Yes, he is definitely trying to paint himself as a victim.  That way he doesn't have to have any accountability for his actions, because as a victim, they weren't his fault.  If he can get you to buy into that theory, then you would therefore need to help the victim or be seen as a heartless person.  The fact that you are HIS victim isn't even addressed.  If you even mentioned your own victimization, he'd consider you both as having been the victims of porn.  He doesn't hold himself responsible for ANY of his actions.  He owns nothing.

He's acting like he was forced to consume porn.  Or that some authority figure in his life (like a father) normalized it for him by watching it in front of him, telling him it was no big deal, and/or encouraging it. None of those things are true, from the original story you told.  Most boys have a brother, cousin or friend who introduce them to porn - at least they did back 30 years ago, before the internet.  Do all of THEM run out and start consuming gay porn and having penis fetishes?  No, they do not.  They stick to what excites them - just like your husband did.  Except that what excited your husband - even from the very beginning - was men.  He's trying to make it seem like the penis is a stand-alone part of a male.  As though isn't into men, just.... penises.  The fact that he ogles men in public (and yet can't see their penis since they have clothing on) shoots that excuse all to hell.  He's attracted to a certain kind of male - which is why once he sees one that is exciting to him, he goes back and imagines him naked.  He's doing the same exact thing men everywhere do - with women.  We've all heard the phrase "He was undressing me with his eyes".  Your husband is doing that to men, the same way millions of men a day do it with women.  They always imagine the attractive person with good "parts".  Never do they undress an attractive woman and see saggy boobs in their mind.  Neither does your husband undress a man and see anything but the kind of penis he'd like best to envision this male with.

Your husband has a severe problem.  He can claim it's not his fault because it started VERY young.  Which means that he can say that he wasn't aware when he was feeding this urge then that it would result in such a twisted adulthood.  I have no doubt that's true.  But he did HIDE his obsession, no doubt.  I'm sure he guarded that secret.  Because he knew he was indulging in something that wasn't good.  Even then, he KNEW.  He's known all along.  It's always had a hold on him, and he was its willing slave for a long time.  I think he still is - he just needs to make it seem like he's not, because then you'll feel sorry for him and swallow all those excuses for why he's so twisted now.

I don't know if this can be fixed now.  It's kind of late now that this has been an obsession for most of his life.  He's been gay since he was five.  And I do NOT believe that him meeting up with men never resulted in anything because he was always disappointed in how the men looked.  EVERY man was disappointing?  Really?  How can that be?  The men in most pornos aren't exactly Greek gods most of the time, anyway.  the only requirement seems to be a giant dick.  If being good looking was a requirement for him getting off, only a sliver of the videos would have done the trick for him, then.  He's telling you that he's never had an in-person experiencewith a man (or even a conversation - really?  How'd he meet up with these men if there wasn't conversation ahead of time?  And were there NO pics exchanged beforehand, either?  Unlikely).  He's saying that because to him, if he would have done that, that would have made him gay.  So since that's his boundary, he figures it's everyone else's, too.  So he'll just tell you he never crossed that line, so that you then think he's not *really* gay.

He's broken.  You can't fix him by staying with him.  Hell, even HE might not be able to fix him - even if that's what he wanted VERY badly.  If that were the case, he wouldn't be showing you stuff about WHY he's broken.  He'd be showing you things he's found that might help.  Some sort of sexual addiction course, or tools to use to stop letting him indulge.  If all he's doing is giving you reasons why he's twisted, then he's not looking to change - only to have an excuse for why he is this way.  He figures that'll give him a free pass or something.  He was not "brainwashed" in the traditional sense.  Brainwashing typically means that someone intended to change his way of thinking through specific tactics.  No one was trying to change him.  That's like a diabetic suing the chocolate companies for making them addicted to sugar.  They were just trying to sell something.  The fact that someone made it into a lifestyle doesn't mean that the addicted person can claim that they were intentionally "brainwashed".  The chocolate (and porn) industry never fed anyone the lie that less than 35 pieces a day just wasn't enough.  They just tasted good.  It was the consuer's responsibility not to turn their desire into a freaking addiction.  You can't reach 700 lbs. and then complain that it was all due to that very first chocolate square you had in 5th grade.  That's ludicrous and everyone knows it.  But somehow, he's expecting you to believe that the very first sexual act or consumption morphed into this.  Patently not true.  Eggerated for effect is all.

When it comes to you, all you can do is to protect yourself from being victimized.  Which means getting away from the person who keeps victimizing you.  No matter why they are that way.  You can't save him - you can only save you.  YOU have to save you; he will never do it for you.  He's either unable or unwilling to.  Whatever the reason, you need to be your own champion.

Kel

Last edited by Kel (May 3, 2017 2:30 pm)

The money shot...  The money shot, whether in gay or straight porn, is there to reinforce the fantasy of endless male potency.  Often in porn--gay or straight--the money shot also signals degradation and/or submission.  

The "what have you seen?" thing means there's more that you don't know, and it's different kinds of stuff than what you already know.  Yes, he's fishing.

And that excuse that there's more men online than women?  Ummmm,.... NOT! For God's sake, HOW did he EVER expect you to believe that?  Men are in all the porn because the men want to fantasize that they are the men in the video - being pleasured by that female.  The big dicks are there because who would want to fantasize that you're a guy with a small penis?  And the money shot's there because that's the end result they're going for.  If he's watching men on men vids, then he's one of those two men in his fantasy world.  Your therapist is dead on - straight men do.not.watch.men.on.men videos.

I agree about how they don't mention that they have a porn problem until you catch them.  Then THAT's the problem - not the lack of control, not the mental cheating, not the sexual confusion.  It's allllll porn's fault.  If it weren't for this dangerous porn, I wouldn't be this person!  And I'm only attracted to it because it's forbidden and naughty.  Riiiiight.  If it's so forbidden, then why are you not forbidding yourself from it?  Clearly it's NOT forbidden, in your life.

A man who wanted to control a porn problem would put parameters in place to do so.  He'd have blocking software installed on the computers.  He'd have reports going to you and to another person that was trying to help him overcome this.  He'd get a new f'ing hobby so he didn't have all this free time.  If all he's doing is blaming the porn for his apparently slave-like behavior, then he's not owning his part in this.  It's all a bunch of excuses and blame - none of which he intendes to wear.

Isn't it interesting that if a woman is sexually-driven, she's a whore.  But a man who is just as much if not more sexually driven has an addiction.  And everyone knows the drug is to blame.  So we're bad women if we like sex, but they're normal men if they like sex?  We're naughty if we look at porn, but they're normal?

One of the things I learned HERE so long ago was that we don't seem to know for certain that our spouse is *truly* gay unless they own that title.  But don't WE have the right to our own definition?  Do they just get to do ANYthing and declare that they're straight? It IS okay for us to say, "Actually, by MY definition, you are gay.  And I don't want to be married to someone who can only be satisfied by an individual of the sex that I am not.  So I deem this to be too much baggage, and out of my realm of what I'll accept.  This isn't what I signed up for.  Therefore, I'm moving on."  You do not need THEIR permission to see them as gay.  You do not need their permission to decide when you've had enough.  They will do everything in their power to normalize their behavior so they can firmly remain in the realm of normal/acceptable.  You don't have to swallow the hook just because they're dangling it out there with a worm on it.  You can decide that you're not interested in biting on any bait that has hooks behind it - no matter how tasty the bait is.

Kel
 

Last edited by Kel (May 5, 2017 12:40 pm)

Stonehouse,

I know what you mean, the kids seem to complicate things quite a bit. I feel like I'm fighting myself in ways now. There's the emotional 'do anything for family' side of me that says - this is going to hurt my son. He's just a little guy. Don't allow something harmful to happen in his life, just cover it up!

And the logical side of me that says - better for this baby to be from a broken home than perpetually living in one. What kind of role model can this man possibly be? He's screwed up everything so badly, what will he screw up in this child if I allow continued free rein exposure?

This porn addiction twist makes it less clear, yes, but I'm beginning to ask myself tougher questions. I'm asking myself where honesty, integrity and dignity are. I'm asking myself what kind of person submerges in porn to begin with. I'm looking at superficiality not just as a man, but a human being. I'm starting to look at what it takes for a guy to rip apart people, destroy an innocent child's family and future, all for the sake of getting his dick up.

I'm beginning to see many things.

You are asking the right questions.  And you are seeing the truth - that even when his problem became so big that it broke YOUR heart, it will still be about him and how broken HIS heart is now that you've left him emotionally.  I'm very familiar with this type of reasoning.  You get treated poorly by someone so often and to such extremes that you cut them out of your life in some way.  Maybe it's not seeing them anymore.  Maybe you stop expecting anything out of them but the company they provide when you're actually together.  And then they catch on.  They're insulted (they're insulted over us having to adjust expectations because they won't MEET any normal ones?!?!?  WTF???).  And they turn it all around and say, "See?  Do you see why I treat you this way in the first place?"  Umm, NO.  I DON'T see.  Because 1. I JUST started treating you this way, so you can't blame your treatment of me on something I wasn't doing when you treated me that way.  And 2. If I was treating you so poorly in the first place, then you should have told me, and then quit me if I didn't change.  Then..... 3.: NO ONE deserves to be treated the way you're treating me.  4. FUCK.OFF - I'm not an idiot.

On a completely separate note, the younger your child is, the easier divorce will be on them.  I marvel at people who think they should wait until their kids leave the house first.  What,... so the home they've known for 18+ years is gone forever the moment they step out the door?  May as well make that change while the child is too young to know what's going on and put any of the blame on themselves.  Let their new happy home be the new norm for them.

Kel