Sean, thank you so much for answering my questions. Honestly, I was afraid to ask you those questions and I was also afraid you might not answer, that it might have been too personal. Thank you for doing so.  I came across a wordpress.com blog by accident and now I can't find the blog I read. The author is a gay man who also has a daughter and he is also concerned his daughter might fall into this same type of trap and he doesn't want this to happen and I thought of you when I read this on what your thoughts might be regarding what he wrote, thus my questions to you.  I was unsure if you even had a daughter. I was asking more as a generalization in regards to your own personal thoughts being member of the LGBT community. Sorry, I should have clarified.  

I also agree with Lily. I too, don't feel that the gay/straight marriage issues will ever go away. I don't see that happening and even if by some miracle this does, it won't happen for several years or even decades down the road. I think the possibility will always exist. The main reason I think so is that many gays and those who have used straight people was due - so they can have children. Instead of doing adoption or having a surrogate. It's cheaper to have a meaningless relationship and so many on this board have wondered if this is all their spouse only wanted them for. It's a logical assumption. I also feel the dialogue needs to come from the LGBT on what the future holds where our children's futures are concerned and the issues of marriages, especially the gay/straight marriage issue. Just like Lily said, straight people can't do this for fear of being labeled as gay bashing.

I hold no ill will toward any gay person. One of my best friends from childhood came out as gay after we graduated from high school and this was over 35 years ago.  Unfortunately, as so often happens, we've drifted apart and I would no longer feel comfortable asking him such questions. He is coming home for our high school reunion and begged to see me. I miss him very much, I have to much going on in my life right now and don't feel I'd be good company, especially meeting his significant other, which should a happy fun time. I really love him as friend and I always have and I always will.

Yet, I am of the mind and I know you may not agree and that is ok. I'm of the mind that being gay is a choice, I just want you to understand my own mind set. The reason I think this is because 26 studies have been done into SSA and especially trying to find the gay gene which as of this year still hasn't been found. Researcher and scientist have found what is called the warrior gene. Until the scientific community can prove a person is born gay, I'm afraid, I will remain in the "it's" a choice camp.  So for me, it's a choice. I also am a religious person and my religion does play a part in my thought process. I also am a christian who believes God is the only one allowed to judge, it wouldn't be right for me to do so. The book of Romans clearly says to let people live how they see fit and leave their judgement to God. I firmly believe this. No, I don't wish to get into the whole: choice, or born, nurture, or environment thing. People have their opinions, values, and beliefs and everything is fine either way with me. 

Once again, thank you for your response. 
 

Hello Sean, and thanks so much for continuing your mission to educate and support those of us discovering secrets and lies. I am new here and need clarity, please. I'll go into a bit of background as briefly as possible. I met my husband in 2005 while both of us were in a "Nut Hut" for depression over losing our FIRST marriages. Both of us had been married 18 years. We hooked up in the hospital and have been off and on together since then. From the moment I met him, I thought, "Oh, he's gay." But then a romance blossom that including so much passion and, yes, loving sex, I thought, "He's my soul-mate." We have had so many rocky times, when he couldn't sustain intimacy, when sex gradually become mechanical and he wouldn't touch my breasts or become enthused or aroused by my naked body. I'd like to say I'm super fit and considered "sexy" by most men. My husband is from a tiny, conservative southern town and he's a very prominent lawyer. I've been told by dozens of people that "everyone knows he's gay." I was also told that his first wife left him because she discovered him in bed with another man. She has denied this when I asked her. I was told she was "paid off." Here are some facts about him: He is obsessed with fitness and cycling. He rides his bike for hours, many hours most days. So on weekends, I hardly see him for up to 8 hours during the day because he's off biking, often with a huge group of men. They have even done trips across the country together. When not on his bike, he's "living" at the gym, working out all the time and so afraid of fat. He despises fat. On women. On men. He loves, loves loves planting an array of flowers all over his meticulous yard. He loves antiques, most musicals, but especially "Rent" which he's seen on Broadway a few times. He loves the shows, "The Voice" and "American Idol." His best friend on earth is gay. His top paralegal is gay. When he had a horrific bike accident, I stayed 8 days with him in the hospital. Every morning without fail, his gay best friend appeared with coffee and bagels. When my husband was discharged, this same man came to the house at night with fancy meals. He would then leave. Let me back up and say that when we married, I kept my house in a town 30 minutes away. He never wanted me to live with him. We'd see each other a couple times a week. When I finally did move in with him, it was HIS house with his first wife. He would never let us start fresh with "our" house. He also forced me to sign a pre-nup before marriage which leaves me PENNILESS and I'm the dependent spouse since I'm a novelist. It is my screeching gut instinct that I've been the "beard" this entire time. That he jumped to find a replacement wife, fearing his secret would surface. He makes me feel I'm going insane with the gay suspicions and flat-out denies it. He has three kids and his mother, quite conservative, is still living. His sister came out as a lesbian last year. The only reason I vacillate about the gay issue/question, is that he could actually perform fairly normally, if not robotically in the bedroom, even offering oral sex. I never found dildos/etc. though I did find a second cell where he was deleted parts of message threads. I found one where he was asking a man if he "wanted to go have a nice dinner" one Friday evening while I was away on a book tour. He also deletes history at his office computer. Please help me, Sean. Even if he weren't gay, he is still so unavailable and cruel, always abandoning me and then wanting to get back together with massive love bombing and makeup sex. Also, when we would have sex, he drank Sangria. Loads of it. He otherwise rarely drinks. Things are adding up. My best to you!
 

Sean this is going to be long!  LOL, hang in here with me! 

I am accepting of gays and if a person tells me they are gay, I'm fine with it because of my religious teachings. Many people I went to high school with are gay and two of my personal friends and a few co-workers and even family members (two cousins). How they choose to live is their business, it's none of my business. As I said, the bible in the book of Romans chapter six clearly tells Christians to leave each individuals judgement to God. If a person judges they are falling short of God's authority - not following His word and teachings. Therefore, it's not my place to judge anyone on anything. I treat people how I wish to be treated, with respect and honesty and to try to do goodwill toward all. Like everyone else I do fall short at times. I'll never be perfect, it's impossible for anyone. Unfortunately for me, God gave me an unending curiosity to gain any knowledge and not necessarily by life choices and decisions. Just to read to gain knowledge. I get the impression you are the same as me in this regard. 

I'm also, not a Christian who believes you can pray the gay away. I don't believe in such doctrine/dogma and I feel it hinders and is harmful instead of helping gays and their families. However, I don't feel it is wrong for any gay person to ask God and the Holy Spirit for guidance in their lives. If a person is gay, that is between God and themselves whether they believe in God or not.  A person must be accepting and open to and of the Holy Spirit to work in a person's life regardless of what they are facing. Be it drugs, addictions, homosexuality, infidelity in a marriage, child rearing, poverty, basis human needs...the list is endless. If a person rejects God's word and the Holy Spirit then they will never be open to the teaching of the Judaeo-Christian Bible and what the bible says regarding homosexuality. The bible and it's teaching will remain a locked and a undecipherable book to the unbelieving. The Holy Spirit will withhold the knowledge within. Bear with me, let me explain further on why I feel homosexuality is choice due to my religious upbringing. First some historical and christian background and knowledge since you stated you don't believe in God, which is fine and your right. Yet, it's also my right to believe. 

I also think the church fails in regards to the abomination teaching and the real reason for it. Some approve and are in agreement; yet, the majority of various faiths of Christianity do not and won't even discuss it. Which I find bewildering because it clearly states what is going on or what went on in Genesis Chapter 6 of the Old Testament. If a person has no understanding of this one chapter in the bible than I personally feel none of the bible will ever make a lick of sense. Most Christians won't even search it out, because to find the real evidence, you have to go to books outside of the official canon or what is referred to as the 'hidden books of the bible' or the agnostic canons. Please keep in mind, the Book of Mormon, The Catholic Bible and The Protestant Bible are all slightly different. I grew up in a Protestant faith. Also, keep in mind, the early ancient church is entirely different than the church of today. The early church knew all about homosexuality yet they never teach why it is an abomination just that it is. This is wrong, yet deep and conflicting on various views and teachings. 

The Book Of Enoch is a prime example, which the majority of Christianity reviews as blasphemous to the point people will fight over it, kill over doctrine which is also wrong. I've always been uneasy regarding the removal of various books from the bible at the Council of Nicaea in 333 - 335 B.C. by Constantine where the official canon was agreed upon for the Holy Roman Church and the Roman Empire. I'm told as a Christian I'm not to read such books just because a Roman Emperor said I couldn't or shouldn't, this council decided for me! This is mankind making the decision for me, not God; therefore, when someone or an institution tells me I can't read it then i say boo on them. I have a thirst for knowledge and I guess this makes me unconventional for a Christian. God told all manner of men/women from the early church to write down their knowledge. I think the Council of Nicaea did a harmful thing. What did they remove or add that God might not be in agreement with? We have no way of knowing fully and if what they removed might help or aggravate. The bible clearly states in the final book of the bible, the Book of Revelations that no man it take away or add to the holy teachings that God decreed be written down. In my view the Council of Nicaea did exactly that. 

I'm unconventional from the norm of Christians because I've done extensive research into the fallen angels and the nephilim which are the offspring of fallen angels and the daughters of men. I've also done research into bible prophecy for most of my life. Many within the church and church leadership denies or can't explain what Genesis Chapter Six is actually saying. I had one such minister tell me it didn't happen! Oh really I thought, then why is it in the very first book of the bible following the creation story? Most historians agree the first five books of the bible were written by Moses. Which are called the Torah. I mean actual historians and not just church historians. Ironically for me, this was a discussion with one of my professors I had and he also used to be a member of the same faith I grew up in and is an Ordained minister. I'm sure many Christians will be shocked to discover there are actually two Enoch(s). One from the Line of Abraham and one from the line of Cain. Maybe this is why the book of Enoch was removed from the official cannon because during the Council of Nicaea they couldn't determine which Enoch wrote this book. Understandable when taken in this context. 

Ok, now let me get to the meat of my thoughts and reasons how it might relate to homosexuality. From my research and understanding of the fallen angels according to the Book of Enoch (Lucifer and those who fell with him from the angelic host) the reason homosexuality is an abomination to God is due to three reasons. The first is according to the Book of Enoch, all manner of evilness was taught to mankind by the fallen angels such as: the use of fire, the making of weapons and how to make war on: nations, peoples, animals, bestiality, homosexuality, the black arts and knowledge of all evilness such as drinking of blood which is also an abomination. Second according to the official canon, it goes against the laws of creation that God established for His creation. If homosexuality was acceptable to God and His law(s) then homosexuals would naturally be able to bring worth offspring as heterosexuals have the ability to do and they would be in accordance with God's laws that He set forth for all creation and the universe. According to scriptures those who follow or live as a homosexual are actually following Lucifer aka Satan aka The Bright and Morning Star who rebelled against God which caused the war in heaven, which the Book of Enoch describes. Nobody really knows when the war in heaven took place, there is heavy debate on this topic within the churches or did it even happen? Therefore, according to the bible being a homosexual is a rebellion toward God regarding who He is and what He Stands for, which is the Creator of the entire universe and Judge of mankind. This rebellion of homosexuality flows over into God's laws on a proper marriage, and this is the third reason. The reasons for a proper marriage and how a man/woman are to live with each other, respect each other and do each's duty to the other. God's mandate to mankind is to go forth and populate the earth. Being a homosexual you can't do this if you never have congress with a woman. To reject ones wife/husband aka male/female and lay with the same sex according to God's law is a rebellion against God and place such individuals as being followers of God's enemy which is Lucifer aka Satan and his doctrine to rebel against anything God like.

Mankind according to the bible is the prize that God and Satan are battling for. Regardless of when a person lives, according to the bible none can escape this ongoing battle. This is an ongoing spiritual warfare that is fought everyday and has been for millennium, until the great tribulation and the end before Judgement.

Satan was in the garden of Eden and if he taught mankind true sin, then homosexuality has been there since the beginning. I know I'm going to make a few people mad here, yet, stop and think what does the apple that Eve partakes of truly represent? I've thought about it and here is my conclusion be it right or wrong. According to the bible she gained some type of forbidden knowledge and was forever punished for it. That punishment was to bare children and bring them forth - to do so she had to desire Adam. Why? Could her knowledge that she gained be of reproduction and creation of life or to bring forth life or perhaps just the knowledge of sex is what she actually discovered or Satan showed her? She offered this knowledge to Adam and for some reason felt it was wrong. They covered their naked bodies and were ashamed? Why? Satan knew what they would gain when he told Eve to partake of the tree of life. What is the tree of life? What brings life forth since the beginning of time whether you believe in God or not? Sex and the reproduction of life which is Godlike if you stop and think about it. Every time a child is born into life is a Godlike act according to the bible. You can't bring forth life if you don't have inter-congress. So for me that bloody apple was sex in all it's forms. Knowledge that mankind was never to have, yet Adam and Eve listened to Satan and not God, bringing the first sin into the world, having Godlike knowledge against God's will, the first sin.

From my understanding of years of research of conventional and unconventional teachings have come to this conclusion. Mankind was created to have free will on purpose. Free will and free choice to accept God and His laws to prove to the remaining angelic host (those that didn't rebel) that God is all powerful - He is omnipotent. This is mankind(s) true purpose, mankind is to be a witness to the remaining angelic host. Think of the end and judgement like an accountant working on his books. When the souls are counted for a yay or nay will be the final witness on who won or lost the souls of mankind. The final tally. Thus the remaining angelic host will be satisfied on God's final judgement on Satan, who was the first Angelic Being ever created for the Angelic Host. Mankind was created to be this witness for the Angelic Host in Satan's final judgement. We still don't know why Satan rebelled even though many say it was because of this or that. The bible already tells us who wins and that is God. It's a done deal. It's up to each individual to decide during the course of their life which team you play on by your life choices. 
God giving mankind free will then really comes down to life choices of his/her free will given by God. Everything in life is a choice, to accept God and His teachings or the free will to reject His Will and His teachings, given by God Himself even if you don't believe.  

Nobody can force a person to have sex unless it's rape or molestation, then the choice is taken away. It's a choice when you do as consenting adults. Regardless of your sexual identity. You can take advice and choose to pray the gay away yet if you reject God in your heart it won't matter. You're going to choose homosexuality because you don't fully believe what the bible says regarding homosexuality to begin with. 

Therefore, for me homosexuality is a choice due to my religious studies/beliefs and nothing will sway me from this. You said, you don't believe in God, which is fine, and in so doing you have freely used your free will and choice to accept or deny God. Which you have done, which to me is fine. God is the one who gave you the knowledge and the ability to exercise your free will and free choice even if you reject His existence. This is my firm belief. 

I feel Sean you are wrong to believe every christian feels this way, I can assure you they don't, just because a person believes in the bible. I do believe; yet, I'm not out harassing or causing gays any hardships and would reject anyone who does. Doesn't mean I'm not curious and have questions. It's the interpretation of said individuals behind pulpits which might be following an unholy or false spirit to cause chaos instead of true harmony in the world which God truly intended, yet Satan interfered with God's over all plan for His entire creation, which includes you and me. Satan lies and appears as holy - easily misleads persons into sin against God. 
  
Also, as per bible prophecy for the end-times. The bible is clear that all of these things must come to pass and return as the Days Of Noah (when all manor of sin and rebellion occurred because of the offspring of the Fallen Angels and their children - the nephilim which lived before and after the flood) for God's judgement and the Book of Revelations to be fulfilled. As the bible says there is nothing new under God's sun. Homosexuality has always been there, be it hidden as it was for so many years in modern times. Yet, historically speaking at times it was hidden and at times it wasn't. I'm not afraid of gays or hold any ill will toward them, because they are going to fulfill bible prophecy so why should I judge them or be afraid of them, hold any ill will toward them when they are in fact an instrument of God's will for the end? The only problem I would ever have with a gay man is if he raped my son against his wishes, then yes, I would have a problem with gays from then on. For anyone to deny male on male rape occurrs is truly lacking on knowledge. As a society this is something just like homosexuality which was never discussed in open society, especially in front of youth. Yet, historically it always occurred the same as rape and molestation on girls and women. Animal rape also occurrs even if we don't want to acknowledge this and flat out discuss this. It's a horrible reality. A man in Florida was recently caught by his neighbors raping his dog in his front yard and people begging him to stop. The authorities took his dogs away from him and his cache of herion. This man wouldn't stop until the police pulled him off the dog. Can you imagine being a parent walking your kids up the street and seeing that. God forbid. 

As a true christian they shouldn't hate gays, because this puts my own and their immortal soul in jeopardy. God also tells us to not be afraid of what is coming in the latter days such as the return of open homosexuality, just one of the many things that is returning in the final days. I accept it, according to God's word that homosexuality does exist and always has - always will to the end of time. This world is temporal and what happens in it, even homosexuality. 

I have no idea how God will judge those of a homosexual nature, regardless if they believe they were born/wired that way. If the bible is true, then he is going to judge me the same as he is you. Why should I be afraid of gays then? I shouldn't. I only need concern myself on how I treat them, according to Jesus' word to have compassion and mercy and live a life by faith.

If you say, you understood your homosexuality at the age of five or six, then I have to believe you and take you at your word. Which I do; I believe you and that you do believe this. Yet, you also need to be understanding of those individuals who believe it's a choice and respect their opinions. The reason I believe you, according to the bible the age of enlightenment and knowledge begins at around age 7 according to the old testament, thus perhaps why you had the knowledge at that age. I concede that it is a possibility based on God's word alone. All children are innocent of such knowledge until this event occurs. I'm still unsure how the Holy Spirits discerns this, and why this age group when knowledge starts to be understood. Persons of the Hebrew faith have a religious ceremony for this. It's different from the teenage one for those of the Hebrew faith. I can't recall the names of ceremonies right now. 

However, I'm also going to have to respectfully disagree with you. For me this comes down to environment and choice. All children are born innocent of any knowledge regarding sex.  For me it's a taught behavior, a learned behavior, a seen behavior, an environmental behavior. Children at a young age had to be exposed to sex somehow someway - babies have no knowledge of sex. Same as you I can only go by my own life experiences. I never knew what sex was until I started to read about it in health classes in school on reproductive anatomy. What my parents told me. When I started to put away childhood books and read for myself for my own enjoyment.

When I reached my early twenties I'll be honest with you I thought about it and knew instantly I leaned toward males. I also knew what the bible had taught me and it was easy for me to reject such ideas to act on them. After I concluded I'd never be into females, never had another thought about it. I'm strictly into males being a female. Yet, my understanding of the religious text also tells me if I'm going to live as a true Christian according to the written word and not what someone is preaching behind a pulpit then I do have to reject the act of homosexuality yet love the homosexual family and friends I do have, as a true Christian and just accept them.

I also expect them to accept my beliefs and respect me as a person as well and not judge me just because I believe differently. Not everyone is a gay basher. I don't believe in it. I don't want my cousins to be treated in such a fashion even though I'm against their choices due to my religion. Same for my close childhood friend. They grew up in the church the same as I did. They are free to live open and honestly with me and they know this because I'm one of the few in my family and our group of friends who has never rejected them, why because I love them as individuals and the joy they bring/brought to my life and our childhood together. One of my cousins never married and he died without children. My other cousin did live as a gay man for awhile and he has since married, had children, and also divorced. I have not heard from him in some time, since my aunt died and have no idea even where he is. Nobody in the family has heard from him. So I imagine he is off living the way he sees fit. My childhood friend also never married and came out back in the late 1970's when it was still unheard of and he also never married and has always lived a open gay life, a successful life. I'm happy for him, yet sad for my cousin who died, because his mom and dad couldn't accept it and he lived on the West Coast for years alone, and died on the road moving back home. I was also furious with my cousin (his sister) for how his funeral sermon was conducted and his funeral sermon was a sermon on the gay life being a sin against God. I was horrified and thought it in poor taste with his body lying in front of the minister. My son and I just looked at each other in horror by it all. Both of us couldn't believe it, my uncle had Alzheimers and didn't even understand that his son was dead. My aunt had died a few years prior to his death. I have never stepped my foot back in that church and I never will because of the minister's sermon of my cousin's death and what he used his death for. His death greatly affected me, he died of Aids. I have a funny feeling alot of people are going to find themselves in nay column on judgement day especially many who go to church. I haven't attened church in years due to the judemental attitude, I have to female cousins with this attitude and I can't abide them. They also judged me for being a divorced single mom, that I dared walk away from a husband who was an abusive GID or Bi husband, which none of them knew about. So Sean don't assume just because I'm a christian I automatically hate gays for I do not. I loved my cousin with all of my heart and he and my sister were the only ones who lived on this earth who truly knew me as a person, they both understood me. If anyone would have understood my marriage it would have been my cousin and I never got to talk to him about it. I'm not an easy person to get to know. Because of my former husband I've had trust issues for years. 

I hope this helps you understand me better. 

When it comes to the biblical stuff these are just my conclusions and why I live by them. Which in no ways discounts you as a person or you thoughts, advice, or feelings. 

Best wishes to you. Emerald.

 

 

Last edited by Emerald (April 8, 2017 11:20 pm)

My husband grew up in an extreme right-wing conservative mid-western family. He has a horrible relationship with his family and hadn't spoken to them since September, until two nights ago when he realized I may actually be seriously filing for divorce this time. In the 8 years I have endured his cycle of urges to be with men, lies, betrayals and his cycle of emotional abuse in which I always get love bombed and hoovered back in, I have asked him countless times to just try to go back to church with me. His entire education, through graduate school, was in private Christian institutions. He has been against church as long as I've known him.
In our five years of off and on counseling, individual and as a couple, he has been asked if he is just a gay man hiding his true feelings several times. His response is always the same: that is not me, I do not want that, that is not where I am, that is not the life I want.
Friday he went to a friend, who happens to be a pastor, and told him about all of his years of torment and struggles. I am certain he did not go into detail about all he's put me through, the coercion, the humiliation I've endured to please him. But, then again, it's not really about me; it never is.
And today he is in church. He begged me to go. His new religious fervor will certainly heal him, and he will never have urges to be with men again. This time it will be different, and we can have a happy family! If I can just get on board and be supportive. One. More. Time.
Honestly, I hope he does find some peace for his inner turmoil. Somehow. By himself. He needs it for himself and our kids. But, I don't have to live under the weight of him anymore. I don't have to put on a smile and pretend all the betrayals and pain of the past 8 years haven't crushed me into a shell of my former self.
I am allowed to save myself.

I read the post by Emerald, and have to say I know gay people who say they would never choose that, if they had a choice.  It would be much easier to be straight for a lot of these people.  I'm always confused when people quote the bible on homosexuality.  There are so many other things the bible says that are totally ignored.  The bible says not to wear gold or eat shellfish,and I think I remember something about a man not going to war or work the first year of marriage, among many other things. Also, I often think about Jesus saying love everyone, except gays, and don't judge anyone unless they are gay, and don't worry about the speck in your neighbors eye, worry about the plank in your own eye, unless your neighbor is gay. No, Jesus didn't say that, he didn't talk about that.  He spoke of love and acceptance.  Just think how much better the world would be with more love and acceptance and less hate and judgement.  I think there would be  a  lot fewer gays marrying straight people and that would save a lot of people a lot of heartache.