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Kel...
I like you. You're sassy. You're like my real life friends typically are.
I am 100% there with what you're saying but my own denial here is stifling. I almost feel like I DO need concrete proof. I'm having a hard time believing it even though I know it in my heart.
When the guy said that, my husband said nothing. If one of my girlfriends said something like that i wouldn't let it go... I'd bust on her at the very least.
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Also having people tell me he's not gay and I'm just making a big deal about it, doesn't help. I already have doubts that I'm losing my mind and making it all up in my own mind
To make matters worse, it would appear that menopause is beginning for me. No sign of my monthly curse and soooooo emotional.
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Kel wrote:
I'm cross-posting too, since I said this on the other thread as well. Straight men do NOT want other men to touch them or hit on them. It disgusts them and makes them very uncomfortable. Friends don't want to make friends feel uncomfortable.
A typical man would have said, "Ew! Shut the fuck up!" and hung up the phone on the other guy. And he would tell him in no uncertain terms at a different time that such behavior is NOT welcome, and that if it continued - even ONCE more - he's done with this friendship.
I always enjoy reading Kel's descriptions of how a straight man would act. It's funny to me.. but she's never wrong.
If a man called another man "sweetie pie" it would go one of two ways..
1.) If it was a good friend and it was said in a very clear joking fashion then the man would respond with another gay joke.. but in a way that is very clearly joking. Men will make these jokes.. but never leave any room for any confusion.
2.) If the response wasn't very clearly a joke, then str8 man would be very put off.. If there was any chance someone else might hear they would put the other man in their place right away. If it was totally in private, it would be very awkward and the str8 guy would tell him not to ever talk to him that way again.
Str8 men often joke about being gay. It's not a good thing. Male culture glorifies masculinity and being gay is the opposite (generally speaking), so that leads to making fun of gay people.. which leads to the problem that so many women on this forum have.. being married to a man who isn't willing to be made fun of for being gay.
So the truth is that most Str8 men are somewhat homophobic in how they present to the rest of the world. A straight man never wants to be mistaken for gay.. it's an insult and because we witnessed gay bashing and jokes during our childhoods, we never want to run the risk of that happening in the future. This doesn't mean that all str8 men hate gay men of course. That's absolutely not true. But they don't want to be confused for one so they will make sure there is never a doubt if something happens in public.
Lisa.. your husband is gay. If all the other information you have shared wasn't enough.. that simple phone call was undeniable proof for Kel and myself. No str8 man would allow himself to be called Sweetie Pie.. especially when followed up with the bit about being married to a female.
Kel is right.. time to stop wondering and start moving on.
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I guess I'm caught up in the needing to know, combined with not knowing what to do or how to move on. Part of me knows I will be considered the bad guy if I initiate the separation. I'm trying to be supportive while he gets back on his feet from the job loss also but that also leaves me in limbo. If I rock the boat now, it will hinder his ability to support his kids....and I can't do it by myself.
I guess I need to find more ways to be independent in the meantime.
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I have to wonder what my husband thought about the look on my face when I heard the guy say that
Also he was still going to have him do the yard and I mouthed to him NO!!!!!! So he said we already bought some supplies.
Earlier I was tearful about my body changing and he told me to go get a massage and then walked away. Guess I'll do exactly that.
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Lisa,
I think that in your mind, one needs an immense, unsolvable issue in their marriage in order to ever have divorce be an option. The kind of issue that NO.ONE would ever give you grief over leaving for. I get that - I used to think that way, too. I was most nervous about what the divorce would do to the kids, how I would support myself, and what everyone would think of me. While the first two fears were logistics, I cannot honestly say that the last one wans't just as important as the first two. As a people pleaser, I got a lot of affirmation out of what others thought of me. I felt like I would fold if I was met with too much opposition.
I think the other part of this is that since you feel you need an immense, iron-clad reason to get divorced, that means that if you find such a reason, you'll HAVE to leave. If you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was gay, it still wouldn't make it easy. It would just make you feel more entitled to leave. You feel like people would understand in that case.
I feel like you can't admit he's gay because that'd mean you need to leave. And you're not ready to do that. And.that's.okay. Really And truly. Rarely do people jump out of the pot without making sure they're not just jumping into the fire. You find it easier to be paralized and not making movement if you're unsure of the decision. But it IS okay to know that he's gay and that you're working on understanding how to proceed.
It's also okay to decide that the sum of the things he does makes you and your household very unhappy. And that since it's unlikely to change, you're done with suffering so that everyone but YOU can be happy. Would you want a good friend or a relative to stay miserable in their marriage just so they could have your approval? That'd be nuts. You think more about your kids and your ability to monetarily support yourself than anyone else will ever put into the decision. You don't need their approval to take your OWN life back! Don't discuss how it makes you think you feel - deliver your decisions as already being made. If people jump in to say, "But you can't get divorced!", then you say, "I'm not asking for your blessing or approval - I'm conveying my decision.
You can go the first step in your journey without needing to see the whole path.
Kel
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Lisa4,
Ditto on what Phoenix said about guys.. The phase "sweetie pie" to me would be met with WTF. In your case it almost implies some past history between your husband and the guy... but why should you have to wonder about that...
"... If I rock the boat now, it will hinder his ability to support his kids....and I can't do it by myself.
I guess I need to find more ways to be independent in the meantime.."
^^... this.
Do what needs to be done. You definitely want him to get a job ..for you and the kids. When I was going through this Kel was there saying "Rob get off your ass".. and I had explicit proof my ex was having a gay affair.. Rarely is life as simple as just kicking your spouse out and going on with your life. We have kids to take care of. One needs to be discrete, prudent, stoic, intelligent, calm and consistent when dealing with what is an emergency.
I wasn't so much stuck with indecision so much as still in shock at the things I had to do.. I was gathering strength and taking steps. In my time planning and detaching my ex filed for the divorce (as if in her mind) to prove that I did something wrong and she had to leave me. In reality she just couldn't take the silence she got in my response to hers..
Gather strength....detach emotionally and start taking steps for you. There is no set time rrame.. know that it is not forever. Snoop if you must but know that when you find the proof you're looking for you will still have to come to the same decisions. One needs strength and fortitude. Know that marriage is not about wondering if your husband is gay or seeing someone or what he is doing.
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I had a similar situation happen to me. April 1 was our anniversary. It was the first one she chose not to celebrate. I took the day off anyways because I knew I was going to be a wreck and decided we would do something with the kids instead. A couple days before I was having a bad day and my daughter came up to me and gave me a hag and she said hugs make everything better. I said thanks but hugs don't fix everything. She got upset and I heard my wife tell her your right hugs fix everything. You can not say stuff like this with my daughter she will run with it. So flash forward to the morning of our anniversary. I get woken up by my daughter and youngest son. Happy anniversary Daddy. Jumping around all excited. She says I'm going to go wake up mommy. It's your anniversary you two need love and HUGS. I tried stopping her talking her out of it. But she got a idea and she was going to run with it and off she goes. My first response was Oh f***. So I get upstairs in time to hear the end of the same anniversary wake up I got, followed by a very emotionless we are not celebrating. My daughter in tears and me bringing her back downstairs with me getting ready to answer a million questions on why mom is like that. When I hear doors slamming and here goes the fireball of wrath. I want to talk to you outside now. My daughter automatically jumped to my defense telling her to stop yelling at me that I did nothing wrong that it was her idea. By this time I am seeing red and just looked at her and said No I will not go out there because I did nothing wrong. Turned around and want back to calming down my daughter. The kids and I spent the rest of the morning together joking and talking and playing games together while she's sat in the front room alone on her phone. Until she bought back their love by suggesting to go see a movie. She has always bitched at me to not give them false hope. There was NEVER a apology. A sorry I was out of line. For some reason I am finding getting a honest apology out of our spouses when they fuck up or use us as emotionally punching bags is just never going to happen. Just remember this
It's easy to be an asshole when you can't smell your own shit.
Stay strong. Hugs. Lol
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DemonsHalo,
Yes, sound exactly like my ex..she would upset everyone and then go text her girlfriend .. I look back on my marriage and I dont see TGT but I see narcissism.never an apology about anything in our decade long marriage.. I can't recall her every crying either...But me and kids...tears and saying sorry all the time.
I am so glad to no have to live like that anymore. I can see your realizing what you're dealing with.
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It looks like he will be opening a restaurant soon which will occupy his time and provide us income again. I'm trying to plan when and how I will have my next conversation with him. In the meantime I am trying to start my own travel biz and maybe get a part time job.