Séan wrote:

​Thanks for sharing. That must have been hell. Questions:

a. Do you believe your wife was always a narcissist or did it get worse closer to disclosure of the gay thing?
​b. Is she now out of the closet?
​c. How is your relationship these days?   

You may have missed it, but the Narcissist was my ex-mother-in-law, not my ex-wife. The problems I had with my ex-wife (prior to her coming out) were mostly that she would not stand up to her mother, and that she enabled her mother. Growing up with a NPD parent is no picnic of course, and it did shape my wife's personality. The way you deal with with a NPD person like that is you lie to them and tell them what you think they want to hear, and you try to win their approval, which is impossible. She picked up a number of learned behaviors from her mother, which made her somewhat narcissistic but not to the level of NPD. It increased some upon her coming out, but not significantly.

It was in that environment that she made nearly perfect grades in school, went into a career her mother approved of, married a man with a good income (me) and moved into a house in an upscale suburb and had two kids, a boy and a girl. She said that was what she wanted in life, in fact that is what her mother wanted for her, and whether she realized it or not she was trying to win her mother's approval. Being a lesbian was not part of the equation.

She actually came out to her mother before me. Her mother was of course appalled, that doesn't happen in nice families. According to her mother, the mother suffers the most from having a daughter come out... forget about me, I'm just the dumb husband, breadwinner, sperm donor...

A few trips to PFLAG convinced her mother, surprisingly, that it wasn't such a bad thing after all. And if she could accept it, why couldn't I. 

In answer to your questions, my ex and I had a civil relationship after we split, bordering on friendly. I was relieved to not have to deal with her mother on a daily to weekly basis. She stopped all pretense of hiding when our son graduated HS, she was afraid he would be bullied if it got out before. She died of cancer in 2012. That really is the worst thing that can happen to a parent, but I hate to say I felt much more sympathy for my kids than for her mother.

My daughter has fallen to the role of lying to/enabling her grandmother. My son, frustrated with his dealings with his grandmother, researched NPD and decided to cut off all ties.

Séan wrote:

4. What you are describing, I think is a growing sense of entitlement or selfishness that comes from suppressing what you are and being unhappy with or ashamed of yourself for having to suppress it.

​100% agree. But isn't this textbook narcissism? If we gay spouses don't suffer from NPD, why then do we all use the same narc tactics (like gaslighting and projecting) on our straight spouses? The similarities are striking. 

Again, maybe semantics. I think, however, the gaslighting and projecting behaviors are more about trying to control a situation which is spiraling out of control. Yes, my ex asked me at one point if I was sure I wasn't gay. There was some gaslighting near the end. But I think it was situational, and it waned as she came out and accepted herself for who she was, rather than who her mother wanted her to be.

Séan wrote:

​Does that make any sense? Regardless of the labels, NPD or self-centred, Sam I think we mostly agree. What you call self-centredness or self-entitlement is what I call narcissistic personality disorder. I think they exist on a spectrum: from self-centredness; to NPD; to sociopath; to psychopath. I believe I went from self-centred to NPD and then back to self-centred following my coming out. I'd love for you to share more Sam to explain your point.   
 

Like I said, I think it is situational. The personalities of most "classic" NPD people are formed in their teens or earlier, and hardly ever change. Or course it is a spectrum, and of course there can be some change.

just to add my 2 cents worth - how about looking at it from the other angle.  Born gay right?  we all agree you're born that way and it doesn't change.  What about born narcissist, doesn't change either.

My father was a narcissist.  My mother was a very nice woman.  I have two brothers.   He has a nicer nature than his father but one of them is a narcissist.  We have all always known this.  My mother used to try and teach him how to be considerate of others when we were young - it didn't work.   He was always likeable tho.  Just don't be in his way.





                                         

Nobody questions that oh you got the shape of your nose from your father and your hair colour from your mother - and we all know this and always have.  The apple never falls far from the tree was an old saying.  When my great uncle discovered that his fiancee had epilepsy he refused to have children with her, tho he still married her.  Miserable isn't it.  The idea of getting married knowing it's going to be an unhappy marriage seems horrific to me.

A father would always like to get that reassuring pat on the back - your son is a chip off the old block - confirmation he is not a cuckold.

Can you imagine all the lies that have been told down the generations?

If you have a bad temper that will be from a grandparent.  If you are gay that will be down to the tooth fairy.  and if you are a narcissist (formerly known as an egotist and before that as selfish) lets blame the parents for your upbringing.  But we all know babies are all different, show their personality from the start.  We might not admit it but we all know that kid in the group who was nasty, the bully to watch out for, the one who was selfish, the one who was kind.

You can't change your nature. 

Asking my ex to do without his closet would be like asking a snail to do without it's shell.  And he didn't care that it was bruising me.

After reading here for a few years the view I have formed is that the gay spouse who abandons their closet tends to do so because they have fallen in love with someone of the same sex.  My ex fell in love with a man and got rejected when he was very young, before he met me.  I don't think he ever fell in love again.  His closet never pinched on him that way, only on me.

I've struggled to understand how it didn't matter to my ex that I was suffering - it's so selfish.  For us nice straight spouses, our first thoughts are caring about the welfare of our partner.

 

Last edited by lily (March 12, 2017 4:13 pm)

Thanks JK. I hope you and your children are well. Good luck with your divorce March 21st. We'll all be thinking of you and your family next Tuesday. With regards to your post:

"Another memory just popped into my head:  When my oldest son was in about 3rd grade, we were playing the game "Life".  He earned a spouse (Is that the terminology?  If so, very odd!).  Anyway, he had his little blue self in the car and picked a blue person to be his "spouse".  He laughed and said, "I'm going gay!"  I just said, "okie dokie" and continued to play the game."

Wow! I am always astounded at how kind, brave, and open-minded straight spouses. Given how much you've suffered, you all have every right to be card-carrying homophones. And yet you've chosen to be open and accepting. You might have just saved a straight spouse a lifetime of heartache.

​I appreciate your posts as well JK. You and so many other members are showing us, both gay and straight, how quickly we can heal when we let go of anger and resentment. While anger is an important part of the healing process, I need to remember that a life based on anger is as damaging as a life based on living the closet. Thanks again. 

I think you are correct Sean.  The "Happy Blogger" lives a very public persona and is being extremely careful to protect that persona.  I'm sure they understand that due to their "fame" their legacy will be read later by their kids and they are doing what is necessary to tell the story they want their kids to hear. 

I think all of this is very understandable.  I'm sure we would all try to handle the situation in the same way if we were in that public eye.  So, I have zero criticism of *her*..   

I do wish for our sake (all str8 spouses) that she would air some dirty laundry.  Our community is forgotten and discarded.  We stay silent because we are kind and compassionate and frequently have kids to protect, while society pats our spouses on the back and says "good job, you are so brave, way to be honest with yourself and live authentically".   When the truth is that they deserve to be shamed for living a lie for so long and destroying other people's lives to protect that lie.  So i wish the "Happy Blogger" would share the honestly of the situation.  I wish we all could do that.  I want to see some recognition for straight spouses.  I want to see some compassion.  I want to see a journalist cover a "coming out" and instead of patting the gay person on the back, I'd like to see them ask the hard questions about why they thought it was OK to screw over their spouse.  

as long as I'm on my soapbox... 
My Lesex sent me a clip to a gay couple who told their stories about how happy they are today.. They each were married to a woman, one of them with a daughter.  They one with the daughter somehow got primary custody of the girl as well.  So my ex was keyed in on how happy and wonderful their life was, while I kept wondering what happened to the two spouses.. one of which was completely screwed because she lost her daughter as well.   Arghh.. makes me so angry.   I want Str8 Spouses to speak up and get some airtime.  I want this because I want people who are gay to stop and think about what damage they will do if they try to hide their SSA from the world.  Just chose not to get married...  Even if you think you love that person..  don't play with their lives when you are not sure about your own. 


ok.. done venting..   Thanks!