Something Sean said gave me an idea about something I have been thinking about for a long time.

I am convinced that in the way many of us go about trying to find the truth, we end up shooting ourselves in the foot, without realizing that's what we are doing. I am specifically talking about that question: "Are you gay?"  It always brings forth a denial, and we inadvertently create another obstacle for ourselves - because in asking the question, we also alert our husbands/wives to our suspicions. And so it gets harder next time to ask the question. And the more we ask, the more defensive they become. And soon the gaslighting begins. And before long we're in the crazy spiral.

Sean, you said what seems to work better is to say it, don't ask it, and the way you described it makes complete sense to me. The question itself is a threat, and that's why it usually achieves the opposite of what we are looking for. This has been on my mind for a long, long time, but I couldn't figure out what to do about  it.

I saw in the blogs another guy who said pretty much the same thing you said; that he found it easier to open up to people who made it safe for him first, but asking it as a question typically shut him down and put him on his guard and made him suspicious of the person asking it. Someone asked him why her husband wouldn't come clean with her, even though he had come out to other people, and she was tossing out a few theories about him, and trying to psycho-analyze him, but the guy's answer was so obvious and simple: "Because he doesn't feel safe enough with you. If you already know, stop asking him and just say it." That made as much sense as anything; (I wonder if my wife felt the same way with me.)

Anyway, I did a very unscientific, no-where near comprehensive, and statistically not-at-all-valid query through these forums to see how many times the question came up in one form or another, vs how many times any of us just said it.  In other words, some version of "Are you gay?" vs some version of "I know you're gay."  I grabbed a few threads at random and counted whether it took the form of a question or statement. And this is what I discovered:

Made a statement such as "I know you are gay" to try to start a conversation

already suspected/knew      --- 5
had some proof to show      --- 2


Asked the question "Are you gay?" in some form:

won't "admit" it          ---15
want an "admission"       ---10
won't "confess"           --- 8
I need a confession       ---17
how do I confront him     ---25
                         =======
                             75
                           
That last one was especially telling, I thought. It's a natural enough reaction, but think about it. Why set it up as "how do I confront him/her?" vs "how do I get him/her to open up and talk to me?" (how many of us enjoy being "confronted" about anything?)
                       
That's roughly a 10:1 ratio, asking the question (which leads to denial, gaslighting, crazy making) vs making a statement. Almost all of us go about it the way that doesn't work and makes it worse, because we don't know a better way to do it. But we have had at least two gay men tell us now, on this website, what they think might work better. I'm listening, and I am imagining two approaches:

1. For the straight spouse who is trying to get to the truth:

Is there a way that those of us who have already been through the worst of it, maybe with Sean's guidance, and using our experiences, can come up with something like a DO and DON'T list for spouses who are still trying to get to the truth? I sure was none too successful, but I was grasping about in the dark for answers without a map or a light. I wonder if I had had more guidance up front, "DO THIS, NOT THAT" when talking to her, if it would have been less damaging and caused less pain.

What I've learned, I've learned in hindsight, a lot of it on my own, a lot of it in these forums, but I'm willing to put it out there if someone else can learn from my mistakes.

2. For the gay spouse who is about to drop a bomb on the unsuspecting straight spouse:

It seems to me there could be a similar guide for the gay spouses who are struggling to come out to their straight spouses. "DO THIS, NOT THAT" for gay spouses. I am sure lots of us here could give input to that one. "When you're ready to come out to me, do it this way, not that way..." Apologize. Own it. Take responsibility. Move out. whatever...  I doubt anything like that exists out there anywhere; at least, if it does, I haven't seen it. We're the ones who have been through it, at least from our side of it, we lived it, we're the experts at our experience, so if we can't come up with it, who else is going to do it?

We won't know whether it works or not unless we try it.