Thanks Kel and others for your recent shares. I'd like to re-post some recent shares from JenS and KK. 

JenS shared:

1. I think part of the reason for it is that those of us who live with GID narcissists have been brainwashed for years and we need to re-train and re-wire our thinking patterns.  This is hard work. That's why the repetition of the message helps;  the message that we are okay, keep going, etc.

You're on the right track JenS so please keep sharing!  
 
2. There have been so many layers and layers to what I have gone through since I came to terms with the fact that he was GID and abusive. I feel like it's taken me forever.  And now, when I'm really tired and just want peace I have to navigate this expensive, nasty divorce and get my kids through to the other side while he remains in denial.   After I served him with divorce papers he took the kids to choose a sports car for me - a fancy, expensive car.   He left it in the driveway as a surprise. 

This is classic narc. I'm not going to lie to you Jen, your husband is going to be a formidable opponent. As a recovering narcissist, I know from experience that we are obsessed with appearances and what others think of us. Buying you a car did several things: first, it was designed to make you question your decision to divorce; second, by involving your kids, he's trying to show them you're the bad spouse who wants to divorce; and third, he's showing the world what a wonderful husband he is to have bought you a car. In his mind, the proof he's such a great guy is now parked in your driveway. Your husband is a highly intelligent and manipulative man. 

3. One of the things that makes me saddest is that I've lost friends and family over this because they can see that he's bad for me and emotionally abusive (perhaps to my kids as well) and I need their support right now, but they can't be there.  Maybe it's too hard to watch or maybe it's taken to long or maybe they have their own stuff.   I just know that this is a lonely road.  Eventually, I need friends and a social life but sometimes I feel like - after this - maybe I'm not normal and I'll always be alone.   I've always been alone but to the outside world it looks like I have a happy "perfect" life.   My neighbour actually congratulated me on being able to "land' such a catch of a man.... she did this just the other day.   
 
I'm so sorry you're feeling alone Jen. It's quite common for narcissists or sociopaths to isolate their partners. They do this to ensure you're focusing exclusively on them and their needs. It also makes you easier to manipulate/control. I'd recommend you reconnect with friends and family. If possible, spend a week away from your damaged husband to have time with people who love you more than they love your marriage. This will give you some freedom from his manipulations. 

4. My divorce is so difficult that my lawyer advised me that she can no longer represent me and she is seeking her own personal therapy to deal with it.   I'm not making this up.  She couldn't handle his narcissistic abuse. In my state, I'll need to put up a substantial retainer to get a new lawyer once I find one and this will add months to the process.

I'd recommend contacting several therapists in your region who specialize in couples therapy for people with narcissistic personality disorder. They should also be able to recommend a lawyer who has experience dealing with narcissists. 
 
KK shared:

1. I realize it may be exasperating to some but, for me, I still have hope of an amicable, if platonic, relationship with my husband. I strongly desire to stay together for the sake of our child, who I believe will benefit from two happy and whole parents, for my husband who seems to need my support more than ever and for myself, as I do enjoy the stability and everyday kindness that he brings to my life. If we can get there without driving me completely insane, then I think we have a chance at something.

KK you're not exasperating anyone. You're simply sharing your story and I think you're very brave to do so. I'd encourage you to keep sharing your journey, either on this thread or your own. If I may make a suggestion, I'd recommend you take a few minutes to finish the following sentences: 

Marriage for me means...
Love/intimacy for me means...
This is the relationship I deserve...

2. My primary issues with him are around his denial and repression which leads to angry, passive aggressive behavior, emotional abuse, etc.. We are meeting with a counselor and I am pinning my hopes on full honest disclosure so we can stop discussing the issue of his sexuality and start dealing with it in terms of impact on our lives.

I hope counselling helps you two work through your issues. Based on my own experience and from what I've read here, two things will likely happen. The first, more positive, is that counselling with help him accept his homosexuality, apologize, and work through your issues. If, however, your husband suffers from full-blown narcissistic personality disorder due to being (partially) gay-in-denial, there is a second and perhaps more negative possibility. He may refuse to go to counselling or, once there, he may simply shut down rather than participate. If your husband continues to deny his same sex attraction, blames you, or portrays himself as a victim, you might consider going to counselling alone. Regardless, I'd recommend you inform the counselor that your husband may be a gay-in-denial narcissist so that he/she is well prepared for your sessions. Many mental health professionals have allowed themselves to be manipulated (if not recruited) by wily narcissists. 

3. There was a short, lovely period where he'd been so honest and vulnerable and I felt like we had a real chance of making it work. I just want to see if it is possible to get back there. Divorce is a permanent state - if I have to accept the possibility of failure as the price for giving it more time to work out, I think it's worth it. Whatever his issues may be, he isn't a bad person, just struggling. I love him and want him to be happy, so if I can find a way to help him without losing myself, I want to try to do that. I hope this explains some of my reasoning.

Your husband is very lucky to have such a kind and caring spouse. I think you're approaching this from a very healthy perspective. I'd recommend reading up about narcissism in preparation for your counselling sessions. A very informative book is "The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists" by Eleanor Payson. Perhaps other members can recommend other books. 

Good luck KK and JenS. I hope this post helps in some small way my friends. Thanks again for sharing. 
 

Thank you for sharing Nurse33. I'm sorry you've found yourself here. I'm afraid no one can confirm whether your husband is gay or straight. However, you shared some things that might be red flags, namely:

​1. A sexless marriage.
​2. Male friends more important than you.
​3. You're in marriage counselling.
​4. Angry response to "flamboyant" gay men.
5. You are here posting.

​These may suggest some form of same sex attraction but aren't conclusive. With regards to #5, don't underestimate the power your own intuition. That should guide you more than my opinion or anyone else's opinion. If, however, your husband didn't want to go to counselling, and once there blamed you, or refused to discuss the gay thing, these too would suggest he may be gay-in-denial. I'd recommend you share more about your story, either here or on your own thread. Whatever works for you. Here are some examples of gay husbands in denial:

1. He watches gay porn.
​2. He travels a lot for work.
​3. He's obsessed with his appearance (like working out for example).
​4. He suffers from anger, depression, or insomnia.
​5. He's had affairs with men.
​
If you can provide additional details, perhaps I and the other members can try to help you out. Thanks for posting Nurse33. That took a lot of courage. Please take care of yourself.   

Last edited by Séan (January 31, 2017 12:02 pm)

He does travel frequently for work, but that is part of his job. I know where he is going, I see the flight and credit card receipts. He is actually gone now. I did ask him, if he was. His response was Wow. No I'm not gay. And it actually bothers me that you ask. You could certainly ask anyone I know.

JenS wrote:

Thank you Sean, for your analysis of what I am encountering as I move to end the marriage.   So this leads me to my next questions which is:   how does a non-disordered, peace loving, conflict averse individual like myself manage to divorce a GID narcissist who is refusing to participate an an amicable divorce and essentially ramping up emotionally manipulative behaviours and dragging children into the conflict rather than protecting them?  And doing this specifically to leverage me.   How do I cultivate my inner bitch (who I've never met come to think of it) to finish this thing before I get depressed or become broke?   Thoughts? 

I divorced a raging narcissist.   It was especially hard in the very beginning because I did not know what a narcissist
was.    In her rage and stupidity of trying to make the financial conundrums my problem  I think I found my inner bitch (so to speak).   She was treating me so badly and so morally wrong on so many levels...I think it gave me resolve.  Also.. the strength I received from my support system (family,lawyer, priests, therapist, psychiatrist, the local SSN folks)...   you can tell I was not ashamed to ask for help.

I helped create the hell (so to speak) by refusing to leave my home..  this was not my problem I decided.. I had done nothing wrong..  I was not going to leave the home so she could say I abandoned her and the kids.  So she could have her girlfriend move in while I paid for the home... where would she live? ... not my problem.    But it was hell.. complete silence between us..save for rage and cursing from her.   It was a toxic environment for the kids but I tried to be strong for them.    I would not recommend it but it was the only financially viable option for me.   It also helped my lawyer...if she wanted me out  or to leave...sign a divorce settlement.  The settlement was important to me  not just because of the home and money but because it included a legal parenting arrangement..  Had I left the home with no parenting arrangement in place I would have never seen my kids again..  

Toward the end I was physically afraid of her with her getting madder and madder.  My ex never did follow through with restraining orders and having the police remove me..    I always tried to stay in another room less I get things thrown at me or she try to get physical.

It takes an experienced lawyer and a lot of strength and resolve to divorce a narcissist.    I would not wish it on my worst enemy..  But I did do it...it was hell on earth.    I tried to remember (see the quotes thread)  that is was a valley or season (in gay hell).   It would not be forever.. 
Wish I could offer more strength and knowledge.    

Last edited by Rob (January 31, 2017 10:17 pm)

Séan wrote:

 I remember one straight spouse posting on this thread that she used irrefutable proof he was gay in her divorce proceedings to get a fair settlement.

I used this strategy to great success in my divorce.  Actually, I never had to go that far.  My ex clearly didn't want the reason for our divorce to be public so all I had to do was mention a couple times early in the process that if we did things amicable and through mediation everything remains private.  If we go to trial and have to involve a judge in the decision making, then everything becomes public record.  She didn't want it to be public, so I used that as leverage.. and honestly, I pushed on that lever just a little bit early on and only had to remind her once or twice later in the process that the lever even existed.. 

Figure out what he's afraid of and just let him know that you know..  That will most likely be enough to keep him amicable.  

Unfortunately divorce becomes a business transaction..  For some it becomes war.   Use your partner's weaknesses against him to ensure a favorable outcome.  If this means letting him know that you will out him in a public divorce trial..  then let him know you are not afraid to do that.   I bet he'll  be more willing to negotiate privately after that.