beautiful line, thanks.

Séan · May 29, 2017 7:06 am

Thanks for sharing Lily and Scrupulous. In reply to the last post:

"I'm at the park to today and notice my GID doing a 'tail feather' signal to other cars. (That's one hand behind back palm up fingers wiggle) I've seen him do it a few times. Does anyone know what this means?"

While I'm out now and divorced, while gay-in-denial I never did the cruising park scene nor Craigslist. I used a hook up phone app called "Grindr" and later went to gay saunas. I asked some gay friends who have cruised parks before and they told me this is a signal for anal sex. The man signaling behind his back is a "bottom" or the person who is penetrated. So your fiancé is overtly cruising for gay sex while in the park with you....his fiancée. If you ever needed confirmation he's gay in denial, you seem to have it. Let's just step back here for a moment.

You shared in your second-last post:

1. I've been trying to emotionally distance myself from him...

I know it's hard but I think you're doing the right thing. Detaching is the first step to getting toxic people out of your life.

2....and told him we just need to take this slow but the conversation got heated and I ended up crying and telling him all my suspicions. He says I'm making it all up, creating things in my head, he's not gay, bi, nada, always loved women, never been with a man, doesn't look at any porn.

This is all kinds of f*cked up but you know that my friend. An emotionally healthy person would acknowledge your feelings, apologize, and ask questions like, "What can I do to fix this?" A narcissist deflects, denies and attacks.

3. I should have him followed, go through his house and check everything, and if I find evidence then accuse him. He finds the whole gay thing disgusting and his ED has to do with age and a possible parkinsons problem he's looking into. (He's 58 and I was the one that insisted he go to the Dr when I saw signs of shaky hands).

If I'm reading this correctly, you two live separately which is a very good thing because it will make breaking up somewhat easier. If he's suffering from erectile dysfunction (or "ED"), it takes all of one doctor's visit to get some ED drugs like Viagra to cure it. But that would mean he'd have to have sex with a woman which he wants to avoid at all costs. So he'll continue making excuses to not have sex with you. I hate to write this but he's following a common pattern for gay-in-denial (GID) partners. With his back against a wall, he's now trying to manufacture sympathy through lies. You'll see in other posts that GID husbands often make up childhood abuse stories or illnesses to reposition themselves as victims. Don't fall for it. You're the victim. You're the one he's cheating on. You're being lied to. He's lying, you know it, and this is why you're still investigating because you just don't believe him.

4. I felt sorry for him and It all sounded so sincere.

This too is common. GID narcissists carefully choose kind and caring people as partners. People who partner with narcissists are often referred to as empaths or co-dependents. I'd suggest you read up on it. An excellent book about co-dependency is "Co-Dependent No More." Co-dependents feel an overwhelming need to protect and heal their narcissistic partners. They often learn this behaviour in childhood because of an alcoholic parent or broken home. This is why narcs make up bullsh*t stories to evoke feelings of sympathy. It's to trap their caring partners. But once you're re-invested in the relationship...

5. I sat next to him on a swing at the park with my tears drying and was starting to believe him. But then a hunk jogger stopped by the pole to stretch his knee. Instead of my fiance holding me closer to verify his love, he starts to jerk, fidget and kept stealing glances at the guy especially when he turned his backside to us. My fiances eyes shifted back and forth from him to me and I noticed he sat more erect. A crow flew over and made a loud caw and was reminded of an earlier prayer for signs. When the jogger was out of sight he leaned back to me and looked me in the eyes and said 'I love you and only you and want to marry you and will make the best husband you'll ever have but your pushing me away.'

Wow. Actions speak louder than words. He's saying, "I'm not gay" and yet cruising for sex in a park with you sitting next to him. This must have been very confusing and hurtful. I'm sorry this happened but at least now you know the truth. He's gay and his "love" for you is all an act. His #1 priority is keeping you in the relationship to hide his sexuality. A GID partner will do anything to keep you in the relationship and that includes making up bullsh*t illnesses like parkinsons or saying he loves you while he abuses you. But his actions confirm who he is. He loves his closet, cruising parks, and gay sex more than he loves you. It's time to accept that he's not going to change and move on.

I'd recommend you keep posting here, call the Straight Spouse Network to join meetings or find a sponsor of sorts, continue detaching from him, and find a therapist who has experience dealing with gay/straight relationships. It's time to accept the truth, he's gay, and start the long process of detaching and breaking up. You deserve an honest and kind man who desires you. As recent developments have demonstrated, he'll never be the partner you deserve.

I hope that helps in some small way my friend. Please keep posting.

Last edited by Séan (June 2, 2017 8:56 am)

Scrupulous · May 30, 2017 3:24 pm

Sean thank you so much for taking the time to help me!
As far as him not wanting to have sex..He actually does all the time but just can't get it up and when he can it doesn't last. He's really likes oral either way but I might as well be sucking on a wet noodle. The PD does seem real. He has all the other signs of it and has been using it to his advantange as a pity game. His forgetfulness is either one hell of an act or part of the disease. Either way I'll use it to my advantage since I already know what I know. I think he's been pulling this shit for years and I'm the first to really catch on or let him know about it. He claims not one person has ever accused him of this. Whether he's gay, bi, pan or whatever I no longer care. By disrespecting me so blatantly deserves some serious repercussions. There has been many park episodes. He thinks having a back ground in enforcing the rules in the very stuff he may be guilty of doing himself protects him but I'm praying it doesn't and would love to see his fat face spread all over the TV with a park sting. But sadly I'm afraid he's too smart for that and only signals to get his hookups and then figures a way to do them elsewhere legally.
I'm guilty of playing a few head games of my own with him to watch him squirm.
That POS deserves to lose all respect. I gave him many chances to come clean which I know he'll never do. I even told him I was ok with, could still be friends, but never lovers but he starts his lies again.
I know this is long but I'm keeping you posted. Trust me I've taken all the advice. I have appts set up and I will get through this and deserve better and could easily find someone that at least looks much better. I was actually ready to marry him for his personality and thought he was just a great caring guy.
Again, sorry so long and it may sound like I have multiple personalities on here but it's just emotions and a cover in case he reads this.
But by now I don't care. F..him.
Thanks again for your time and advice. ;}

Last edited by Scrupulous (June 2, 2017 8:55 am)

Scrupulous · May 30, 2017 5:59 pm

Oh I forgot to add that the other day as we sat on the beach and I lovingly pretended to act loving..I noticed he switched his watch from his left wrist to his right. I pretended not to notice at first because I was also busy watching another guy wandering around behind us with a smirk on his face. I looked at my GID and asked the time and noted the wrist switch. He claimed it was part of the PD and he did that often because sometimes the bands bothered his hands....and blah blah blah. I'm thinking 'you FN moron'. Meanwhile as this other redneck looking guy with the cowboy hat kept getting up and walking behind us, I noticed one of his arms go behind his back as he sat in the chair. I ask him where his other arm went. He muttered some nervous excuse and shakingly brought it back around. Of course later the conversation turned to him telling me how I should really go to a particular party that night that he wasn't invited to. I wasn't planning on attending at first because of just being emotionally drained.
But after his never ending sneaky little BS I told him that yes I was going to go so he could hook up with his cowboy.

Séan · May 31, 2017 2:08 am

Thank you for sharing Scrupulous. I think anger, and perhaps even a desire for revenge, are natural steps in the healing process. But staying angry too long can be toxic. Perhaps some other members can share how they successfully navigated their own anger and ensuing break ups. I would caution that gay-in-denial husbands (GIDH or fiancés in your case) are highly sensitive to shifts in their relationships. Sensing the end, GIDHs often paint their straight wives as crazy, irrational, or they go so far to project that it's their wives who are cheating. So what's my point? Please don't become your own worst nightmare. You mentioned pretending to love him, strangely informing him about stings at his gay cruising grounds, and yet contacting your local police station in an attempt to have him arrested. These are not healthy behaviours my friend and I fear you're getting down in the mud with him. It also demonstrates that you're still invested somehow in the relationship when the real goal is to just leave this man and get on with your life. If you're telling him about police stings at his favourite cruising grounds, offhandedly mentioning hook ups (like with the cowboy), and accept you'll never have a normal sex life, this all suggests you now know he's gay and understand the relationship has no future. In your words: "That POS deserves to lose all respect. I gave him many chances to come clean which I know he'll never do. I even told him I was ok with, could still be friends, but never lovers but he starts his lies again." I think it's time to detach, grieve the end of your relationship, start healing, and move on. GIDHs are radioactive so long as they continue to deny their homosexuality so any time you spend with him will slowly kill you. Please take care of yourself first and stop wasting your time on this man. Thanks again for sharing your story.

Last edited by Séan (May 31, 2017 2:11 am)

lily · May 31, 2017 3:52 pm

Hi Scrupulous - Sean is right, time to get a bit of distance from him - once you accept that living well really is the best revenge you can put your focus there instead of on him.

The real problem is he's broken your heart. When I moved into my new home after 37 years of making a futile effort to make sense of marriage to a closet gay man, the first thing I did was have a good sleep. I had been scared a lot for quite some time. And then I had a good cry. I lay on the carpet and howled, I luxuriated in having my own place where I could express my feelings openly without him disapproving, and felt better for doing it.

I just think the man you are describing is someone you have no hope of getting any sort of sense from, and he certainly does not appear to have your best interests at heart so walk away, don't look back, be polite in any further interactions it takes to separate from him.

Nurse your broken heart. it will get better, we can tell you that from experience. and don't forget we are here to talk to. wishing you all the best. lily

Last edited by lily (May 31, 2017 3:59 pm)

Scrupulous · June 1, 2017 9:01 am

Thank you all for the help and you are so right! It's time to stop hating the men who do this and love the ones who don't. Lily I'm so sorry for all the pain you've had to endure. My heart goes out to you.
I will be stronger in time. Sean thanks again for helping me to see where I could down to his level. It's just so hard to move on esp when I don't have more evidence. Of course he's refusing to let go and is being as calm, patient and helpful as he can. But I know it will all come out in the end. Even if he hates himself and wants to change I don't think he can. This is a sick addiction that seems to spreading. I think the more it spreads the more men justify it. It's amazing how many of them admit to loving it and feel no remorse whatsoever. These are the GID ones and still claim to be straight. SMH.

Séan · June 1, 2017 2:38 pm

Thank you for your kind note Scrupulous and for the shout out Lily. This morning I was thinking back to when I myself was a gay in denial husband (or "GIDH") and it suddenly dawned on me. While married, I really believed I was straight...right until the bitter end in fact. From about the age of 5 or 6, I knew that I was attracted to boys but supressed it. That lie became a part of me. Marrying a woman was a very calculated attempt on my part to perpetuate the lie that I was a straight man. So what's my point?

I guess I have several points about how gay/straight couples struggle to reconcile the facts (cheating with men, Craigslist, and gay porn) with the husband's heartfelt denials. I believe any GIDH claiming, "I'm straight" truly believes it. I certainly did when I was closeted. I had a PhD in denial. Before marrying in my late 20s, I had a good 20+ years of hard-wired denial under my belt. This is why the straight spouse's "I think you're gay" intervention rarely results in, "Why yes I am. Thank you for asking." The denial is simply too embedded. Perhaps this is what's so confusing for gay/straight couples. Neither of them want to accept the truth because to accept the husband is gay would mean accepting a marriage was both a sham and is now tragically over. I think this is why I was stuck in the limbo stage with my (then) wife for about two years, after I'd come out to her. We held on because we were both afraid of actually being divorced.

I agree with Scrupulous that whether or not a man admits it, his actions confirm his sexuality. If he hasn't had regular, passionate sex with his (opposite sex) wife/partner for years (or even decades), something is seriously wrong with the relationship. A lack of intimacy alone is often why couples divorce. And if he's watched gay porn, posted on Craigslist, and hooked up with men for years (if not decades), whether he admits it or not, he's as gay as a rainbow. While he may never admit it, this is no longer his wife's problem nor her responsibility.

But the truth is hard and many of us continued to fight reality...even in the face of overwhelming proof of infidelity. I hope this helps my friends. Be well.

Last edited by Séan (June 2, 2017 9:00 am)

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