foreverfooled, you can't afford not to consult an attorney. If you have been married many years it is not up to your husband to continue decide the conditions of your life when you have decided life with him has become intolerable. You have legal rights and you need the advice of an attorney in the state or province where you live so you know what they are and how to assert them.

When my gay ex decided he wanted out of the marriage he thought that he could give me the mortgaged house that I could not afford to keep and that I could sell it and keep all the proceeds while he'd keep all his pension. He was so wrong. We did sell the house and split the net proceeds but his pension was worth much than he (probably honestly) realized.  I am now receiving my half plus alimony and life is good.

Do not move out. You get one shot at this and you need to get it right. 

Thank you KK and others for writing. I'm so very sorry you've found yourself in this situation KK. Like the other straight wives here, you deserve better. I hope you don't mind but I'd like to review a few things you've written because they very clearly describe the behaviour of a gay-in-denial narcissist. Narcissism is simply an extreme form of self-centredness and, given my own history and the stories I've read here, it appears to be a common mental disorder among men who marry women to hide their homosexuality. What's striking is how similar gay-in-denial husbands act and the response from their kind/caring straight spouses. For example:

1. Lying: ​"My husband insists he is bisexual. However, when watching gay porn and fantasizing about gay activities, he has no trouble getting and maintaining an erection to orgasm."

2. Blaming/Projecting: "He has also said...that he is gay and is not interested in my body (specifically my vagina) and that he never wants to have sex with me again, and never did in the first place...He has a low libido to begin with and I am not sexually aggressive...however now he is denying [he is gay]...claiming that somehow I have a 'gay agenda' and I am forcing him to be gay or that I made him gay, that he is bi and I should just accept it at face value, that our marital problems or his medical issues somehow made him not want me physically, or that he does want my physically, or that we are both just too tired from our child rearing (admittedly not untrue)."

​3. Gaslighting/Making spouse crazy by saying two different things: "However, in more recent conversations/arguments he has said that it was 'part of the fantasy' and that he does desire me physically...He has a low libido to begin with and I am not sexually aggressive (the opposite, actually)..."

​4. The angry (and agressive) victim: ​"And we are going to a counselor next week because he had an outburst of anger and implied suicidal thoughts which he claims are due to over consumption of wine, but now when I made the appointment he is angry and says that our marital problems are half my fault (which I don't deny) and that I poisoned the counselor against him by stating that the appointment was to deal with his coming out...His constant criticism of me and my appearance, apparent moodiness/random explosions of anger, etc."

​5. A confused yet compassionate straight spouse: "I...should have been braver. We discussed an open relationship and I encouraged him fully, intending to support him 100% during this tough time.​ I don't even know anymore.​..[he] says that our marital problems are half my fault (which I don't deny)...I love him more than I've ever loved anyone, though I'm not an especially romantic person. I want him to be happy but I feel like I'm losing my heart, mind and sense of self."

​First and foremost KK, I want you to know that you are not the problem. HE IS. And he's always been the problem, not you. The only problem you have is your lying, gay-in-denial, narcissistic husband. You shouldn't feel guilty about wanting a husband who loves, desires, and respects you. Why? Because you deserve all of these things. If your husband were bisexual, he'd still find women like his wife sexually attractive. My second point is that no straight man needs to watch gay porn to get aroused. Clearly your husband  is gay and even admitted it to you in a moment of weakness. From what you shared, you've known this for years. One of the most difficult and confusing aspects of a person with a "narcissistically defended ego" is that they literally cannot accept, see nor acknowledge negative things about themselves. One moment he's gay, but then bi. He shows honesty and vulnerability one moment, and then wrongly blames you for his problems. He wants therapy and then a biased counsellor becomes your fault. Narcissists almost always choose kind and caring partners. There is even a word for the partners of narcissists: empaths. KK I think you are in an emotionally abusive relationship.

So what to do now? You've made a very brave first step by coming here and sharing your story. That took a lot of courage. Now I'd recommend you stop trying to fix this broken man. I urge you to focus 100% on yourself for the coming months. That means: getting tested for sexually transmitted diseases (because there is a good chance he's been cheating on you all these years); sharing here perhaps by starting your own thread; reaching out to the straight spouse network to find contacts or meetings in your area; and contacting other straight spouses. With regards to therapy, he clearly doesn't want to go so f*ck it. Fine! You should go to share your story and work through your feelings. I'd urge you to ask the therapist about narcissism because while I am a recovering narcissist/*sshole, I am not a mental health professional. So what I've shared is mostly opinion based on my own experience and what you've shared. I'm just a gay ex-husband who did a lot of the terrible and self-centred things you've shared. 

​The other thing you can do is take care of your health. Getting tested for STD/STIs is so important. You need to know you haven't caught anything from him because there is a very high likelihood he's been cheating. That may be a shock I know but your health is the most important thing. For the next month, try to get lots of sleep, perhaps by moving into a separate bedroom, eat well, and exercise. Living with a gay-in-denial husband is emotionally and physically exhausting for the straight spouse. Why? Because you're doing all the work for yourself AND your gay husband. JK also shared about this in her last post. You deserve a break. Call a friend. Get a massage. Go out for a girls night. Taking a break from his issues is the first step towards seeing things more clearly.

​I hope you don't mind me quoting your post. If yes, just let me know and I'll gladly remove this post. I hope that helps in some small way. 

Last edited by Séan (January 26, 2017 5:38 am)

I read so many people's experiences here - and their lying gay spouse's descriptions of why they do/did things, (like I told you I didn't like your vagina because it was part of my fantasy), and all I can think of is that we'd be WAY better off if we all could learn to shout the word "BULLSHIT!!!" at the top of our lungs.  HOW do they expect us to believe this stuff?  WHY do we believe it?  I guess because we're so beaten down that we're looking for a rope to cling to, and them offering us dental floss seems better than nothing at all.  But you know what?  We have brains, and voices.  And it's okay to say, "That's bullshit.  I don't believe that, and I resent that you think I'm so stupid that I would."  It wouldn't necessarily solve any problems in the relationship for us to say this, but it would sure go a long way toward us not feeling so confused and dizzy over the whole thing.  Sometimes you have to respond with what your best friend would say for you, if he/she were in the room.  I'm dead serious here.

Kel

Last edited by Kel (January 26, 2017 11:28 am)

Sean,Rob, Kel and others, I just wanted to say thank you. Thank you for taking the time to read and thoughtfully reply to mine, and so many other people's, heartbroken and confused and angry tirades. It's a sorely needed dose of sanity at a crazy time.

Right now I am holding onto the core that he is either gay or bi and not sexually interested in me, because this is what I know to be true. He has said he is bi and gay, multiple times in different circumstances. He surfs and gets off to gay porn, and though he claims otherwise, I've not seen him successfully get off without it in years. He desires sexual relations with a man, though he claims not an emotional one (may be true), he has said in multiple instances and situations that he does not desire me physically, never had and never will (though outside the intimate moments he sas he likes to perform oral on me, but it is not my preference). At one point when we were still trying for penetrative sex we got him hard with gay porn/fantasy, etc. and then he pressed his hard penis on and a little inside me and he immediately lost his erection and said he was sorry he just doesn't want to have sex with me anymore, maybe he never did, and he isn't ever going to again. He has said horrible things to me and about me and in his moments of clarity and honesty I feel like he understands the years of heartbreak and despair he (possibly unwittingly) put me through, but whenever I try to reach that clear eyed side of him, he gets angry and defensive and attacks me. And of course I feel hurt and defensive and that rarely gets us anywhere, but I know he has it in him to see - he has not cheated (I sincerely believe that) and he has had moments of vulnerable honesty and kindness where he has apologized and been generally whole and human and flawed like all of us, but most of the time he is so brittle and angry and I just don't know how to cope.

I feel confident in my facts and interpretation and I hope to present it all to the counselor. Unfortunately whenever we discuss the appointment, he again becomes angry and defensive stating that this isn't just about him it's my fault too, etc. Today I asked if he had a friend he could confide in, so that he would feel more supported and maybe less defensive, and he said he doesn't need one, there's nothing to talk about and he wouldn't discuss our sex lives with a friend anyways (which us not unfair - I only have one friend I am that comfortable with and I suspect it's harder for guys).

In any event, I worry for him because if I tell him the unvarnished truth (the idea of having sex with someone who doesn't desire me physically turns me off) then he is going to feel very attacked and disconnected. He keeps pushing for intimacy lately, I assume to prove something or because he knows I will demurr, as I have. I was willing in the past to perform oral on him because it was a way for him to feel connected and secure in my support, and I'm sort of still willing to do that, but not under the pretense of denying his preferences and certainly not if he thinks I am going to take the blame for our marital issues. I'm not perfect, far from it (I am quite controlling with money matters and severely lacking in romantic tendencies, among other things) but fixing those issues will not address what I view as the underlying problem in our marriage.

I actually didn't realize I still had so much to say. I guess the issue is I don't want to abandon him when he most needs support, and I don't especially want a divorce, but somehow I feel like if he wanted to leave then at least he would feel like he had some control/confidence that might carry him through this tough time? I don't really know how much more I can take, emotionally. For some reason the fact that he keeps claiming he is bisexual and really does want sex with me just makes me feel hurt and frustrated and angry and suffocated all at once. Which makes no sense. God this sucks.

In any event I actually did just come on here to say thank you. I appreciate every word of reply from everyone and the knowledge that I am not alone. Sean, you give me hope for my husband. I hope he can eventually come to the same content, comfortable place you have found.

Thank you all.

KK,

I'm going to challenge you to think about what you're hoping for at this point.  I think we get to a point where we lose sight of that and start grasping for straws, because it's better to hope for something than to give up.  I totally get that.  Been there, done that.  However, it's worth looking at the big picture sometimes, or we miss the forest for the trees, as they say.  What I'm about to say may sound harsh, but I believe that only when we're REALLY honest with ourselves do we get anywhere.  And unless you like living in the place you're at now, you've got to go somewhere, right?

I think what you're subconsciously hoping for is for him to suddenly become more open, honest, vulnerable and pliable, so that the two of you can get down to the truth of the matter, and you can work from there.  He would also need to let go of his fears and anger to do that.  But at this point, I think you know in your heart of hearts what is underneath all that fear, anger, guardedness and maneuvering; he's gay.  HE'S.GAY.  That's what's underneath all this muck.  If you DID know that beyond a shadow of a doubt, how would that change your outlook?

I didn't know my ex was for sure and certain gay when I threw in the towel and asked for a divorce.  I only knew that I wasn't getting what I wanted, I was clear about what I wanted and needed, and he (for whatever reason) couldn't or wouldn't deliver.  At some point, I'd had enough.  I determined I couldn't endlessly go on not having love, desire and intimacy in my marriage - no matter WHAT the reason.  So I walked.  It was only after that point that I learned that him being gay was the reason for all of the aforementioned being missing.  And I felt BETTER - because I knew that no matter how hard and long I tried, it was never going to solve the base issue.  And I could walk away feeling like I didn't need to keep wondering if I'd given it my all, and for long enough.  Going on any longer would have just been banging my head against the wall.

Now,..... some people still have hope after they know the truth.  However, I'm not sure how they know that they have the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.  After all, you're dealing with someone who has hidden the truth from you at all costs.  The truth they tell you now is what they think you can handle, and what will get them what they want.  They tend to do the truth in stages, in one part because you can't handle the whole truth in the beginning.  And in part because as they are allowed to do more of what they want, they come to new realizations about what they truly want.  It's like eating dessert first before dinner.  If given the chance, most kids would take that and it would be enough.  But eventually, they'd want ONLY dessert FOR dinner - no actual food.  They may or may not have know that up-front - because who would have ever thought of that possibility at the onset?  But once it becomes a possibility, they will be angry for having any substance pushed upon them once they know what they COULD be getting.  It's much more complicated than that, but you get the picture.  My point here is that even when you finally think you are getting the whole truth, you won't know that to be true.  And that just wouldn't have worked for me.  Once he lost my trust with his lies and deception and silence, I couldn't build on that any longer.  I needed that for a base - the base of "I promised to stay with him" wasn't big enough any longer.  It was both of us all in, all along, or I couldn't do it.  And clearly he was on his own side for a loooooong time.

But let's just say for the sake of the argument that you're getting the whole truth, and you can be sure of that.  So,... what's the actual truth?  The actual truth is that he has desires for his sexual and intimate life that run outSIDE of the marriage.  He doesn't just think about these things occasionally but feel fulfilled with what he has.  He has these things so embedded at this point that he can no longer be excited by you and your body and his connection with you.  And that's NOT your FAULT.  I think when we realize this, at first we're sad, and then we try to fix it.  YOU.CAN'T.FIX.IT.  Hell, HE can't even fix it!  It just..... IS.  So the truth is that he wants others outside the marriage for fulfillment.  Is that the kind of marriage you want?  You want an intimate life where you are maybe - possibly one PART of what fulfills him?  Does that work for you?  If so, WHY?  If you were allowed to do the same (fulfill your desires outside the marraige), then MAYBE you could make that work - if you were both completely honest with each other, didn't tend toward jealousy, and basically had a flower child approach to the world.  You shouldn't have to try to become that type of person just to make this work - just to keep this person who truthfully, just isn't that into you.

For me, I wanted it all.  I wanted to be totally into my spouse/lover/friend, and have him feel the same way.  I know my current husband can see other women, and maybe even sometimes gets excited by their bodies.  I'm not wearing rose-colored glasses here.  But there's a huge difference between that and him feeding that desire and then feeling like he needs those other women, and then moving toward having them, all the while pushing me further and further away.  That's bullshit.  And I'm worth more than that. YOU are, too.  We all are, hon.  And you can have it, but probably not with this man.  And there is literally nothing you can do about that except embrace that and move on.  It's not easy.  But you'll never find what you're looking for with the man who has shown you and told you repeatedly that he's just not that into you.

I'm sorry if that was painful. 

Kel