OurPath (formerly SSN) Open Forum » Healing without admission & his continued denial

mlfroc2017 · February 28, 2017 4:54 pm

I am recently divorced from my ex-husband of 7 years (romantic relationship for 10 years & friendship for 17 years) who I believe is gay. He denies all evidence I’ve found online (posting to a blog for advice (name, age, # years married, no kids & signature line match), Craigslist post trolling for sex with men at a strip club, openly flirting with a gay man at NYE, kissing a guy in college over Truth or Dare) and has been with another woman (one of many affairs during our marriage) since before he even said he wanted a divorce. I have reason to also suspect that he had affairs with male co-workers during our marriage. During our marriage I was completely blind to any indications as I was completely trusting of my husband, especially since we had been platonic friends for 6 years before ever being romantically involved. Beginning in 2015 we were living apart for one year (due to a training contract for the end of my doctoral degree training) and he unexpectedly told me on Skype that he needed “time, like a separation”. He wouldn’t tell me anything as to why, claimed he was going to counseling, and did not speak to me for 3 weeks. He then told me on Skype 3 days before I was to return to FL to defend my dissertation and 3 months before I was to return to our home in FL that he wanted a divorce. Vague bullshit reasons (e.g. "I’m better outside of this marriage. It will be better in the end for both of us because you will find someone who loves you the way you deserve.”) saying he had been thinking of divorce for years. He moved very fast with trying to demand paperwork be filed, etc. Through the grace of God I found online blog posts (posted a few days before moving me out of state for the year) and Craigslists posts indicating his being gay. During this time I also went back through 17 years of history and recalled other related information (e.g. he flirted with a gay man when drunk at NYE, kissed a guy in college in a game of Truth or Dare, constantly making projective microaggressions toward men on TV “I think he’s gay.”). I confronted him with the information and he denied it was him. What prompted him asking for the divorce was the woman he had an affair with got a divorce (her husband left her when he learned of their affair over 1 year prior) and went running to him. He has also denied having an affair with her and said he was able to get with her so quickly after saying divorce because our marriage had been over to him for awhile. Although I try very hard to not look up any information about him (I do not have social media), I am struggling with his continued relationship with her and how it seems that the longer he stays with her the more my truth of this gets diminished and nullified. I so so badly wish for what so many other straight spouses got - the admission. I struggle with why he gets to be happy when I still struggle in being alone and unwanted everyday. I am a psychologist that has established some roots in the town that saved me during the crisis.This city is also in the top 5 of the country as LGBTQ friendly cities which doesn't make connecting in my community very easy for me. I have connected with some local straight spouses who all got the admission. I have a relationship with God and rely much on prayer, my family and friends, my therapist, 2 dogs, the house I bought, amazing developing career, and other healthy activities. I maintained an identity in my marriage and felt that I was happy as an individual and also as a wife. I’m struggling with how these activities and new path just do not fill the hole in my life that I have from losing my marriage, best friend, and role as a wife. I logically understand and accept the reality of who he is (gay narcissist abuser), emotionally it is much harder because I was genuinely and blindly happy. Being alone is and isn’t a struggle. I enjoy parts of being alone and I sometimes struggle with feeling that I must have done something wrong to be left by him for her (an immoral woman who many people say is not my equal) and why God has put me in this and keeps dragging me through it without any peace and what I need 1) an admission or 2) some hope to find true real love in a relationship with a man. Any support is greatly appreciated.

Last edited by mlfroc2017 (February 28, 2017 5:07 pm)

Rob · February 28, 2017 5:56 pm

mlfroc2017,

A sad but warm welcome.

"..the longer he stays with her the more my truth of this gets diminished and nullified. I so so badly wish for what so many other straight spouses got - the admission. I struggle with why he gets to be happy when I still struggle in being alone and unwanted everyday. "

I still struggle with many of those things.. I have undeniable evidence but no verbal admission from my ex.
She continues to see her girlfriend (in public they are "just friends"). I have some bitterness I'm alone and she still has her girlfriend lover.    Very easy to start thinking of ourselves as unwanted, discarded, etc..

BUT...

Alone is ok.. its much better than staying with someone that doesn't want you and who abuses you and lies to you.

If my ex was with man it would have meant I had some chance at saving the marriage. But it would still make her the immoral, horrible person that she is.    She became so cruel.     The gay thing just makes what she did more horrible..it throws into question our entire past. Makes her adultery (lets be honest today) irrevocable.
It's really scary ..I do not want to be with someone that is capable of the immorality and cruelty she has.

I don't think we will ever get an admission.. I know I won't ...my ex will continue to say I caused our divorce and hide her gayness to family and most friends.   Its a crazy way to live for her.   And she is not happy..at least from what I can tell. Do not believe that your husband and this woman will ever be truly happy...think about about it..they are 2 cheaters (and if she has kids; 2 homewreckers).   Will they ever have true trust between them.. I don't know how our cheating spouses do it.. My ex if she goes out with another friend the girlfriend will be jealous. Your husband..if he goes out with another woman or man.. his girlfriend will be jealous (she should be). I say just be glad he is this woman's problem now...let her deal with his issues. God forbid he break up with her and want you back...now you would have to live with his issues..is he going to meet his pals for a beer or sex ?

So yes; 1) an admission would help us ...if they would just own it.. but my ex (and your husband I suspect) are narcissist...the fault always lies with someone else.. they can never be at fault.   I know I just need to be at peace with it.   It may take time because if your like me..we gave true unconditional fierce love. It is a loss that needs time to heal... we cannot discard and move on as they can.. we are authentic.
2) True love with someone else is possible I think..   maybe not now.   We would need to learn to trust again. Many here have done it and I look to them for hope.   I say for now, for me, alone is ok...its better than being with them.. it need not be forever. Its another season in our lives.. but SO much better than being with a lying, cheating, gay spouse.

To conclude.. and possibly cheer you up and maybe even other really kind souls here..
As a straight guy;
I'm actually a bit jealous because I don't have any dogs.   When you describe your life; single , 2 dogs, active, christian..it all sounds good to me and I want to ask for a phone number. Don't think of yourself as unwanted.

A sincere e-hug

Last edited by Rob (February 28, 2017 5:59 pm)

mlfroc2017 · February 28, 2017 9:01 pm

Greetings Rob,

Thanks for the reply. I thought it might be weeks or months before anyone might respond. Many of the things you wrote surely rang true regarding how I lived and loved unconditionally in my marriage as well as to the type of woman she is (has 3 kids and cheated on her ex-husband more than just with my ex-husband). The ways in which they had their affair was also despicable (on work time, on work premises). And there is no question in my mind that the entire past and relationship we had was a farce. I was a beard and best attempt for him to convince his rural Pennsyvania friends and family and himself that he wasn't gay. Looking back how we began dating was even weird for mid 20's. Who asks a girl to be their girlfriend via long distance without ever kissing or sleeping with her?! I was blind because he was my best friend. Like I said I'm okay with alone and sometimes not okay with it. I certainly prefer it to what was the unknown reality of my marriage. As a friend so eloquently put it, "Meghan you don't have the huge growth curve ("I get to rediscover myself -yipee!") that many people experience when their marriages end, because you didn't lose yourself or individuality in you marriage. So it feels like and is just mostly loss so much loss." Which much (his family, friends, etc.) I've come to peace about losing.

When I finished reading back his own blog post about being gay, the first thing I told him was that "I want you to know that #1 I'm honored to had been the woman that you tried to live a straight life with. I won't hurt you with this information and I'll respect whatever process you need." He responded with denial and scoffing at my attempt to create a safe space. Psychologist in me I guess. His parents and sister also ended all communication with me when I finally shared with them the truth about what he had been doing. I believe they knew all along and had hoped his marriage to me would "change him". They are embarrassed and ashamed in many ways.

My life for the past 7-8 months probably looks appealing to many except for single men that I meet. No ties like kids or financial debt from the ex, quaint house, dogs, successful developing career that I love with affirming mentors that I continue to be humbled by nearly every single day, 2 volunteer positions, wonderful family that I couldn't ask for better, friends, and many other blessings. I've even become quite witty in my jokes about having a gay ex-husband that friends will laugh with (Geesh Meghan he cooked while you changed the car batteries. Obvious?! lol). However being in my mid-30s I'm surrounded by happily married friends and their children and families who I've embraced, but it is still a reminder of what I do not have when I go home alone. It's hard to hear so many people say "how are you single?! aren't men lining up?!" when in fact the opposite is true. I refuse to do online dating or apps and I don't have a single social media outlet (due to career). I really prefer to meet people organically and I love my life without social media. Sifting out the bullshit that people say just to make me feel better vs. real perceptions is difficult especially when the one I had put full faith and love into walked the walk and talked the talk but on both sides of the fence.

Thanks for the kind words and hope.

Last edited by mlfroc2017 (February 28, 2017 10:01 pm)

phoenix · March 1, 2017 12:13 pm

mlfroc2017,

Welcome to our group. I'm so sorry you find yourself here. We say this often, but it's true.. you are part of the club that nobody every wants to be part of. But now that you are here, I pray that you will find this forum to be a huge help to you.

It is so hard for a married person to find out that their spouse has cheated on them. There are few things in life that are more painful. I'm so sorry that your husband has been a fraud and a cheat. You didn't deserve that and it's not your fault. Please don't believe for a second that this is your fault. You loved him unconditionally. You didn't cause his same-sex attraction. Like most of us on this forum, you were lied to by a person who wasn't willing to admit to the world or even to themselves that they are different. These lies are the most strongly held of any lie by any person.. they are absolutely professional liars because they have crafted their entire existence upon keeping this lie hidden from the world. So don't feel like you should be blamed.. even if you can look back now and see signs.

Since you shared some religious beliefs, I would like to share a couple of thoughts from my own walk that I hope will be helpful to you. (*I'm a non-denominational Christian and it's a very strong part of my life. Since this forum is not religiously affiliated I try to keep those thoughts to myself unless the other party brings it up first).

-Why haven't you gotten an admission? Because this is the biggest secret in the world and he has devoted his life to protecting it. He might admit it someday when he feels ready to admit his sexuality.. or he might never admit it. But you can't get stuck where you are waiting for that admission. You know the truth already. You had all the justification you needed to get a divorce. You did nothing wrong. Don't wait for his admission to justify your actions. You did the right thing.

-Why has God put you through this?
I don't believe God intentionally brings harm to us, but he does allow us to experience trials here on earth. These trials make us grow as people and as Christians. They test our faith and strengthen us. They give Him an opportunity to reveal His love to us. They open up new avenues and new possibilities that we have no chance to see until our lives change. They give us the experience and wisdom to share with others so that we can demonstrate His love to our friends and neighbors. They give him an excuse to bless us richly.. beyond our imaginations for enduring the trials of our lives and remaining steadfast in our love for Him.

I love this passage: 1 Peter 1:6-8=11px "In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer various trials, so that the authenticity of your faith — more precious than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire — may result in praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Though you have not seen Him, you love Him; and though you do not see Him now, you believe in Him and rejoice with an inexpressible and glorious joy,…"

Don't be discouraged if you these words don't resonate with you yet. Our perspectives change over time. When i was in the midst of the trauma I heard people offer me hope from a Biblical perspective and it fell on deaf ears. I just wasn't ready for it. I could register the words in my brain and they made some sense, but I couldn't translate that to my heart because it was so filled with grief. So don't worry about it now.. it will come with time.

It took me many months to see anything positive at all. I couldn't understand why God would allow this awful tragedy to take place in my life. It was especially painful because I undertook my courting and marriage in the "correct way" according to my religious beliefs. I was 100% faithful and committed for my entire marriage, never straying despite the lack of intimacy. So if I was faithful in my choice of who to marry and faithful my commitment to that decision, why was God allowing this tragedy. I just couldn't see it and it hurt so much. Now I can look back and I see that this has made me incredibly strong, refined my heart and my faith in Him, given me an outreach opportunity to help others get through the trauma that I endured, and allowed me to experience the pain necessary to truly feel happy in the future. I know that God used me to bless a woman who I married for 16 years and create two spectacular children. My ex chose to move in a different direction because she has free will. But now I have the chance to breathe life and blessings into another woman and perhaps more children in the future. Where I previously saw nothing but pain.. no redeeming opportunities, I now see a rich opportunity and so much hope in the future.

-Hope to find real true love. I have zero doubt in my mind that you will find someone when the time is right. You are a major catch! You are young, brilliant, successful, well connected, loved by family and friends. It will happen.. I have no doubt. If right now you are looking for hope.. have hope. Hope is a wonderful thing. There is no reason why you should not have hope. Trust that the Lord will bring the right person into your life when the timing is right for you.

A follow up question.. Are you ready to be in love right now?
Are you looking for a man to fix you? to protect you? to nurture you? Is your desire to be in a relationship about filling your own needs? Or, are you ready to find someone to start giving to in a relationship? Are you able to trust again when things start to get serious or will you find out that you aren't there yet?

If your reasons for wanting a relationship are not right yet, or you are not healthy enough mentally, then you won't have a successful relationship and it will wind up to be a setback to you and make things harder in the long run.

Have hope Meghan.. God loves you and wants nothing but the best for you. Sometimes we have to walk through the valley to reach the mountains on the other side and without feeling the pain and grief in that valley we don't realize how amazing the good times are later.

Please keep posting.. anything and everything you want to talk about. We are here for you. If you want to talk more with me directly, feel free to private message me.

Kel · March 1, 2017 12:41 pm

mlfroc,

You do not need HIM to admit to being gay in order to draw conclusions from your own findings. The truth is that he doesn't want "I'm gay" to be his truth. Therefore he will deny it, and maybe it'll go away. The gay thing is unusual in that there is no other thing I can think of where the action doesn't label the individual committing it. If you get married, you are.... married. If you abuse children, you are an.... abuser. If you kill someone, you are a......killer. But if you are a man sleeping with men, you are not..... gay? Apparently not unless you want to label yourself that way. And they don't.

NONE of this precludes YOU from deciding that his actions tell you that he is gay. After all, people are found guilty in court all the time for things they don't admit to - but the evidence is there. They are judged on the evidence. And you have that. If you had vague feelings that he were gay, but no evidence and no admission, I could understand you feeling confusion. But you have your answer, and you know it At some point, you're going to need to be okay with knowing the truth on your own - outside of whether he'll admit it or not. The truth is the truth - it doesn't hinge on people believing in it. It just..... IS. And he is gay. Period. You have all the validation you need. He's been lying to you for years - he's not suddenly going to be a stand-up guy and tell you what you want for YOUR sake. He's been doing him all along. He will continue to do that. Take that as a sign that you are free from a lying narcissist and be happy for that.

He didn't leave you because of you. You KNOW this. He has no concrete examples of what's wrong other than "It hasn't been working for a while". He moved on before you could even catch your breath. That means there were outside forces at work here. That had NOTHING to do with you. Maybe she is easier to manipulate and control. Maybe she's fine with him being bisexual. Maybe, maybe, maybe. All I know is that you didn't even need to decide if you wanted to be supportive of his issues - he essentially told you that he found someone else to put up with his bullshit better. FINE. She's better at swallowing bullshit. So.be.it. You don't want to win that contest.

You have everything you need to make a life for yourself. You might meet someone out and about, or you might need to get a bit more aggressive about that. You can say that you prefer to meet people the old fashioned way, but unless there are others in that pool, the fishing will be poor. I think men have had so much in-person rejection and being told that they need to stop assuming that we ladies are there for the taking, and so they've clammed up and gone to online ways. If you prefer meeting someone in-person first, look for area activities that you can take part in to foster that. I know there is a company called Events and Adventures here where you can sign up for sky diving, wine tasting, bowling, hiking, volleyball, fireworks, horseback riding, concerts, etc. Everyone there is single and interested in something that you're also interested in. If you don't have something like that where you live, consider going online for ideas and then signing up for some similar things yourself. And then you're also going to have to be open to talking to others without it all being about how you just went through all of this. If you can't do that yet, you're not ready to date yet. And that's okay. I feel strongly that if you're still grappling with why you weren't good enough for your ex, you aren't in any position to try to pitch yourself to a new guy. Take the time you need, and you'll get there.

I wish you peace and acceptance. This is YOUR life. YOU are entitled to say that your ex is gay without your ex saying he's gay.

Kel

p.s. - most of us here did NOT get an admittance, by the way.

mlfroc2017 · March 3, 2017 5:54 pm

Thanks to everyone for their replies and support.

Lostdad
".. they are absolutely professional liars because they have crafted their entire existence upon keeping this lie hidden from the world."
"Because this is the biggest secret in the world and he has devoted his life to protecting it."
- Thanks for these. It helps someone like myself who tries to live a very authentic, honest, and transparent life gain perspective of someone who doesn't.

"A follow up question.. Are you ready to be in love right now?
Are you looking for a man to fix you? to protect you? to nurture you? Is your desire to be in a relationship about filling your own needs? Or, are you ready to find someone to start giving to in a relationship? Are you able to trust again when things start to get serious or will you find out that you aren't there yet?"

In response to that. I have never gotten into a relationship to fill my own needs. I have always been the one who gave and trusted. There is no way to predict where I will be in regards to trust if and when something with someone develops, because I only get 50%. That will depend upon what the other person demonstrates and if they deserve my trust. What I do know is that I'm not closed off to it.

Thank you for the scripture and the religious lens on this perspective.

Kel
I much appreciated your reply and affirmations of what I know that I know. I've felt firm in my conviction of his being gay for awhile now it's just been difficult as he continues with the new beard and it messes with my mind and emotions sometimes. I feel quite certain that she lives in his denial and knows nothing of his attraction to men and truly being gay. I'd bet he painted me to be "crazy" and to had "made it all up" telling her he isn't gay cause he had an affair in our marriage with her. She's so desperate to not be an older single mother of 3 that wrecked her home and family with a good man (her ex is a good guy) that she will believe whatever he says.
Thanks also for your perspective about how men may be clamming up and going online. Although my demeanor is not intimidating, men may find my success and quick wit to be intimidating. I've connected with activities in my community well enough and I'm content with that and how that is evolving for me within financial reason. Money is also tight as a divorced doctor with student loans that he contributed to and trying to completely re-furninsh and re-build basic belongings to live.

In general I have felt for a few months now that I've come out of the crisis and heaviest parts of the grief. Some holidays and events bring up thoughts and feelings of loss, but I'm generally well into the healing process. I'm not regularly grasping with feeling not good enough for him. It just comes up at times, especially as I continue to be rejected by men. It's not just him that those feelings apply to. I'm of course working on those in therapy. I began my posting here to help get me through those moments, which are far and few between compared to 7+ months ago.

Thank you all for being there for those moments.

My best,

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February 28, 2017 4:54 pm #1

Healing without admission & his continued denial

February 28, 2017 5:56 pm #2

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February 28, 2017 9:01 pm #3

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March 1, 2017 12:13 pm #4

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March 1, 2017 12:41 pm #5

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