jkpeace wrote:

Sean & Dancerbeck,

Excellent and far-too-logical posts.  I agree 100%.  My favorite line, from Sean, "Why is homosexuality treated like some strange "hall pass" that excuses years of bad behaviour? Why does the gay thing so often motivate couples to re-set the relationship and try again?"    

I have nothing to add, but I think I will reread both of your posts.  

 

I gave my then wife many hall passes over the years for her narcissism.. But none for gayness..at least none that I saw.   My marriage unraveled quickly (over the last 2 years)  when I found she was having an affair and she suddenly stopped coming near me physically in anyway..like a light switch.  I knew what she was doing but she would not admit to it...only that she suddenly, after decades, didn't like to be touched ?    It was bizarre and crazy..ie.  "I don't like you touching me...oh but I'm not having an affair".     

I gave no hall passes to that..   I think there is a limit we all have.     The ones that hang on for years...they must truly love those spouses or greatly fear life without them...    Either way they have great strength...  I could not do it..I would physically shake with the moral violation and inhumane treatment.

 To withdraw all physical and emotional contact from someone that you were sworn and vowed (before God)  to be loyal too ,  and after years..   it takes an especially horrible person. (sorry Shaun)     That our spouses could do it with the ease of brushing their teeth...  it was and still  is horrifying.    I've distanced myself now from my ex..  but in the beginning it was totally against my core nature to withdraw all care, empathy and love from her.   It changes us..        

 

Sean, you asked,

"​My question is: if you're already with a lying, cheating, abusive and manipulative husband who hasn't had sex with you for years, shouldn't you divorce? Why is homosexuality treated like some strange "hall pass" that excuses years of bad behaviour? Why does the gay thing so often motivate couples to re-set the relationship and try again"

I think it's very unsettling to try on the marriage once it's out, in either they have been caught or they have admitted to SSA. For many that don't get the conformation it is tricky I'd think. For myself I have been with this man all my adult life, close family, kids and grandchildren too. I feel programmed almost as to why I am still with him. I never got an admittance or absolute proof of tgt. Money is tight and we both agree our marriage is not a marriage but a living arrangement at this point. I don't feel at this time I can leave and I am done trying on the marriage as in how I thought a marriage between two loving adults might be. I cannot imagine ever having sex again with him.. In my early 50's now and I am scared as to what might await me. I have seen others in long term marriages leave (not for tgt) and their lives are never good, usually it ends up worse for them. I never felt our marriage was normal in most ways, no loving touches, no holding hands, no gifts or very few ever on special forgotten days, alot of anger on his part, sex was not intimate the way I would see and hear others speak or it. It was more like porn looking back. Too many questionable friends of his and even some that he had told me were gay but later denied saying it. His best friend seems very much to be GID and we've argued plenty on him and his visits.. but he still comes around. I've seen a lot that doesn't add up in anyway other than my husband is GID, and I know he hates that i see these things. If he is, he will never tell me. He has always over the years blamed me for us never having the marriage most dream of. He has even asked me why I needed romance! When I look back at those many arguments now.. I realize it was him deflecting me away from the truth that he "couldn't love me that way" for WHATEVER reasons. Other than that one issue, I shouldn't be with him in either case as clearly he doesn't love me the way a man should love his wife, never has imo. I left him a few years back and ended up coming home at his request and also as I lost the place I had to stay because of his tricks. He never tried when I came back. He has told me to go a bunch since then, but I cannot when I am without financial help from him. And he will not ever give that, save I take him to court with paid lawyer that I don't have the money to pay. It's rough. One day at a time is how I live and I am thankful for the ones I love and that love me back.
 

Last edited by foreverfooled (January 14, 2017 3:01 pm)

Thanks for sharing Rob. Foreverfooled I'm so sorry you're in such a terrible situation. You deserved much better. Given what you shared, I've noticed a pattern with gay/straight marriages. These days, it appears that men who marry women often admit to being bisexual or having same-sex attraction (SSA) before ​they marry. I've read about this here with husbands in their 20s and 30s. This would tend to suggest younger men are more comfortable with their sexuality perhaps because society is now more open and accepting towards these kinds of feelings. When I read posts from straight women who appear to be younger, the story is often one of, "Well I knew he'd had sex with men before we married, he now identifies as gay, we still get along, and so we're going to divorce as amicably as possible." Men like me in their 40s, however, are from a generation that straddles the 'don't ask don't tell' period. We grew up hearing terrible things about homosexuals and suddenly found ourselves in a more tolerant society. I struggled for years before coming out but, once out, my friends, family and even my ex-wife were very loving & supportive. Bless them all. And yet, I struggled with my identity because in the 80s and early 90s gay was represented as perversion, getting AIDS, and a childless/lonely life. These are the ghosts of my upbringing. Foreverfooled has bravely shared her story and I believe it accurately represents the 50+ generation. These men are from an even more homophobic time when gays and lesbians were often arrested, fired, or maligned. As such, they often continue to live in a strange mixture of fear and denial. When these men marry, I've often read about a long-term 'friend' who is a lover, often another gay-in-denial man. While I believe we can come out at any age, I think the longer we wait the harder it gets. The denial becomes part of our DNA it seems.

​When we're in our 20s or 30s, I guess we still have most of our lives in front of us. I'm now in my mid-40s which I consider to be the tipping point between divorce or stay. Before divorcing, I very much struggled with the idea of spending my life alone. I still thought of being gay as a lonely life. But like Rob described, I just couldn't physically remain in my marriage anymore so I chose divorce. I was so depressed, angry, and sad. I was toxic and this toxicity was killing my (then) wife emotionally and destroying the lives of our three innocent children. Now just two years post separation and 18 months post divorce, my kids have made an incredible recovery and I get along very well with their mother. It's not perfect but it's progress and it's a hell of a lot better than the sham of a marriage I created and perpetuated.

​My question is: can anyone share their story of divorcing in your 50s? Do you agree with what I wrote? I'd love to read about what you think.  

Last edited by Séan (January 14, 2017 11:40 pm)

Rob, thank you for your heartfelt post. It does hurt when u are being abused by the very person who made vows to you.I am so sorry that ur spouse treated you in such an abusive way.

Sometimes i believe  it to be second nature to these supposed humans. Thank you for the advise as to remember i am walking through the valley..but no part of it. I have hope and will not lose  such. One step at a time, however. small...Thank you Rob. Hugs to you and keep strong!

I've just read Jillian's heartfelt post. I hope she and her children will be ok...without the gay-in-denial husband. 

I agree with you JK. The gay man who chooses to marry a straight woman often has a coming out process that looks a lot like mental illness...or perhaps the evolution of an addiction. Whether we define gay husbands like me as deranged, mentally ill, narcissists, or simply evil doesn't really matter. What matters is that the straight spouse and children are safe and free from the constant mental abuse while he figures out his sexuality. 

Having been through the process myself, I'm happy to share my experience. I started feeling an attraction to boys around age 6. I didn't come out until age 40 and dated girls to convince myself I was straight. I met a girlfriend age 18, lost my virginity to her, and married in my late 20s. I've struggled with my sexuality my whole life. While in the closet, I started watching gay porn around my early 30s. (This coincided with the advent of high-speed in-home internet.) Looking back, I think this was when I started to break down mentally. During this time, I also started to develop a severe case of narcissism or perhaps a split personality. I've often read that narcissism is the narcissist's defense against feelings of inadequacy or shame. Eventually porn just wasn't enough. I first had sex with a man, a gay escort, on a business trip in my late 30s. At this point, I became a full-blown narcissist. I was self-centred, manipulative, dishonest and completely ignored my wife's feelings. After having sex with a man for the first time, I was no longer interested in sex with my wife. I hired even more male escorts because I thought I needed sex. What I really wanted was intimacy with a man, but the gay (male) community often mistakes hook ups for intimacy so I was sleeping with countless men. And when that wasn't enough, I started using hook up apps like Grindr. When my wife finally confronted me and I came out to her, I was a sex addict, a porn addict, and a toxic narcissist. I also suffered from depression, insomnia, and migraines. I seriously contemplated suicide as a way out. 

Four things changed me: first coming out to my (then) wife, later my family, and finally friends. The second thing that changed me was getting professional help. Third, after limping along for 18 months post disclosure, my wife and I separated, then divorced in September 2015. I asked for the divorce...one of the only correct decisions I made at the time. And the fourth thing that helped me, and continues to help me, was posting here. Seeing all of this from the straight spouse's perspective has given me greater insight into how my wife and children suffered. 

So what's my point? There is nothing a straight spouse can do to help a gay-in-denial narcissistic husband. While going through gay adolescence, I was both toxic and radioactive. My (then) wife made the right decision to protect herself and our three children from me. I was then left alone to sink or swim. I chose to swim but it took a hell of a lot of time to work through decades of mental sh*t to get to where I am today. But I had to do it alone...and in hindsight, it was the best thing for me. It wasn't always smooth sailing for my ex-wife and three kids post separation. I made lots of mistakes but we're now two years following separation and eighteen months following divorce and we're healing. 

So what does this mean for straight spouses? Given my experience, I think the first step is to accept straight spouses can't be a part of a gay husband's coming out process. You both need your freedom and by remaining emotionally connected to a damaged man, you'll just remain stuck. Focus on yourself and your children as my ex-wife did. If he's like me, your husband has to work through his issues on his own...perhaps with the help of his friends and family. If he's still in denial about his sexuality, even in the face of overwhelming evidence, the best you can do is protect yourself and your kids from his toxic narcissism.  

I hope that helps in some way my friends. 

Last edited by Séan (January 17, 2017 5:44 am)